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Is Yianni the Second Best Ever?

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Cornell wrestles a MUCH MUCH weaker schedule than the Big Tens.  Y.D. has two narrow wins in NCAA finals.  He is NOT as dominant in folktyle as  freestyle, and nowhere near as dominant as so many other guys.  Dake benefitted from the same weaker schedule.  Both have risen to the occasion at NCAAs but there is zero doubt that Taylor was a better seasonal wrestler overall than Dake and, for example, Zain a better seasonal wrestler than Yianni.  

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Cornell wrestles a MUCH MUCH weaker schedule than the Big Tens.  Y.D. has two narrow wins in NCAA finals.  He is NOT as dominant in folktyle as  freestyle, and nowhere near as dominant as so many other guys.  Dake benefitted from the same weaker schedule.  Both have risen to the occasion at NCAAs but there is zero doubt that Taylor was a better seasonal wrestler overall than Dake and, for example, Zain a better seasonal wrestler than Yianni.  
Taylor is better than Dake? Zain better than Yianni? Seasonal wrestling?

Wtf?

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4 hours ago, dmm53 said:

Cornell wrestles a MUCH MUCH weaker schedule than the Big Tens.  Y.D. has two narrow wins in NCAA finals.  He is NOT as dominant in folktyle as  freestyle, and nowhere near as dominant as so many other guys.  Dake benefitted from the same weaker schedule.  Both have risen to the occasion at NCAAs but there is zero doubt that Taylor was a better seasonal wrestler overall than Dake and, for example, Zain a better seasonal wrestler than Yianni.  

Another fantasy win for Taylor over Dake.

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4 hours ago, dmm53 said:

Cornell wrestles a MUCH MUCH weaker schedule than the Big Tens.  Y.D. has two narrow wins in NCAA finals.  He is NOT as dominant in folktyle as  freestyle, and nowhere near as dominant as so many other guys.  Dake benefitted from the same weaker schedule.  Both have risen to the occasion at NCAAs but there is zero doubt that Taylor was a better seasonal wrestler overall than Dake and, for example, Zain a better seasonal wrestler than Yianni.  

As I’m reading this, it seems like even your standout champions can’t get respect from some people. Y.D, a two-time national champion, BUT the Finals wins were both “narrow.” Plus, his team’s schedule was MUCH MUCH weaker than the Big Tens. Sounds like Cornell wrestled in the NAIA.

And Dake, the only man to do a particular something, also benefitted from this MUCH MUCH weaker schedule. I guess he wouldn‘t have come close had he been a Buckeye, Wolverine, Spartan, or Nittany Lion.

Maybe I am missing the whole point. Dake and Y.D. may not be ALL that some are purporting them to be. But are they then that much less as others purport them to be?

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5 hours ago, dmm53 said:

Cornell wrestles a MUCH MUCH weaker schedule than the Big Tens.  Y.D. has two narrow wins in NCAA finals.  He is NOT as dominant in folktyle as  freestyle, and nowhere near as dominant as so many other guys.  Dake benefitted from the same weaker schedule.  Both have risen to the occasion at NCAAs but there is zero doubt that Taylor was a better seasonal wrestler overall than Dake and, for example, Zain a better seasonal wrestler than Yianni.  

If I understand you correctly, Yianni and Dake both were less dominant over weaker opponents than were Zain and Taylor over stronger opponents.  Yet Yianni just beat Zain (and Molinari), and Dake was 3-0 vs Taylor (not counting fantasy losses, of course).  What kind of monumental failure on the part of Zain and Taylor does that require?  How do you compare two "narrow" wins in NCAA finals to actual losses in the NCAAs by Zain and Taylor?

This year, Cornell wrestled the #2, 6, 11, 13, 13, 15, 18 and 19 finishers in the NCAA team race.  PSU wrestled the #2, 5, 9, 12, 13.  Everyone else outside the top 20.  You find that to be a MUCH MUCH weaker schedule than PSU?

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Ahahahahaha

Dake is something like 6-0 over Taylor over the last decade, but Taylor was a better "seasonal" wrestler.

Yianni, as a true sophomore, just beat Zain, a college grad,  in a style that Zain is an aged group world champ in, but Zain was the better wrestler.

This is insane people. Margin of victory doesn't always define dominance. Winners win. 

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31 minutes ago, klehner said:

This year, Cornell wrestled the #2, 6, 11, 13, 13, 15, 18 and 19 finishers in the NCAA team race.  PSU wrestled the #2, 5, 9, 12, 13.  Everyone else outside the top 20.  You find that to be a MUCH MUCH weaker schedule than PSU?

dmm53

Facts.  They will come back to get you.

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Yianni and Dake are both similar, in that they may not have the dominant scores in some of their matches like Taylor and Zain, but even in the close matches you never feel the outcome is in doubt. A 5-2 win for Dake or Yianni can have the same dominance as a 12-2 win for another top wrestler. They are always in great position and methodically pick their spots. I used to say Taylor was better than Dake regardless of their head to head, because I watched Taylor tech and pin his way through everybody not named Dake, and Dake was constantly wrestling tighter scored bouts in comparison. The older I got, the more I realized that Dake was never in danger, and his dominance came in different forms. Yianni is the same way. I think Yianni is the best technical wrestler in the entire NCAA right now. 

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If he goes undefeated and somehow ends up a world/olympic gold before graduating I'd give him #1. Cael lost as a true freshman it just didn't count on his record. If Yianni goes x-1 with a world medal/title at the end of it all he is easily ahead of Cael in my books. Eutake is another one that is super high on my list and still may be ahead of Cael but it's debatable of course. Different eras

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21 hours ago, bsharp2384 said:

 I think Yianni is the best technical wrestler in the entire NCAA right now. 

That's an interesting observation. Yianni always seems a step ahead of his opponent and that would explain why. He's certainly the best, or one of the best, scramblers in D1 as well.

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19 hours ago, Perry said:

If he goes undefeated and somehow ends up a world/olympic gold before graduating I'd give him #1. Cael lost as a true freshman it just didn't count on his record. If Yianni goes x-1 with a world medal/title at the end of it all he is easily ahead of Cael in my books. Eutake is another one that is super high on my list and still may be ahead of Cael but it's debatable of course. Different eras

Uetake never gets the credit he deserves from the wrestling community. I think it's because he's not really a member of the wrestling community over here (he lives in Japan) and a couple other factors. 1) he was never a "bonus point" guy, so he wasn't "flashy" like David Taylor, 2) he wrestled a long, long time ago. Very few people alive today ever watched Uetake wrestle in his prime.

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2 hours ago, TobusRex said:

Uetake never gets the credit he deserves from the wrestling community. I think it's because he's not really a member of the wrestling community over here (he lives in Japan) and a couple other factors. 1) he was never a "bonus point" guy, so he wasn't "flashy" like David Taylor, 2) he wrestled a long, long time ago. Very few people alive today ever watched Uetake wrestle in his prime.

Flo did rank Uetake #2 on their all time greatest college wrestlers list last year, so, he does get some modern recognition.  

He was truly great.  I personally haven't found a record of a single Uetake loss in any style/competition-- he went 3/3 undefeated at NCAA's and 2/2 Gold in the Olympics- giving up no offensive points in his first Gold run and beating 6 recent or soon-to-be World Gold medalists through the Japan Team Trials and the Olympics.  And that was with 2 more years of NCAA competition to go.

If you were to knock him as far as some sort of collegiate career rankings go, it would be because he was 21 yrs old in his first NCAA's appearance, so it's tough to know how he would have done as a 18, 19 or 20 yr old (he didn't wrestle any major tournaments if at all his freshman year as far as I can tell).  I suppose Stieber (21) is similar, and Dan Hodge was even older at just about age 23 in his first NCAA's due to military service (he did make the Olympics at age 20 and went 1-2).  

For those reasons, I tend to view Kemp and Snyder's accomplishments from ages 18-22 or so as a bit more impressive as they competed as true freshman and also had international success at very young ages (World Golds at 19 and 21 respectively).  (My personal preference is to take freestyle/international success into account when playing these thought experiments as to how these guys stack up against each other as NCAA competition levels can be so variable).

If Yianni is able to win out in NCAA competition, make a couple world teams, and perhaps medal, I think it could be very reasonable to argue for his career to be ranked above Cael's.  I tend to view the day in and day out competition at 141 and 149 as generally stronger than that at 184 and 197.  As a true freshman, in addition to the all too frequently referenced loss, I don't believe Cael wrestled actually wrestled very much high caliber collegiate competition (e.g. didn't compete at Midlands, etc.), and he took 7th in the Jr. World Trials that year (high school junior Damion Hahn took 3rd). Two years later I believe he took 6th at US Open and was knocked out early in the Olympic Trials.

That said, it would be extremely difficult for anyone to match Cael's collegiate dominance from ages 21-23 or so, and of course nothing in wrestling is guaranteed as recent NCAA's have shown re: great guys like Imar, Cenzo, and Mymar.  With these thought experiments, it's all about the personal criteria, of course.

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3 hours ago, TobusRex said:

Uetake never gets the credit he deserves from the wrestling community. I think it's because he's not really a member of the wrestling community over here (he lives in Japan) and a couple other factors. 1) he was never a "bonus point" guy, so he wasn't "flashy" like David Taylor, 2) he wrestled a long, long time ago. Very few people alive today ever watched Uetake wrestle in his prime.

It's also because he's a .... uhmm ... one of the folks from Japan.

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Is Yianni Diakomihalis the Second Best Ever?

No, his name is too ethnic and hard to spell in order to be listed among the greatest ever.  I'd suggest he change it to a more Americanized, but similar sounding name.  Something like Danny Maharis should do the trick.

Image result for yanni d wrestler  Image result for george maharis

New Cornell bio should be amended to read:

• Danny Maharis is the son of Bob and Gina Maharis and has two younger brothers.
• Danny is also the great nephew of actor George Maharis of the hit 1960's TV show, Route 66.
• He is enrolled in the College of Agriculture and Life Sciences.

Edited by HurricaneWrestling2

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2 hours ago, wrestlingnerd said:

It's also because he's a .... uhmm ... one of the folks from Japan.

Image result for yojiro uetake

“I have always loved Oklahoma. Every time I come back to Oklahoma I look down at the red ground through the window of the airplane and think, ‘Oh boy, I am back in Oklahoma.’ I scream in my heart every time. I get off the plane and I smell the Oklahoma wind, and see the big land. What a beautiful country it is.”

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When Yianni brings back a World Gold Medal this summer  then follows it up with an Olympic Gold medal next year then we can talk. Not so sure he is in the conversation yet.

 

Edited by Paul158
mispelled word

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On 5/3/2019 at 9:58 AM, bsharp2384 said:

Yianni and Dake are both similar, in that they may not have the dominant scores in some of their matches like Taylor and Zain, but even in the close matches you never feel the outcome is in doubt. A 5-2 win for Dake or Yianni can have the same dominance as a 12-2 win for another top wrestler. They are always in great position and methodically pick their spots. I used to say Taylor was better than Dake regardless of their head to head, because I watched Taylor tech and pin his way through everybody not named Dake, and Dake was constantly wrestling tighter scored bouts in comparison. The older I got, the more I realized that Dake was never in danger, and his dominance came in different forms. Yianni is the same way. I think Yianni is the best technical wrestler in the entire NCAA right now. 

Well put.  A guy not racking up bonus points doesn't by itself rule out him being an all-time great.  

The best example of this might be Dake not getting bonus points in his 2011 final against Molinaro -- a match of complete, utter, and infamous domination.  

Another example would be Dake's 2013 NCAA scores before the final:  3-0; 11-0; 13-0; 2-0.  Two majors, two regular decisions.  OK, that doesn't sound great, particularly compared to Taylor's four quick falls, but these were four straight shutouts with a focus on great mat wrestling, and he then won the final over the reigning Hodge winner, after spotting him a quick takedown -- with his mat wrestling.  If Dake had wanted to, I'm sure he could have frequently taken down and let go and racked up a lot more bonus points (I remember he decided to do this a couple of times in non-NCAA matches and the speed of the takedowns was shocking).  

The scores mentioned above were not those of a guy bonusing 80%+ of his matches, but understood in context, his dominance and greatness were crystal clear.

I would say that Yianni hasn't been  as dominant as Dake to this point in his career.  He's won a lot of close matches with amazing late clutch scoring -- which Dake didn't have to do as much.  But he has also had some matches like Dake where he showed brilliance in relatively low scoring matches where he was clearly better (such as against Demas, one of the best wrestled matches of this year's tournament, and perhaps the best example of your ranking him the best current technical wrestler).  

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