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Doing the most with the least

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Somewhat inspired by the “up and coming states” thread, I saw this article:

https://intermatwrestle.com/articles/21741

Missouri stood out to me because they had   3 guys ranked outside of the top 50 and 4 total outside of the top 30 that AA’d.  I’m not sure if it means they have good coaching or just MO is under appreciated because all 4 of those (which was all of their AA’s - Erneste, Eierman, Mauller, Lewis) were from MO.

Others:

OK State - 4 ranked 25 or worse (Picc, Geer, Weigel, White)

Minnesota - 2 ranked 70 or worse (Lizak and Skatzka)

Northwestern - 2 ranked 60 or worse (Rivera and Deakin)

Cornell - 2 ranked 60 or worse (Dean and Honis)

Michigan - 2 ranked 40 or worse (Pantaleo and Amine)

Iowa - 2 ranked 25 or worse (Young and Lugo)

Iowa State - 2 ranked 25 or worse (Degen and Miklus)

Moore was tOSU’s only AA ranked worse than 10 and Cassar was Penn State’s only AA ranked worse than 15, but Cassar and Foster were the lowest ranked champs

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On ‎3‎/‎31‎/‎2019 at 9:42 AM, AnklePicker said:

It means they have good coaching. If it was just this class it might be a MO thing but Coach Smith and Co have a proven track record. They’re very very good at coaching. 

 

22 hours ago, scribe said:

Seems like askren started the winning attitude there that never ceased. 

+1

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Much respect for Brian and Ben.  The FLO video shows Brian saw something in Askren that nearly no one else did.  Hat's off to him for identifying that talent and making the most of it.

It's a shame he couldn't get Ben on staff.   I would think he would have about as much recruiting power as anyone not named Sanderson and probably could even rival him.  I know Ben has a family and went where the money is, but he may very well have helped take Missouri from a constantly overachieving 6-10 team to a perennial top 5.

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Who does the least with the most? Stanford is my candidate.  Top 10 recruiting classes every year but they finished 39th this year with 5.5 team points.  Paul fox didn’t even qualify. Has that ever happened where a returning AA doesn’t even qualify? They never got world silver medalist Nathan butler on the awards stand.  Didn’t place McKenna as a sophomore. Of course they will get recruits - it’s one of the nicest places in the country to live.  But they sure aren’t doing anything with em 

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I love how there are threads discussing how Mizzou does the most with the least and how they under achieve every year.

(I know this is because they over perform their class rankings and under perform their seeds, but the dichotomy is amusing)

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4 minutes ago, Crotalus said:

I love how there are threads discussing how Mizzou does the most with the least and how they under achieve every year.

(I know this is because they over perform their class rankings and under perform their seeds, but the dichotomy is amusing)

Actually, they have still done quite well at NCAA's.  Over the past 5 years: 4th, 6th, 5th, 6th and 6th.

 

I do believe their seeds were a bit inflated due to the MAC schedule, but top 6 5 years in a row is pretty special.

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1 hour ago, DrStrange said:

Who does the least with the most? Stanford is my candidate.  Top 10 recruiting classes every year but they finished 39th this year with 5.5 team points.  Paul fox didn’t even qualify. Has that ever happened where a returning AA doesn’t even qualify? They never got world silver medalist Nathan butler on the awards stand.  Didn’t place McKenna as a sophomore. Of course they will get recruits - it’s one of the nicest places in the country to live.  But they sure aren’t doing anything with em 

Craig Henning from Wisconsin took second at nationals in 2007 and didn't qualify at a senior in 2008. Tyron Woodley from Mizzou was a 2x All American as a sophomore and a senior, didn't quality as a junior. Of course, this was back when coaches voted on the wildcards right after the tournament.

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48 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

Actually, they have still done quite well at NCAA's.  Over the past 5 years: 4th, 6th, 5th, 6th and 6th.

 

I do believe their seeds were a bit inflated due to the MAC schedule, but top 6 5 years in a row is pretty special.

I agree. As a Mizzou fan, I'd like to see them get into that top 3 once in a while. But they are so much better than prior to Brian Smith that there isn't much room for complaint. They do tend to have a few guys under perform every year, but Smith has been one of the best at turning unheralded guys into AAs.

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3 hours ago, DrStrange said:

Who does the least with the most? Stanford is my candidate.  Top 10 recruiting classes every year but they finished 39th this year with 5.5 team points.  Paul fox didn’t even qualify. Has that ever happened where a returning AA doesn’t even qualify? They never got world silver medalist Nathan butler on the awards stand.  Didn’t place McKenna as a sophomore. Of course they will get recruits - it’s one of the nicest places in the country to live.  But they sure aren’t doing anything with em 

BJ Clagon AA'd as a freshman and regressed over the years; didn't even qualify last year as a senior.

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10 minutes ago, yonz_g said:

BJ Clagon AA'd as a freshman and regressed over the years; didn't even qualify last year as a senior.

Nice recall. I'd like to add Connor Schram from Stanford to the list. That is 2 guys in one year from one program who placed at sophomores and then never again. Uncoaching at its finest. 

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16 minutes ago, DrStrange said:

Nice recall. I'd like to add Connor Schram from Stanford to the list. That is 2 guys in one year from one program who placed at sophomores and then never again. Uncoaching at its finest. 

Yet they ended up with very good recruiting classes the last two years and Borelli was COY. A mystery. 

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41 minutes ago, Idaho said:

Yet they ended up with very good recruiting classes the last two years and Borelli was COY. A mystery. 

Hey Genius, here is my original post:  

 

Who does the least with the most? Stanford is my candidate.  Top 10 recruiting classes every year but they finished 39th this year with 5.5 team points.  Paul fox didn’t even qualify. Has that ever happened where a returning AA doesn’t even qualify? They never got world silver medalist Nathan butler on the awards stand.  Didn’t place McKenna as a sophomore. Of course they will get recruits - it’s one of the nicest places in the country to live.  But they sure aren’t doing anything with em 

 

As I said, they get top recruiting classes every year due to school name and location (not because of wrestling), and they do next to nothing with those recruits. So thank you for making my point for me. They get the best and train em up to be darn near the worst. Most programs haven't had a guy place as a sophomore and then never place again. But Borelli pulled it off this year with 2 guys!! Not just 1. 

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Dan Muthler of Navy won in 1973. In 1974 he reached the NCAA quarters before losing, and failing to place.

In EIWA 1975, He lost to Lehigh's Pat Sculley in the Semis, then Consi Semi's to Princeton's Dennis Underkoffler. The first loss was expected,  The second only a slight upset. There were no Wildcards then, so he stayed in Annapolis 2 weeks later.  He was clearly not sick or injured (more than anyone else) unbelievably NCAA took EIWA qualifiers from 40 to 31.

Pat Sculley defeated Jim Bennett of yale who won NCAA 2 weeks later.

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2 hours ago, DrStrange said:

Hey Genius, here is my original post:  

 

Who does the least with the most? Stanford is my candidate.  Top 10 recruiting classes every year but they finished 39th this year with 5.5 team points.  Paul fox didn’t even qualify. Has that ever happened where a returning AA doesn’t even qualify? They never got world silver medalist Nathan butler on the awards stand.  Didn’t place McKenna as a sophomore. Of course they will get recruits - it’s one of the nicest places in the country to live.  But they sure aren’t doing anything with em 

 

As I said, they get top recruiting classes every year due to school name and location (not because of wrestling), and they do next to nothing with those recruits. So thank you for making my point for me. They get the best and train em up to be darn near the worst. Most programs haven't had a guy place as a sophomore and then never place again. But Borelli pulled it off this year with 2 guys!! Not just 1. 

  •  

Hey Dbag I was AGREEING with you   Why do you think I put “mystery”? 

Edited by Idaho

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7 hours ago, Crotalus said:

I agree. As a Mizzou fan, I'd like to see them get into that top 3 once in a while. But they are so much better than prior to Brian Smith that there isn't much room for complaint. They do tend to have a few guys under perform every year, but Smith has been one of the best at turning unheralded guys into AAs.

I remember when Smith first got to Mizzou.  This is especially true after the first or second year when he kicked Scott Barker off the team.  Most Mizzou fans were in an uproar.  There was so much negativity around him the first couple year.  He wasn't a big name coach, and when he booted Barker the Missouri Wrestling Forums were blowing up with very little good to say.  A few people liked the idea of him cleaning up the culture, but most people were not happy.  He had a very hard time recruiting top in-state talent.  Anyone that was top notch went elsewhere.  He picked up a few, but most of the bigger names were from out of state.  He got the Spates boys and Soredas.  Then he was able to eventually grab Askren and Pell. Then he got Raymond Jordan.  Those guys put some AA's on the books.  From there he started getting more of the better Missouri Kids.  After that and since he has been able to get and develop most of the top Missouri kids.  A few go elsewhere (i.e. Keshawn Hayes), but a majority of the top prospects stay home.  The one who I wish would have stayed was Ream.  He did a nice job for NDSU, but I would have liked to see how he would have developed at Mizzou. 

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6 hours ago, DrStrange said:

Nice recall. I'd like to add Connor Schram from Stanford to the list. That is 2 guys in one year from one program who placed at sophomores and then never again. Uncoaching at its finest. 

...back the f' up off of Borelli armchair 1/4 back .....

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5 hours ago, RichB said:

Dan Muthler of Navy won in 1973. In 1974 he reached the NCAA quarters before losing, and failing to place.

In EIWA 1975, He lost to Lehigh's Pat Sculley in the Semis, then Consi Semi's to Princeton's Dennis Underkoffler. The first loss was expected,  The second only a slight upset. There were no Wildcards then, so he stayed in Annapolis 2 weeks later.  He was clearly not sick or injured (more than anyone else) unbelievably NCAA took EIWA qualifiers from 40 to 31.

Pat Sculley defeated Jim Bennett of yale who won NCAA 2 weeks later.

Wow, depressing. The guy probably had visions of 3 titles dancing around in his head after his title. What happened to him? Assuming something traumatic happened.

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14 minutes ago, TobusRex said:

Wow, depressing. The guy probably had visions of 3 titles dancing around in his head after his title. What happened to him? Assuming something traumatic happened.

Nothing wrong. He won Nationals simply by hitting a Peterson for 5 in most every match. Not a common move at the time. Yeah, that move was not going to work against either Tom or Pat Sculley.  I guess his only loss going into nationals his Junior when Tom Sculley went up to beat him in the dual. At Nationals he was seeded 1 but Paul Gillespie of WestChester knocked him off in the quarters, I am told by hitting a Peterson. 1975 he must have lost to Bennett in a dual, Cause the Yalie was seeded 1, Muthler 2, P Sculley 3. (no way he was coming down in the Lehigh dual The joice would have been to be disassembled on the mat by Pat Sculley or on his feet by Mike Frick.     

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