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HokieHWT

More deserving of being a 4-timer

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2 hours ago, BamaGrappler said:

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Clearly, Amuchastegui got to the semis fair/square.  A decent leg turk, a good singlet grab here/there to keep your opponent on his back, ...and you're in.  Deserving/earned.

Weird that Ruth's left leg was injured, but his right leg took all of the abuse as the trapped leg.  It was crazy.  Until the 3rd period, still thought he would pull a rabbit of the hat.  Credit to Amuchastegui on the turns, but Ruth was literally tied down - or 'strapped' down, if you will.

I'd call that impeding Ruth's path to the 4.  That's a foul.
Grabbing headgear = okay (*ref: see Suriano vs. Fix).  Grabbing singlets = not okay (unless uncalled).

Ok, so you just want to give Ruth free wins in the Semis and finals?

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Many three and two timers not to mention a few one and no timers fared better internationally which means something.

I favor anyone who lost to someone who they clearly could have beaten and went o to beat but lost to. This means Snyder and Ruth for starters. Definitely Bo Nickal. Probably Kemp. Not Imar. Not DT. Possibly Banach. Maybe Nolf because he pinned Imar and lost right 2x. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, HokieHWT said:

The point of the thread was to try and bait people into proving that Ruth is the best PSU wrestler of all time. We sort of got there.

I would take Nickal all day long.  Nickal, Nolf, Taylor, Ruth, Zain in that order for me.

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19 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

Zain in particular. A first year redshirt and he would’ve been a 4 timer

Zain would have been a likely 0 timer if Pico didn't forgo college.

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20 hours ago, drag it said:

True, but Ruth got hurt pretty badly in the middle of the match he lost and had to default. He had controlled the early going, got the first takedown, and was ahead when he got hurt, after which he couldn't wrestle normally. He looked terrible trying to move.

 

 

Looked to me like he was down 9-2 when he hurt his left leg...

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9 hours ago, BamaGrappler said:

Untitled.png

Clearly, Amuchastegui got to the semis fair/square.  A decent leg turk, a good singlet grab here/there to keep your opponent on his back, ...and you're in.  Deserving/earned.

Weird that Ruth's left leg was injured, but his right leg took all of the abuse as the trapped leg.  It was crazy.  Until the 3rd period, still thought he would pull a rabbit of the hat.  Credit to Amuchastegui on the turns, but Ruth was literally tied down - or 'strapped' down, if you will.

I'd call that impeding Ruth's path to the 4.  That's a foul.
Grabbing headgear = okay (*ref: see Suriano vs. Fix).  Grabbing singlets = not okay (unless uncalled).

You realize at the time of the still picture singlet grab you show the score was already 9-2, and he scored no additional points after that.  Ruth got whooped fair and square.  Ruth did avenge it in the finals, but he got destroyed that match.  Give him a point for the singlet grab and he’s still down 9-3.

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19 minutes ago, Mokoma said:

You realize at the time of the still picture singlet grab you show the score was already 9-2, and he scored no additional points after that.  Ruth got whooped fair and square.  Ruth did avenge it in the finals, but he got destroyed that match.  Give him a point for the singlet grab and he’s still down 9-3.

Actually, the score was 7-2 even in the screen grab used...and from the screen grab you see the official signaling for 2nf (instead of technical violation) which moved the score to 9-2.

But I see your point.  And yes, I was kidding anyway.  All in fun.  That momentary snap didn't dictate what happened immediately before or after it.  Props to Amuchastegui.

 

5 hours ago, HokieHWT said:

The point of the thread was to try and bait people into proving that Ruth is the best PSU wrestler of all time. We sort of got there.

Yes.  And yes.  Call it a success.
Although you have to admit...while not the best PSU had all time, Ruth is/was/is pretty solid.

Edited by BamaGrappler

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1 minute ago, BamaGrappler said:

Actually, the score was 7-2 even in the screen grab used...and from the screen grab you see the official signaling for 2nf (instead of technical violation) which moved the score to 9-2.

But I see your point.  And yes, I was kidding anyway.  All in fun.  That momentary snap didn't dictate what happened immediately before or after it.  Props to Amuchastegui.

 

Yes.  And yes.  Call it a success.
Although you have to admit...while not the best PSU had all time, Ruth is/was/is pretty solid.

Yeah, you can see the referee holding 2, which occurred before the grab.  So it was 9-2.

I do agree Ruth was awesome and handled Amuchastegui the next time, but he certainly was no guarantee to win in the semis or possibly finals.  Reader was super tough that year.

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28 minutes ago, Mokoma said:

Looked to me like he was down 9-2 when he hurt his left leg...

It's not easy to tell because of the camera angle but what I see is Ruth controlling the match and leading in the middle of the first period. He then gets hurt badly enough to take injury time. He then gets looked at on his left side. Looks like at a minimum let shoulder. He then looks extremely ginger and gets into kind of a weird stance. He then can't keep in what for him looks like a pretty simple whizzer with that left shoulder, he just concedes the takedown which I don't think he ever did when not hurt. He then gets dominated and is unable to push up from the bottom and favoring his left side. At some point he shows acute pain in his left knee.  I can't watch the match and conclude that his complete inability to do anything after the injury time, and his opponent's domination of him, would have happened if whatever caused first period injury time didn't allow his opponent to dominate him -- a guy who was never dominated.

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3 minutes ago, Mokoma said:

Yeah, you can see the referee holding 2, which occurred before the grab.  So it was 9-2.

I do agree Ruth was awesome and handled Amuchastegui the next time, but he certainly was no guarantee to win in the semis or possibly finals.  Reader was super tough that year.

I agree and said in my original post that beating Reader in the final would have been difficult. But it's impossible for me to watch and conclude that the injury he sustained while in the lead wasn't a big part of the match.  That's based on the video. And the way he dominated the same guy next time (and the complete anomaly of Ruth being dominated) just makes this conclusion more logical. 

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1 minute ago, drag it said:

It's not easy to tell because of the camera angle but what I see is Ruth controlling the match and leading in the middle of the first period. He then gets hurt badly enough to take injury time. He then gets looked at on his left side. Looks like at a minimum let shoulder. He then looks extremely ginger and gets into kind of a weird stance. He then can't keep in what for him looks like a pretty simple whizzer with that left shoulder, he just concedes the takedown which I don't think he ever did when not hurt. He then gets dominated and is unable to push up from the bottom and favoring his left side. At some point he shows acute pain in his left knee.  I can't watch the match and conclude that his complete inability to do anything after the injury time, and his opponent's domination of him, would have happened if whatever caused first period injury time didn't allow his opponent to dominate him -- a guy who was never dominated.

He had gotten dominated earlier that year by Mike Letts so that part makes no sense.

Also, he seemed fine right after the first injury time and even tries throwing a headlock (which was illegal and should have been penalized) with that same left shoulder that supposedly is hurt.  I’m not saying he faked injury time but honestly he came back and took 3rd fairly easily so he couldn’t have been that hurt.

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I think your arguments are well put but really disagree.

The match took a 180 after injury time. Before he was active and terrific, then needed medical attention, then immediately was ginger and horrible. 

Not unheard of for someone to rebound after a break and treatment. 

The headlock I think supports my point. It was just as weak as the whizzer. Not consistent with a healthy attempt by the same sculpted guy who lost one match before this one and one other after it in his career.

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3 minutes ago, drag it said:

I think your arguments are well put but really disagree.

The match took a 180 after injury time. Before he was active and terrific, then needed medical attention, then immediately was ginger and horrible. 

Not unheard of for someone to rebound after a break and treatment. 

The headlock I think supports my point. It was just as weak as the whizzer. Not consistent with a healthy attempt by the same sculpted guy who lost one match before this one and one other after it in his career.

I'm not sure it was weak, but it was definitely illegal.

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6 minutes ago, Mokoma said:

I'm not sure it was weak, but it was definitely illegal.

I see the lame, illegal headlock as evidence of the distress he was in.  He went from wrestling well to wrestling, in the case of the headlock, bizarrely, right after injury time.  His stance, his stance, activity level, body language, and quality of wrestling all changed on a dime. 

Doesn't mean for sure he would have won this match, the semi, or the final if he hadn't gotten hurt before injury time.  Just means it affected the match.  Based on all the circumstances, though, my guess is that, without injury, he wins the quarter and the semi, and has a tossup matchup of titans in the final.  But you and others might see it differently in the enjoyable world of message boards.

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