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What was up with spencer Lee this year?

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This probably doesn’t apply to Lee, since he looked good in the last part of the season.

I knew a wrestler who was very dominant on the state and national level his first two years of high school. 

Starting in his junior year, he began to look sluggish and would gas badly in the 3rd period of most matches. He’d be up by 5 points or more going into the 3rd period and lose matches more often than not.

Fans were wondering what had changed with the kid. I think most thought he was smoking, not conditioning right, lost interest or a combination of all three. Whatever the reason, he looked like a completed different wrestler than the dynamo we’d seen previously  

After his senior season, he came clean in a newspaper article saying that he had lupus since his sophomore summer and he could only manage about 3-4 hard minutes of wrestling before his energy was gone. His coaches and teammates knew this, but they kept it secret so his opponents wouldn’t know. 

I don’t think any of us watching him ever suspected that he had something like this. 

Stories like his and Adam Frey’s remind me to never make final judgement til all the facts are out. 

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1 hour ago, scribe said:

Might have been wind cancer.

Rumor is Lee implemented a mental mind frame for the regular season he learned from Jimmy Gullibon as a youth at Young Guns.  Be disinterested and stay rested until Nationals.  Unfortunately Gullibon took his own approach too far.

Edited by portajohn

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Well whatever issues Spencer had, I hope that they are long since over. I hope that some day Spencer will be standing on the podium at the World's and Olympics. Preferably on top of the podium. 

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It’s a link to his Instagram profile page with the Pokémon trainer picture. The nerd in me loves that one of the nation’s baddest mofos is a Pokémon fan. 

Damn. I thought there was an announcement of him wrestling Freestyle season, lol. That picture is badass, tho.

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, wrestlingnerd said:

It’s a link to his Instagram profile page with the Pokémon trainer picture. The nerd in me loves that one of the nation’s baddest mofos is a Pokémon fan. 

Breaking news:....STOP....."nation's baddest mofos" generally weigh more than my sister....STOP.

I like Spencer, he's a great wrestler and seems like a great kid. Bad mofo? No sir.

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For whatever it’s worth, I recently spoke to a parent of one of Lee’s teammates.  He indeed was sick earlier in the year.  He struggled getting heathy, and balancing working out and conditioning while getting healthy.  It sounds like he was close, but still not full strength by nationals.  My prediction for next year, he’s even more dominant than he was at nationals his freshman season.

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8 hours ago, Wrestlingfan69 said:

For whatever it’s worth, I recently spoke to a parent of one of Lee’s teammates.  He indeed was sick earlier in the year.  He struggled getting heathy, and balancing working out and conditioning while getting healthy.  It sounds like he was close, but still not full strength by nationals.  My prediction for next year, he’s even more dominant than he was at nationals his freshman season.

I can totally believe this and agree. Even at nationals, I really don’t think he was at 100%. I hate excuses but in his case, it was obvious. I was looking forward to seeing what he could do in senior freestyle, but as I said on the international forum, I’d be surprised to see him wrestle this summer. 

Edited by wrestlingnerd
Formatting

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TnT have to protect Gilman, he's their poster child when it comes to their personal coaching philosophy. 

Sad to see one of only a couple US guys ever to win multiple World Titles before college not utilize valuable years of learning experience in the freestyle field. 

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The Hawkeyes have been trying to sell this same crap for years;  When one of their beloved wrestlers loses then he has something wrong with him that caused it. 

Let's examine just when Lee got his mysterious illness:

Nov- tech, tech, tech

Dec- maj, tech, fall, tech, tech, dec, loss

Jan- dec, fall, fall

Feb- maj, fall,fall,fall, lb fall

Mar-fall, maj, lb dec, tech, maj, fall, dec, dec

I don't see it.  His stats from last year are nearly identical.

2017-18.......9 falls.......8 techs.......1 maj......5 decs......2 losses

2018-19.......8 falls.......7 techs.......3 maj......4 decs.....3 losses

Edited by jammen
grammar

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2 hours ago, MrDream said:

TnT have to protect Gilman, he's their poster child when it comes to their personal coaching philosophy. 

Sad to see one of only a couple US guys ever to win multiple World Titles before college not utilize valuable years of learning experience in the freestyle field. 

Like they protected Ramos? What the heck are you even talking about?

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8 minutes ago, jammen said:

The Hawkeyes have been trying to sell this same crap for years;  When one of their beloved wrestlers loses then he has something wrong with him that caused it. 

Let's examine just when Lee got his mysterious illness:

Nov- tech, tech, tech

Dec- maj, tech, fall, tech, tech, dec, loss

Jan- dec, fall, fall

Feb- maj, fall,fall,fall, lb fall

Mar-fall, maj, lb dec, tech, maj, fall, dec, dec

I don't see it.  His stats from last year are nearly identical.

2017-18.......9 falls.......8 techs.......1 maj......5 decs......2 losses

2018-19.......8 falls.......7 techs.......3 maj......4 decs.....3 losses

Well, the stats you posted are worse than the ones from last year (and in a less competitive 125 than last year)... and if you look beyond the stats he did worse against the same opponents he once dominated.

 

So, I definitely see it.

Edited by AHamilton

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42 minutes ago, jammen said:

The Hawkeyes have been trying to sell this same crap for years;  When one of their beloved wrestlers loses then he has something wrong with him that caused it. 

Let's examine just when Lee got his mysterious illness:

Nov- tech, tech, tech

Dec- maj, tech, fall, tech, tech, dec, loss

Jan- dec, fall, fall

Feb- maj, fall,fall,fall, lb fall

Mar-fall, maj, lb dec, tech, maj, fall, dec, dec

I don't see it.  His stats from last year are nearly identical.

2017-18.......9 falls.......8 techs.......1 maj......5 decs......2 losses

2018-19.......8 falls.......7 techs.......3 maj......4 decs.....3 losses

Interesting. What do you have to say about the fact those 3 losses this year were against two ppl that he won by dec, dec, maj, fall last year. Also last year he had missed nearly an entire year from a not so mysterious knee injury. Any of that relevant or just the stats you provide?

Edited by russelscout

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17 minutes ago, jammen said:

The Hawkeyes have been trying to sell this same crap for years;  When one of their beloved wrestlers loses then he has something wrong with him that caused it. 

Let's examine just when Lee got his mysterious illness:

Nov- tech, tech, tech

Dec- maj, tech, fall, tech, tech, dec, loss

Jan- dec, fall, fall

Feb- maj, fall,fall,fall, lb fall

Mar-fall, maj, lb dec, tech, maj, fall, dec, dec

I don't see it.  His stats from last year are nearly identical.

2017-18.......9 falls.......8 techs.......1 maj......5 decs......2 losses

2018-19.......8 falls.......7 techs.......3 maj......4 decs.....3 losses

We should probably check the Minnesota response to Gable Steveson's losses...

Man, jammies trolling game has really fallen off a couple of notches.  He got throttled at Midlands by a guy who he demolished more than once last year, and then pinned by another guy he throttle last year.  If you couldn't see a difference in how he was wrestling, that's on you, my man.

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I suspect that the he-was/he-wasn't sick and the why-wouldn't-he-wrestle-freestyle subthreads here are probably related.  

Lee this year had the earmarks of a guy who was sick with some kind of a lingering virus that causes fatigue.  Regardless of the merits of the back and forth above about comparing his full year 2018 results to his full year 2019 results, I think the comparison that most people were keying on was 2018 NCAA to 2019 regular season and NCAA.  Lee had lingering issues with his knee throughout 2018, but then got fully cleared, dropped the brace, and took Cleveland by storm.  He was an absolute killing machine in 2018 NCAA.  Then in 2019, he was to the naked eye significantly slower and sluggish in the regular season, then definitely better but still noticeably not as lively as he was at 2018 NCAA.  

All along and even now, he and his coaches have been very opaque about it.  That is literally his right, but as a public figure of great significance in his world, that's going to cause people to push back on suggestions that his getting pinned by a guy he pinned last year, and getting repeatedly taken down and beaten twice (probably thrice if he hadn't chosen not to wrestle him once) by a guy he beat fairly easily last year was largely a result of an illness -- when the only person who is in a position to confirm and give relevant details about the illness chooses not to do so.

The freestyle issue probably comes down to the same thing.  My guess is that Lee, as a guy who did a ton of high level wrestling as a kid; didn't take the easy way out and opt for early surgery on his knee his HS senior year but rather wrestled through it, putting himself in a position where he had to wrestle through it and wasn't fully healed until the end of his freshman year; then got a bad virus and wrestled through it his sophomore year; and who probably still isn't near 100%, may very well want to focus on getting well as his top priority the next few months.  This would allow him to be at his best next year whether he seeks to go 3-for-3 against a really tough college field, or tries to take on the best in the world in freestyle during a redshirt year.  But, again, if he chooses not to give any relevant details about what to laypeople looks like its probably a health issue -- but one that doesn't trigger any braces, wraps, or other visible corrections -- some are going to look for other explanations.

My personal view is that it's his business whether and what to say about his own health, and my belief is that an illness affected his wrestling and his results.  But it's also understandable that the vacuum of information here is going to trigger a lot of discussion.  

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9 hours ago, AHamilton said:

Well, the stats you posted are worse than the ones from last year (and in a less competitive 125 than last year)... and if you look beyond the stats he did worse against the same opponents he once dominated.

So, I definitely see it.

The stats are virtually identical.  18 falls, techs, and majors each year; Lee had one fewer win by dec this year with one more loss.  And by the way, opponents are allowed to improve especially if they have some familiarity.  If Lee's 2019-20 stats are once again similar I can't wait to hear the new excuses.

Edited by jammen
grammar

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27 minutes ago, jammen said:

The stats are virtually identical.  18 falls, techs, and majors each year; Lee had one fewer win by dec this year with one more loss.  And by the way, opponents are allowed to improve especially if they some familiarity.  If Lee's 2019-20 stats are once again similar I can't wait to hear the new excuses.

And what will you say if he comes out next year and hammers everyone? 

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I am a Hawkeye fan and follow the team.  Tom Brands stated in a press conference this year that Lee had been sick and injured all year and he never gives up any information, so these comments really hit home for me.  I know several guys that are close to the team that verified that he spent some time in the hospital, so there are the haters that always want to call things excuses when in reality, these young people do get hurt and do get sick.  You won't see Lee doing a FLO documentary about all that was wrong with him.  Lee has never made an excuse, but if you listened to his NCAA press conference he stated that he had to battle through a lot of adversity, but it doesn't matter whether you're sick or hurt, you just wrestle.  What perplexes me is why others can't fathom the fact that he wasn't 100%.  You might hate Iowa, you might be jealous of a kids success, but it doesn't take a bright individual to connect these dots.  I don't care about the results this year or last, it was obvious this year that he was hurt and or sick throughout this year and I've been told that he wasn't 100% healthy at the NCAA's either.  Kudos to him for winning his 2nd national title and for being a good sport this past year in both victory and defeat.  Whether a Hawkeye fan or not, you have to give him that much credit.    

Edited by KTI

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ANYONE who watched Spencer during the year and couldn't see he was having issues of some sort simply don't know the sport. It was obvious he was struggling. He was gassing early in the second round and the last thing you expected to see was him gassing at all. Let alone that early in matches.

Put your bias away and enjoy this guy, he is fun to watch.

I go to the NCAA's every year I don't really root for or against anyone. I simply enjoy some great wrestling and when healthy, Lee is special.

 

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4 minutes ago, AKHUNTER said:

I go to the NCAA's every year I don't really root for or against anyone. I simply enjoy some great wrestling and when healthy, Lee is special.

 

Same. He was the Terminator in 2018. Captivated the whole arena.

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2 hours ago, jammen said:

The stats are virtually identical.  18 falls, techs, and majors each year; Lee had one fewer win by dec this year with one more loss.  And by the way, opponents are allowed to improve especially if they some familiarity.  If Lee's 2019-20 stats are once again similar I can't wait to hear the new excuses.

Lol excuses for being a 3 timer?

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