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Strongest p4p college wrestler?

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17 hours ago, de4856 said:

Back when he was wrestling, Anthony Robles was considered to be incredibly strong. 

I don't see how he's not P4P the strongest.  He was a 165lber who could wrestle 125lbs.  Watching him his senior year wrestle guys was just laughable.  

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1 hour ago, TBar1977 said:

Totally agree. Strength can be measured in different ways as you correctly point out. 

The strongest athlete I have ever seen is a guy who literally placed his life on the line to accomplish a goal. A goal he and he alone has succeeded at because it is too frightening to even contemplate. But one man succeeded at it. That is being so physically and mentally strong you are willing to place your very life on the line. That or he is just plain crazy.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/features/athletes/alex-honnold/most-dangerous-free-solo-climb-yosemite-national-park-el-capitan/

This... this is strength beyond strength.

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59 minutes ago, treep2000 said:

This... this is strength beyond strength.

The documentary on his quest to ascend El Cap won this year's Oscar for best documentary. I saw it and would not disagree. They did a really amazing job at capturing both the physical and mental side of this achievement. 

This 7 minute vid explains how they did it. 

https://www.snewsnet.com/videos/how-jimmy-chin-shot-alex-honnold-free-solo

Here is an 11 minute TED Talk in Alex's words.

 

The last several minutes of this video show Honnold doing a free climb on Sentinel which I think is in Morocco. Some amazing video here.

 

Edited by TBar1977

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14 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

The documentary on his quest to ascend El Cap won this year's Oscar for best documentary. I saw it and would not disagree. They did a really amazing job at capturing both the physical and mental side of this achievement. 

This 7 minute vid explains how they did it. 

https://www.snewsnet.com/videos/how-jimmy-chin-shot-alex-honnold-free-solo

Here is an 11 minute TED Talk in Alex's words.

 

Look at the guy's hands.  They play a giant factor in this feat.  You could be twice as strong as this guy, but if you don't have mitts like that, you aren't climbing mountains.  Most aren't anyway, but those paws aren't normal!

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4 hours ago, TobusRex said:

Not as strong as you think. Around 2001 I was in a pub in El Segundo, California. We used to occasionally get celebs in there. Anyway one day Lou walked in. After he'd settled in I walked over and asked, politely,  for his autograph. Lou refused. I asked again. Lou refused, again. Finally I told him "Lou, you are either going to give me your autograph willingly,  or I'll beat it out of your stupid, deaf ass.". Needless to say Lou was offended, and it wasn't until a well applied hip toss and headlock that he finally volunteered his autograph.

 

At least that's how I remember it...

Funny story.  Not at all how I remember it.  But, maybe you were right about the stupid and deaf part and it has effected my memory.  Still, I am sure that I didn't give you my autograph and there is NO chance you get it now!

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6 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

Look at the guy's hands.  They play a giant factor in this feat.  You could be twice as strong as this guy, but if you don't have mitts like that, you aren't climbing mountains.  Most aren't anyway, but those paws aren't normal!

Honnold has what he calls "the rack" in his Winnebago. The rack has ever smaller places to grip. He just hangs from it ... by his first digits. Crazy. 

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1 hour ago, MSU158 said:

Look at the guy's hands.  They play a giant factor in this feat.  You could be twice as strong as this guy, but if you don't have mitts like that, you aren't climbing mountains.  Most aren't anyway, but those paws aren't normal!

AGREED!

Coach Robie and Frayer talked about Mekhi Lewis and his hand size and strength as being key components for him. 

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21 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

Honnold has what he calls "the rack" in his Winnebago. The rack has ever smaller places to grip. He just hangs from it ... by his first digits. Crazy. 

"The rack" is a type of hangboard, which is common (basically a requirement) for rock climbers to train on. But yeah, his hands are ridiculous because he has trained his grip strength all of his life.

Tommy Caldwell, one of the two that first ascended the Dawn Wall (a much more physically demanding feat than Alex Honnold's ascent, but not anywhere near the same level mentally), does not appear to have the size hands (in terms of finger length/palm size) of Alex , and is missing an index finger, but has just as meaty of hands as Alex does.

Watching Free Solo made me realize just how good rock climbing training would be for wrestlers. The strength to weight ratio of the top climbers is off the charts, and hand, forearm, and lat strength would benefit a wrestler more than the typical lifts we always focus on, which add mass in places that are not as useful.

Edited by Crotalus

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1 hour ago, Crotalus said:

"The rack" is a type of hangboard, which is common (basically a requirement) for rock climbers to train on. But yeah, his hands are ridiculous because he has trained his grip strength all of his life.

Tommy Caldwell, one of the two that first ascended the Dawn Wall (a much more physically demanding feat than Alex Honnold's ascent, but not anywhere near the same level mentally), does not appear to have the size hands (in terms of finger length/palm size) of Alex , and is missing an index finger, but has just as meaty of hands as Alex does.

Watching Free Solo made me realize just how good rock climbing training would be for wrestlers. The strength to weight ratio of the top climbers is off the charts, and hand, forearm, and lat strength would benefit a wrestler more than the typical lifts we always focus on, which add mass in places that are not as useful.

Yes.  Those unuseful muscles of the hips, legs, and lower back... so silly to build those.

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17 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

Yes.  Those unuseful muscles of the hips, legs, and lower back... so silly to build those.

I didn't say they were useless. But most wrestlers would probably be better off working in some of the rock climbing style training than trying to bench press 300+ and squat/deadlift 450+. You don't need tree trunk legs and a massive chest to be a good wrestler. Look at Nolf and Nickal, both of whom can easily control guys who can undoubtedly lift more than they can.

As a former lightweight who is short and stocky and spent a lot of time in the weight room, this is just a reflection on how I could have better spent my training time to specifically benefit wrestling instead of just doing the glamour lifts. Plus, spending the off-season on a rock wall would have probably been more fun than in a weight room.

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Troy Letters was incredibly strong. I always thought this one armed high crotch to a lift was a pretty amazing feat, especially considering the competition.

https://youtu.be/Tw6comzsnOY?t=08m46s

I also remember hearing that Cael Sanderson was easily the strongest guy in his weight class his senior year at 197.

Edited by luckysevens

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1 hour ago, Crotalus said:

I didn't say they were useless. But most wrestlers would probably be better off working in some of the rock climbing style training than trying to bench press 300+ and squat/deadlift 450+. You don't need tree trunk legs and a massive chest to be a good wrestler. Look at Nolf and Nickal, both of whom can easily control guys who can undoubtedly lift more than they can.

As a former lightweight who is short and stocky and spent a lot of time in the weight room, this is just a reflection on how I could have better spent my training time to specifically benefit wrestling instead of just doing the glamour lifts. Plus, spending the off-season on a rock wall would have probably been more fun than in a weight room.

First of all, most power is going to come from legs and hips.  Being quick, flexible, etc. can take the place of leg and hip power to some extent; but for most normal humans hip and leg strength is how you can improve in many sports (including wrestling). 

Secondly, healthy shoulders need to be built on all sides.  This means, lats, delts, pecs.  If there is an imbalance, we have a greater risk of injury.  

Although a "big bench" isn't necessarily going to make one a great wrestler, strength along that plane of movement helps defend arm bars, half nelsons, gut wrenches, etc.

 

I was barely above average as a college wrestler and have a terrible bench press.  I had other attributes that made up for it.  In one tournament , I was able to pin a guy who had an absurdly strong bench press (360+) (but was not a great wrestler).  So I get the whole "strength isn''t  everything " crowd.  But I still contend that I would have been better if I was stronger/  And rock climbing isn't the best way to get stronger.  

Edited by AHamilton

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24 minutes ago, luckysevens said:

Troy Letters was incredibly strong. I always thought this one armed high crotch to a lift was a pretty amazing feat, especially considering the competition.

https://youtu.be/Tw6comzsnOY?t=08m46s

I also remember hearing that Cael Sanderson was easily the strongest guy in his weight class his senior year at 197.

Guy I did a camp with wrestled Cael in nationals when Cael was a freshman or soph.  Said Cael was the strongest guy in the bracket that year too.

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52 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

 But I still contend that I would have been better if I was stronger/  And rock climbing isn't the best way to get stronger.  

I was always one of the strongest in my weight class and I contend it would have benefited me to sacrifice a few pounds on my max lifts and mixed in something like rock climbing. I'd have a stronger grip and probably would have had to cut less weight. Obviously you would need to keep a well rounded strength routine to limit the possibility of injuries, but in my experience I believe there is to heavy of a focus on the power lifts.

I just imagine trying to get your wrists free from a guy who had bear paws like Alex but actually knew how to wrestle would be near impossible, no matter how big your legs and pecks are. But if you want to keep simmering my comments down to having to choose between rock climbing and lifting for training purposes, go right ahead.

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2 hours ago, Crotalus said:

I didn't say they were useless. But most wrestlers would probably be better off working in some of the rock climbing style training than trying to bench press 300+ and squat/deadlift 450+. You don't need tree trunk legs and a massive chest to be a good wrestler. Look at Nolf and Nickal, both of whom can easily control guys who can undoubtedly lift more than they can.

As a former lightweight who is short and stocky and spent a lot of time in the weight room, this is just a reflection on how I could have better spent my training time to specifically benefit wrestling instead of just doing the glamour lifts. Plus, spending the off-season on a rock wall would have probably been more fun than in a weight room.

How dare you suggest these alternative training methods.  Blasphemy... 

 

I was virtually drawn and quartered for suggesting that doing Parkour or Crossfit regimens to mix it up instead of straight lifts.  The direction you're going is pure heresy.  

Edited by treep2000

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Crossfit? Lol.  You said parkour, not crossfit. I'm still laughing, though.

Rock climbers have big hands and skinny legs, because in that sport leg power is not needed.  Maybe if I rock climb, my hands will grow and my legs will get skinnier

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10 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

Crossfit? Lol.  You said parkour, not crossfit. I'm still laughing, though.

Rock climbers have big hands and skinny legs, because in that sport leg power is not needed.  Maybe if I rock climb, my hands will grow and my legs will get skinnier

you are intentionally being obtuse.  At no time did anybody suggest that rock climbing alone would make one a stronger wrestler.  Maybe it would help build some more functional strength, in addition to a traditional weight lifting regimen.

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1 hour ago, AHamilton said:

Crossfit? Lol.  You said parkour, not crossfit. I'm still laughing, though.

Rock climbers have big hands and skinny legs, because in that sport leg power is not needed.  Maybe if I rock climb, my hands will grow and my legs will get skinnier

The legs do most of the work in rock climbing.  The big paws are mainly beneficial for holding on and wedging into cracks.

 

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1 hour ago, wildcatfan1992 said:

you are intentionally being obtuse.  At no time did anybody suggest that rock climbing alone would make one a stronger wrestler.  Maybe it would help build some more functional strength, in addition to a traditional weight lifting regimen.

Actually, the initial quote was that it would be more beneficial.

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