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Your Team’s 19/20 Probable Lineup

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3 hours ago, Housebuye said:

This is such a classic Nebraska lineup. Bunch of solid guys, no terrible weights, but at NCAAs they could place anywhere from 4th-15th. 

I thought literally the exact same thing. A handful of guys who could place very high with the right draw(Berger was the 4th or 5th best at best at 157 for NCAAs).  But could get as low as R16 type finish too.

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1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

I thought literally the exact same thing. A handful of guys who could place very high with the right draw(Berger was the 4th or 5th best at best at 157 for NCAAs).  But could get as low as R16 type finish too.

Berger was 5th best at 157?  How so??

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3 hours ago, ptz305 said:

Busiello is probably the most overrated high school wrestler of the last decade. 

Funny part is I posted that before his Match yesterday. ASU got a possible 4X AA in Teemer but I see Busiello flaming out at the D1 level.

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10 minutes ago, Mokoma said:

Even though he beat the guy who got 5th, and only lost to the champ? That's interesting.

I did say 4th or 5th. If you want to be a ponce, go ahead. There was no way he was beating Hidlay or Pantaleo at NCAAs 

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57 minutes ago, Mokoma said:

Even though he beat the guy who got 5th, and only lost to the champ? That's interesting.

In context, 5th(I would have said 4th) is actually pretty close.  Any  which way he majorly benefited from Nolf, Hidlay and Pantaleo all being on the other side of the bracket due to Deakin getting an inexplicable 3 seed.

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21 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

In context, 5th(I would have said 4th) is actually pretty close.  Any  which way he majorly benefited from Nolf, Hidlay and Pantaleo all being on the other side of the bracket due to Deakin getting an inexplicable 3 seed.

I also implied Pagdillo may have very well been better that day, since he only lost to Nolf and Pantaleo. It had nothing to do with Deakin or Young.

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3 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

I also implied Pagdillo may have very well been better that day, since he only lost to Nolf and Pantaleo. It had nothing to do with Deakin or Young.

Lol he got teched by Nolf.

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All this being said, seeds are based off results. Not momentum or projected results. Deakin's body of work did warrant a 3 seed. There is an argument against that, and it is fairly strong, but you wrestle who's in front of you when they are in front of you. Berger did what was necessary to take 2nd place at NCAAs.

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3 minutes ago, Mokoma said:

Lol he got teched by Nolf.

Point being? He also beat Early via minor decision.

Getting teched by Nolf is quite common. The only reason Berger did not is because he tried to not get teched. The methid Pagdillo lost was no worse than Berger. He just opened up a bit more.

Edited by nhs67
I have fat fingers and need to spellcheck.

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Just now, nhs67 said:

Point being? Did he also beat Early via minor decision.

Getting teched by Nolf is quite common. The only reason Berger did not is because he tried to not get teched. The methid Pagdillo lost was no worse than Berger. He just opened up a bit more.

Sure, you're right.  Pagdillo wrestled better at NCAA's than Berger.

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Just now, Mokoma said:

Sure, you're right.  Pagdillo wrestled better at NCAA's than Berger.

I didn't say he did. That was why I said 4th or 5th, you ponce. I said there was no doubt in my mind Pantaleo and Hidlay wrestled better. The only debate is did he wrestle better than Pagdillo. For the sake of argument someone, anyone, can say yes. I do believe Berger would have won, had they wrestled. They did not, though.

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29 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

I didn't say he did. That was why I said 4th or 5th, you ponce. I said there was no doubt in my mind Pantaleo and Hidlay wrestled better. The only debate is did he wrestle better than Pagdillo. For the sake of argument someone, anyone, can say yes. I do believe Berger would have won, had they wrestled. They did not, though.

Hidlay wrestled a great match against Nolf, but wasn't that impressive otherwise (relatively speaking of course). I think his style matches up well with Nolf in the same way that Pantaleo does. Really strong and positionally sound. Stays at home and doesn't make mistakes. He's able to withstand Nolf's handfight and flurries. But he didn't really show that he was any better than where he placed in the end. He only made it to Nolf because of a cheap hands to the face call. Berger beat him this year and controlled that match with 2 takedowns to 0 (same with Deakin). The only guy I'd consider putting ahead of Berger would be Pantaleo who was excellent in the postseason. I also think Berger was better at NCAAs than he had been during the regular season and he was excellent in the regular season. He completely controlled Kaleb Young, who wrestled the best tournament of his life. That was an OT match in the regular season. 

The Pagdilao assertion is pretty ridiculous. His best win at the tournament was Larry Early. There was a significant gap between 6th place Deakin and 7th place Pagdilao. A lot of people discount how good Berger was this year because they didn't like the way he talked. He was outstanding this year minus one let down match in Vegas against Parriott. That was his only non-Nolf loss of the year. He made a significant jump this year from years past. Nolf was just a really bad matchup for him and we can see the gap in talent better than we can against someone like Hidlay or Pantaleo who can keep matches closer due to their style.

I would tier157 like this 

1 Nolf

 

2a Berger (had a much better year)

2b Pantaleo (regained form in the postseason)

 

3 Hidlay

 

4 Young

5 Deakin

 

6 Pagdilao

7 Early

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41 minutes ago, qc8223 said:

The Pagdilao assertion is pretty ridiculous. His best win at the tournament was Larry Early. There was a significant gap between 6th place Deakin and 7th place Pagdilao. A lot of people discount how good Berger was this year because they didn't like the way he talked. He was outstanding this year minus one let down match in Vegas against Parriott. That was his only non-Nolf loss of the year. He made a significant jump this year from years past. Nolf was just a really bad matchup for him and we can see the gap in talent better than we can against someone like Hidlay or Pantaleo who can keep matches closer due to their style.

You understand that Berger's best win may have been Early too?

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157 tier 

1) Nolf

3) Pantaleo, Hidlay

4) Berger, Young, Deakin

5) Pagdillo, Early

I have no qualms with saying he was better than Pagdillo. My assertion that Pagdillo may have been is true, whether you wish to admit it or not. Pantaleo and Nolf were better than Berger at NCAAs. They were the only two to beat Pagdillo.

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4 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

You understand that Berger's best win may have been Early too?

 

12 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

157 tier 

1) Nolf

3) Pantaleo, Hidlay

4) Berger, Young, Deakin

5) Pagdillo, Early

I have no qualms with saying he was better than Pagdillo. My assertion that Pagdillo may have been is true, whether you wish to admit it or not. Pantaleo and Nolf were better than Berger at NCAAs. They were the only two to beat Pagdillo.

Berger's best win at the tournament was definitely Kaleb Young who still remains the most underrated guy in the country imo. His best wins during the year were Hidlay and Deakin where he had a takedown differential of 4-0 combined. I saw nothing at NCAAs that led me to believe he would not have duplicated those. Pantaleo may have beaten him because he's had his number in the past, but Berger also completely flipped his results against Hidlay this year too. I thought Hidlay looked about the same this year as last year and I thought Berger and Pantaleo (in the postseason) looked better. People are giving Hidlay a ton of credit for almost beating Nolf, but he didn't actually beat anybody he hasn't beaten before and in fact lost to someone who had never beaten him before, and should have lost to him twice. Doesn't scream huge jump to me.

Given that Hidlay was controlled by Berger during the year, I don't know how you can put Hidlay on a tier above given that Berger finished ahead of him at the tournament.There's no evidence of that this year other than the perception of how they fared against Nolf which was much more of a style thing. Look at the US Open results regarding Nolf. He struggled to break it open against Green, who wrestles a similar style to Hidlay and Pantaleo now: controls center, stays at home and picks his spots, very strong and tough to move. Green then goes on to lose to Deakin, who Nolf blew up this year. Styles make fights. 

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Take off your beer goggles. We're talking NCAAs. Not results from 3+ months earlier.

If that was the case we would be saying Pantaleo didn't stand a fart's chance in a crapstorm because he lost to a redshirt at 149lbs at around the same time.

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9 hours ago, nhs67 said:

I did say 4th or 5th. If you want to be a ponce, go ahead. There was no way he was beating Hidlay or Pantaleo at NCAAs 

Even though Berger's four losses on the season were to Nolf 3 times, and a SV loss to Pariott at Vegas, while also beating Hidlay in their only meeting during the season, there is 'no way' he is beating Hidlay or Panteleo, because the NCAA Hidlay was all the sudden better than the during the season Hidlay, and ipso facto, during the season Berger was also better than NCAA Berger...?

What an interesting take on things, LOL    Now could we get back to the intent of the thread (next year's line ups),....before you hijacked it with an off the wall, and baseless assertion?

Edited by Coachp
mistake

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49 minutes ago, Coachp said:

Even though Berger's four losses on the season were to Nolf 3 times, and a SV loss to Pariott at Vegas, while also beating Hidlay in their only meeting during the season, there is 'no way' he is beating Hidlay or Panteleo, because the NCAA Hidlay was all the sudden better than the during the season Hidlay, and ipso facto, during the season Berger was also better than NCAA Berger...?

What an interesting take on things, LOL    Now could we get back to the intent of the thread (next year's line ups),....before you hijacked it with an off the wall, and baseless assertion?

Huh? You're getting away from what was my point. Performance AT the NCAA championships.

And as far as projected lineups?

Let's hear what you have to offer. At least this sidebar has kept the thread toward the top. All you did was be 'not the sharpest cookie in the drawer' and added nothing whatsoever.

Edited by nhs67
Had to not be so mean.

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Hidlay was coming off freestyle worlds and, like many of the guys that did that this past season, it took some time for them to get back into folkstyle. 

Berger wrestled very well this season and definitely could have won, but if you didn’t see the difference between Hidlay from then to NCAA’s you are straight up blind.....

Also, it is funny that Pantaleo gets the credit for improving as the season went having taken many losses,  while Hidlay gets none only taking 2 to the 2nd and 6th place finishers. Also, no matter how you look at it, he beat Pantaleo the 1st time and the 3rd/4th match it was very obvious that the 5th year senior was waaaay more motivated to win his very last match.  That happens a TON in Consi matches. Hidlay has his dream crushed in a major way and it is very hard to focus and bounce back. 

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8 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Huh? You're getting away from what was my point. Performance AT the NCAA championships.

And as far as projected lineups?

Let's hear what you have to offer. At least this sidebar has kept the thread toward the top. All you did was be 'not the sharpest cookie in the drawer' and added nothing whatsoever.

No, I am not getting away from your point. I recognize it as a biased, and off topic troll to a thread about lineups, and will agree to totally disagree with your off topic point, and am done with it.

I would though, love to see some discussion on the lineup I suggested, if that piques anyone's interest. 

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28 minutes ago, Coachp said:

No, I am not getting away from your point. I recognize it as a biased, and off topic troll to a thread about lineups, and will agree to totally disagree with your off topic point, and am done with it.

I would though, love to see some discussion on the lineup I suggested, if that piques anyone's interest. 

I did discuss it. That is what deteriorated into what you consider as trolly behavior.

I will contradict that as to other folks acting as if an opinion impugned their flowery constitution is what derailed everything. If folks didn't have to treat every contradictory opinion as a call to arms and could see them as opinion, then we'd not be here.

As far as your lineup?

You have a slew of folks who could place as high as 3-4 or as low as R16. It depends on the draws and the day.

Example: On any given day Red can take 2nd next year or go 0-2. The same could be said for Venz, Labriola, or White, and that is just off the top of my head.

Do you think anyone may change weights?

Edited by nhs67
I have fat fingers and need to spellcheck.

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