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Is golf actually a sport?  

I think it is a game requiring some skills but does not rely enough upon  or demand true athleticism to count as a sport.

Same with bowling, billiards, NASCAR, and numerous other undertakings.

These are what we might call "skorts" (skill-ish sort of sports), to coin a word.

 

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14 minutes ago, dmm53 said:

Is golf actually a sport?  

I think it is a game requiring some skills but does not rely enough upon  or demand true athleticism to count as a sport.

Same with bowling, billiards, NASCAR, and numerous other undertakings.

These are what we might call "skorts" (skill-ish sort of sports), to coin a word.

 

Baseball...

 

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46 minutes ago, dmm53 said:

Is golf actually a sport?  

I think it is a game requiring some skills but does not rely enough upon  or demand true athleticism to count as a sport.

Same with bowling, billiards, NASCAR, and numerous other undertakings.

These are what we might call "skorts" (skill-ish sort of sports), to coin a word.

 

I would view golf as more of a sport than bowling, billiards, NASCAR.  Great golfers have to display a lot of core physical gifts -- hand-eye coordination, strength, precision, and have to be able to focus, concentrate, and compete like great athletes.  

Brooks Koepka, Dustin Johnson, Tiger Woods, and others are much better athletes than the people in the other mentioned sports/endeavors. 

But golf is a game where a 43 year old with a battered body just won a major tournament, where people in their 40s have won a fair amount, and where a 59 year old almost/should have won a big title several years back.  So it's not the same as wrestling, the big four professional sports, tennis, and others. 

Even with respect to baseball.  No 43 year old could be a top baseball player (position player anyway; only exception could have been Barry Bonds, but he was one of the top ten players ever and then threw massive amounts of steroids on top of that).  Baseball players generally top out at 27 or 28, then fall off, and are usually out of the majors by their early or mid 30s; only Hall of Famers can keep playing at a high level into their late 30s.  The classic example of this was when Willie Mays, probably the best player ever, tripped and fell on his face in the World Series trying to track a fly ball in his last year at age 42.  Pitchers use to occasionally pitch into their 40s, but that hasn't happened much lately,  either.  

Golf is a different thing physically.  The dropoff in physical function that happens to everyone starting in their late 20s and unstoppably so in the mid-to-late 30s can be overcome more so in golf than in the "real" sports.  Most of that is because you're playing the course, not other people.  If you drive the ball 10-15% shorter than you used to, you can still find a way to manage the course and win some tournaments, though probably less than you used to.  If you are 10-15% less strong, fast, endurance, etc., you won't beat a number of great wrestlers in a tournament; can't get around on a major league fastball consistently; can't get up and down the basketball court and guard top players, etc.  

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1 minute ago, drag it said:

I would view golf as more of a sport than bowling, billiards, NASCAR.  Great golfers have to display a lot of core physical gifts -- hand-eye coordination, strength, precision, and have to be able to focus, concentrate, and compete like great athletes.  

Brooks Koepka, Dustin Johnson, Tiger Woods, and others are much better athletes than the people in the other mentioned sports/endeavors. 

But golf is a game where a 43 year old with a battered body just won a major tournament, where people in their 40s have won a fair amount, and where a 59 year old almost/should have won a big title several years back.  So it's not the same as wrestling, the big four professional sports, tennis, and others. 

Even with respect to baseball.  No 43 year old could be a top baseball player (position player anyway; only exception could have been Barry Bonds, but he was one of the top ten players ever and then threw massive amounts of steroids on top of that).  Baseball players generally top out at 27 or 28, then fall off, and are usually out of the majors by their early or mid 30s; only Hall of Famers can keep playing at a high level into their late 30s.  The classic example of this was when Willie Mays, probably the best player ever, tripped and fell on his face in the World Series trying to track a fly ball in his last year at age 42.  Pitchers use to occasionally pitch into their 40s, but that hasn't happened much lately,  either.  

Golf is a different thing physically.  The dropoff in physical function that happens to everyone starting in their late 20s and unstoppably so in the mid-to-late 30s can be overcome more so in golf than in the "real" sports.  Most of that is because you're playing the course, not other people.  If you drive the ball 10-15% shorter than you used to, you can still find a way to manage the course and win some tournaments, though probably less than you used to.  If you are 10-15% less strong, fast, endurance, etc., you won't beat a number of great wrestlers in a tournament; can't get around on a major league fastball consistently; can't get up and down the basketball court and guard top players, etc.  

..now that right there is an analysis.... thanks!!..

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1 hour ago, dmm53 said:

Is golf actually a sport?  

I think it is a game requiring some skills but does not rely enough upon  or demand true athleticism to count as a sport.

Same with bowling, billiards, NASCAR, and numerous other undertakings.

These are what we might call "skorts" (skill-ish sort of sports), to coin a word.

 

When I was 18 into my 20's I thought the same thing....then I started to play it....didn't take long to convince me it's a very difficult sport.  As I write this, I'm watching Tiger winning another Masters.....Tiger and Jack Nicklaus....2 of the greatest athletes of all time!!!

 

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3 minutes ago, cornercoach said:

..now that right there is an analysis.... thanks!!..

Don't thank me; thank my airline for cancelling my flight and leaving me with an entire day alone with my thoughts and computer in the LaGuardia terminal to contemplate many matters large and small.  

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34 minutes ago, Dr. Novak said:

Ever see Burroughs or Retherford swing a golf club?  Both are full on spaz.

I think that's what you get with most top wrestlers when they try swinging sports -- golf, baseball, tennis.  Short, jerky swings instead of longer, fluid strokes. 

Swings in those sports start with feet planted and for the most part remain so (some variation; tennis players now jump a little on their forehand, and in gold and tennis you come off your back heel), then a turn of the hips and a long swing with full extension through the ball, with only air resisting on the other side of the ball. 

In a wrestling hold, your feet usually aren't planted but are moving (usually forward and circular), while your arms aren't extending through a lightweight ball, but rather are meeting the muscled resistance of someone weighing as much as you (hundreds of times heavier than a ball). 

Thus a wrestling hold is more contained and less fluid than a swing, and when a wrestler who is inexperienced in those sports tries to play them, he will probably look quite a bit less than well coordinated.

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It's funny this is being mentioned.  My girlfriend is a pretty good wrestler, and I started bringing her to the driving range with me.  She likes it because you have to focus and get your mechanics correct or you won't hit the ball or hit it very well.  I'm a terrible golfer, at least I think I am, and I hit it straight maybe 1 out of 4 or so.  If you watched her swing a golf club now you wouldn't be able to guess she only picked one up for the first time about a month ago.  Her swing is great, it's just the little things that throw her off on being able to hit it consistently.  But the body mechanics and focus are definitely there.  I think hitting a ball straight 200 yards is one of the most difficult things to be able to do in sports, aside from trying to hit a fastball. 

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11 hours ago, TripNSweep said:

It's funny this is being mentioned.  My girlfriend is a pretty good wrestler, and I started bringing her to the driving range with me.  She likes it because you have to focus and get your mechanics correct or you won't hit the ball or hit it very well.  I'm a terrible golfer, at least I think I am, and I hit it straight maybe 1 out of 4 or so.  If you watched her swing a golf club now you wouldn't be able to guess she only picked one up for the first time about a month ago.  Her swing is great, it's just the little things that throw her off on being able to hit it consistently.  But the body mechanics and focus are definitely there.  I think hitting a ball straight 200 yards is one of the most difficult things to be able to do in sports, aside from trying to hit a fastball. 

Hitting a fastball is pretty easy...at least up to 90 MPH.  It’s the curve and sliders that elite pitchers throw that are nearly impossible to hit.  The hardest thing to do in all of sport is to hit an elite curveball...IMO.  

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1 hour ago, tightwaist said:

Hitting a fastball is pretty easy...at least up to 90 MPH.  It’s the curve and sliders that elite pitchers throw that are nearly impossible to hit.  The hardest thing to do in all of sport is to hit an elite curveball...IMO.  

It's pretty damn difficult to hit something moving that fast honestly.  Above 50 or 60 is when you have to be really good and have exceptional reflexes and hand eye coordination to be able to hit it by anything other than pure luck.  

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17 hours ago, dmm53 said:

Is golf actually a sport?  

I think it is a game requiring some skills but does not rely enough upon  or demand true athleticism to count as a sport.

Same with bowling, billiards, NASCAR, and numerous other undertakings.

These are what we might call "skorts" (skill-ish sort of sports), to coin a word.

 

They are all sports. There’s actually qualification system if you will, the “three pillars”. The third is what is relative here: must contain vigorous physical activity OR the use of complex manipulative skills. 

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21 minutes ago, TripNSweep said:

It's pretty damn difficult to hit something moving that fast honestly.  Above 50 or 60 is when you have to be really good and have exceptional reflexes and hand eye coordination to be able to hit it by anything other than pure luck.  

Not when you’ve played the game for a long time.  Fast ball is just about timing.  An elite curve can literally buckle your knees.  I played in an over 30 league for several years, facing former high school & college pitchers...many who threw mid-high 80’s, usually with a decent curve. 

One year, a team picked up a recently cut AAA pitcher named Tommy Harrison, who was in his early 30’s.  He threw around 90, but his curve was literally unhittable.  You could foul off a fastball or occasionally push one into the opposite field.  The curve wouldn’t ever make contact with the bat.  You couldn’t even nip it with your bat.  It was mind-blowing .  And, this guy was a career minor leaguer with a mediocre record & ERA.  

 

 

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3 hours ago, tightwaist said:

Hitting a fastball is pretty easy...at least up to 90 MPH.  It’s the curve and sliders that elite pitchers throw that are nearly impossible to hit.  The hardest thing to do in all of sport is to hit an elite curveball...IMO.  

Statement to this effect are so often repeated that they are taken as truth, but they just don't stand up.  Why if it is the most difficult thing to do, can some many people accomplish it.  Most good major league hitters put the ball into the play in most of their at bats even if they don't end up as hits.  I know it is an elite skill, but every high level sport requires elite skills.  Persosnally, I washed out in little league where I was terrified of getting hit pitch and just stood there never taking a swing, hoping for a walk.

Personally, I would argue the hardest thing in sports is to be an NFL QB.  There are maybe 16 QBs in the league who are better than adequate.

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1 minute ago, Jim L said:

Statement to this effect are so often repeated that they are taken as truth, but they just don't stand up.  Why if it is the most difficult thing to do, can some many people accomplish it.  Most good major league hitters put the ball into the play in most of their at bats even if they don't end up as hits.  I know it is an elite skill, but every high level sport requires elite skills.  Persosnally, I washed out in little league where I was terrified of getting hit pitch and just stood there never taking a swing, hoping for a walk.

Personally, I would argue the hardest thing in sports is to be an NFL QB.  There are maybe 16 QBs in the league who are better than adequate.

Getting a hit 30% of the time makes you an all-star in baseball.

A QB completing <60% of his passes gets you run out of the sport.

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19 hours ago, dmm53 said:

Is golf actually a sport?  

I think it is a game requiring some skills but does not rely enough upon  or demand true athleticism to count as a sport.

Same with bowling, billiards, NASCAR, and numerous other undertakings.

These are what we might call "skorts" (skill-ish sort of sports), to coin a word.

 

Considering  the enormous girth of CC Sabathia, you'd better include baseball.

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it's always amazing to me how participants in each sport think they are so much more athletic than participants in other sports.  In this case, the wrestling fans over exaggerate the athletic prowess of their participants.  Their are outliers in every sport.  CC Sabathis was mentioned.  Well, see Sam Stoll for wrestling.  The best basketball player in history struggled mightily in AA baseball.  A former Heisman winning QB that won a playoff game in the NFL can't reach the majors.

Quick anecdote, my high school wrestling team was ranked top 20 in the nation my senior year.  We always played basketball games during Christmas break just to do something different.  Watching 95% of the guys on my team try to dribble and shoot was high comedy.

Athletes in all sports have a particular skill set that they work to develop and become successful.  I think, unless you are a freak like Bo Jackson, Deion or Jim Brown, it is crazy to think that somebody can pick up a golf club and be on the PGA tour in 3 years (or the majors or NBA) when they are so far behind the thousands of others who have dedicated their lives to reaching that point.

Conversely, do you think a 245 lb NFL LB could train in wrestling exclusively for 3 years and make a world team?

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17 hours ago, Dr. Novak said:

Ever see Burroughs or Retherford swing a golf club?  Both are full on spaz.

Reminds me of that Iowa wrestling video, where Gable spins Jesse Whitmer around on a basketball court.  

None of those wrestlers looked like they had ever seen a basketball, although Mike Mena did underhand one in from half court.

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7 minutes ago, wildcatfan1992 said:

Conversely, do you think a 245 lb NFL LB could train in wrestling exclusively for 3 years and make a world team?

Depending on their level of natural athletic ability, including strength, balance, agility, etc. and if they had the right kind of coaching then I don't think it would be out of the question.  A football player in high school I knew in passing, he was an athletic freak of nature. 6'5, 260 ran a 4.5 40 and played running back and defensive end.  He returned kickoffs too, I saw him hurdle a guy who tried to tackle him.  He didn't last in college because he had terrible grades, but tons of D1 schools were all over him.  Somebody talked him into trying out wrestling as a senior in high school.  He went to a few practices and wrestled in one dual meet before he quit.  They taught him about 4 basic moves in the span of 2 hours.  He double legged the heavyweight from their rival high school and bruised his ribs pretty badly before throwing a very crude half and pinning him.  I don't think I've seen any heavyweight in high school, with the exception of guys from elite high schools, move like that guy did.  There's some things you can't teach, and being that big, strong and athletic is one of them.  Throw in top notch coaching and maybe you won't have the most technically sound wrestler, but you will have a guy who uses his physical gifts to make up for what he doesn't have.  I hate to say it, but if a guy like Ray Lewis had stuck with wrestling he could have ended up really really good.  

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