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Jimmy Cinnabon

Why I think Penn State is about to decline

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2 hours ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

I'd actually disagree.  I think Cael's ability to continue PSU's dynasty hinges upon whether or not he has found those transcendent guys.  The arms race has reached a point where it's going to be tough to win for those at the top without a couple of dominant champs.  

I guess we will disagree then - Transcendent is a very good adjective for the 1st group of guys I mentioned.  I don't think he will have the luxury of having guys that will dominate like that for 4 years that often (or even 3 years with a AA FY like Zane) - Guys like Frank M who can place the 1st couple of years and be great as upperclassmen will more likely.  Cassar is another example - he was on the bench early and could finish as a 2X champ.  I expect PSU can still win titles with enough guys like that.  Of course if Hall & ViJo finish on top of the podium next year they will be added to the "transcendent" list too.

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15 minutes ago, Boompa said:

I personally think PSU throws in the towell this year and redshirts everyone, olympic or otherwise....which still gives them a top 10 finish.

Imagine how it would totally kill Iowa permanently if PSU throws in the towell and they still don't win, at least tOSU was better at dealing with their obligatory title.

That sets them immediately back up to go on a run and dismantle OSU and tOSU's superstar recruiting classes.

They still need to fix 125 and constantly underperforming below 149.

I don't think PSU "throws in the towel" under any circumstances next year.  With Rasheed and Cassar coming back they are primed for another run at the title.  Even if Hall wants to ORS they could start Brooks (if he can hold 174) or Starocci.  I think RBY will be ready to compete with the best at 133 next year.  If Connel joins the squad they could start the year with up 7 past AAs 3 of whom have been Champs. There is no way Cael punts next year as he did in 2015.

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5 minutes ago, lu1979 said:

I don't think PSU "throws in the towel" under any circumstances next year.  With Rasheed and Cassar coming back they are primed for another run at the title.  Even if Hall wants to ORS they could start Brooks (if he can hold 174) or Starocci.  I think RBY will be ready to compete with the best at 133 next year.  If Connel joins the squad they could start the year with up 7 past AAs 3 of whom have been Champs. There is no way Cael punts next year as he did in 2015.

Add to this that Cassar and/or Rasheed are going to return just for the team to punt? I get the idea of individual goals, but Cassar already has a title.

Cenzo is wrestling. So they are already in the hunt, so Hall is then needed and he goes too. Plus, if Zahid bumps to 184 Hall becomes the favorite for another title. 

Like you, I think those two coming back pretty much indicates PSU will try to win it. 

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12 hours ago, lu1979 said:

I guess we will disagree then - Transcendent is a very good adjective for the 1st group of guys I mentioned.  I don't think he will have the luxury of having guys that will dominate like that for 4 years that often (or even 3 years with a AA FY like Zane) - Guys like Frank M who can place the 1st couple of years and be great as upperclassmen will more likely.  Cassar is another example - he was on the bench early and could finish as a 2X champ.  I expect PSU can still win titles with enough guys like that.  Of course if Hall & ViJo finish on top of the podium next year they will be added to the "transcendent" list too.

I wouldn't put Hall as "transcendent" if he wins next year.  To me, a 2x champ is not transcendent, especially with the way he wrestles.  Zahid is likely the only one that can/will beat Hall, but Hall's style isn't one that falls in the "transcendent" category  to me.

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1 hour ago, wildcatfan1992 said:

I wouldn't put Hall as "transcendent" if he wins next year.  To me, a 2x champ is not transcendent, especially with the way he wrestles.  Zahid is likely the only one that can/will beat Hall, but Hall's style isn't one that falls in the "transcendent" category  to me.

As rare as 4x finalists are, I think you're right, although we're obviously getting extremely nit-picky here. 

Looking at bonus points through first 3 years of competition:

Taylor: 3.5 + 9 + 8 = 20.5
Ruth: 4 + 6.5 + 6 = 16.5
Nolf: 6 + 7 + 3 = 16
Retherford: 2 + 5 + 8 = 15
Nickal: 2 + 7.5 + 3 = 12.5
Hall: 2.5 + 5.5 + 1 = 9
Joseph: 3 + 1 + 2 = 6

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47 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

As rare as 4x finalists are, I think you're right, although we're obviously getting extremely nit-picky here. 

Looking at bonus points through first 3 years of competition:

Taylor: 3.5 + 9 + 8 = 20.5
Ruth: 4 + 6.5 + 6 = 16.5
Nolf: 6 + 7 + 3 = 16
Retherford: 2 + 5 + 8 = 15
Nickal: 2 + 7.5 + 3 = 12.5
Hall: 2.5 + 5.5 + 1 = 9
Joseph: 3 + 1 + 2 = 6

Agreed, it is nit picky.  I just don't put Hall in the same class as guys like Ruth, Nolf, Nickal, Retherford or Taylor.  I wouldn't even put him in class with a guy like Metcalf.

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On 4/15/2019 at 1:44 PM, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Don't get me wrong.  PSU will still be a top 3 team every year...but I think the competition has closed the recruiting gap significantly.  I think in the next 10 years PSU will win 5 or fewer of those team titles.

The way you put it the others have not closed the gap, Penn State has noticeably regressed.

They start the coming season with one current NCAA champ - who is a total fluke and only won because he is lucky - and a couple HasBeens - who will be lucky to AA this coming season if all goes well.

I knew Cael should have started an exploratory committee to lobby for the Utah Valley job.

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On 4/15/2019 at 5:02 PM, BHawk91 said:

Once again, no one can have a negative opinion about PSU without TBar calling him them a troll.  Instead of calling in a Troll why don't you enlighten us on why you think he is wrong because all of his points, are pretty spot on.

1) for sure is spot on, two of the best wrestlers in the history of the sport are no longer in PSU's lineup.

2) 125 has been and will continue to be an issue for PSU

3) a little bit of a question mark but you can't deny that he is correct at this time, RBY needs to work a lot more work and probably would benefit from a RS because if his best move is to stall most of the match with one hand behind his back, then there will be issues there.

4) Prove him wrong, Nick Lee has peaked and the stats certainly tell that story

5) Verk couldn't even crack the lineup and Berge was sucking wind for most of the year

6) Here is where I differ a little because as long as Joseph is in the lineup, he has a shot.  Now with that being said, he is 0-2 against the Bull and 0-1 against Lewis (I guess I am not sure if they wrestled previously) and none of those matches where even close.

7) I also think Brooks and Beard are studs but they are not in the lineup AND unproven.  Ask Fix and Steveson what happens to unproven Freshmen.

8) He is spot on again

So just because you are butt hurt you have to call someone a troll?  He is pretty spot on with his run down.

Not sure where we’re going here but I’ll take a mild take. I only see It PSU winning 2 titles in the next 5 years - next season and maybe one other. You don’t replace the last three guys who left. To your points...

1. Make that three over the past two season, Berge/Verk, Pipher, and Conel/Beard can’t make up for that. 

2. It is, has, and will be but Matty Parker makes up for that - we’re not asking him to AA, just win a couple of duals and qualify for NCAA’s - breath of fresh air.

3. Ahh you’re better than that, RBY is an interesting wrestler but I could probably put at least one B1G wrestler above him in stalling. He’s a work in progress and I hope he doesnt take a RS

4. Not sure on Lee, he lost one dual but couldn’t get it done vs McKenna.

5. Verks a solid wrestler, probably would have been at least a 3x PIAA champ but had issues with the coaching staff in HS. Berge was sucking wind, but I’m not sure he’s a true 157.

6. Joseph seems to get it done when it matters, that’s why I’m shocked he lost to Lewis. Sad he couldn’t win 4 because all of my PA buddies root against him as well. I guess he just had Imars number.

7. Beard and Brooks will be fine, not 4x champs fine, but fine. 

Not sure about spot on but it’s fair to say this team will regress. My title pick for next season is Iowa even though I think PSU finds a way. 

 

Edited by LLB

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I'm hoping to post several end-if-era topics next year.

o I really enjoyed the PSU is regressing era
o I really enjoyed the Nick Lee has peaked era
o I really enjoyed the Joseph won't win another championship era.

If only one of three eras end, I'll count next season as an exceeds expectation result.

For now, I'll content myself with enjoying the fantasy-RBY-denying-an-arm-is-stalling era which could (I hope) continue with a Desanto defeat next year. But take hope fantasizers, maybe RBY was redshirting his arm and it will return to action next year. That would be a shame but you could at least have the satisfaction of posting an end of era thread.


Sent from my moto e5 play using Tapatalk

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5 hours ago, swoopdown said:

I'm hoping to post several end-if-era topics next year.

o I really enjoyed the PSU is regressing era
o I really enjoyed the Nick Lee has peaked era
o I really enjoyed the Joseph won't win another championship era.

If only one of three eras end, I'll count next season as an exceeds expectation result.

For now, I'll content myself with enjoying the fantasy-RBY-denying-an-arm-is-stalling era which could (I hope) continue with a Desanto defeat next year. But take hope fantasizers, maybe RBY was redshirting his arm and it will return to action next year. That would be a shame but you could at least have the satisfaction of posting an end of era thread.


Sent from my moto e5 play using Tapatalk
 

RBY's style influenced Luke Pletcher to adopt the deny the left arm strategem. He's obviously a trend setter. 

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Things are unraveling for the Nittany Lions.  During the past week, a PSU chemistry professor was charged with 35 counts of child pornography.  Then Jeff Byers was placed on leave for asking students to calculate how much gas would be a lethal dose for usage in a Nazi gas chamber.

News articles at https://tinyurl.com/y3vtk8e8 and https://tinyurl.com/y6p7qfzg  

 

Edited by HurricaneWrestling2

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23 minutes ago, quaker118 said:

Portland State University. Pay attention to what you read. If you read it at all. 

I think he worded things the way he did purposely. The Jeff Byers mentioned was put on leave from Middlebury College, which is a seven-plus-hour drive from Penn State.

Hurricane, well played!

Edited by SetonHallPirate

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