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When is Hall gonna wrestle?

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If Lee doesn't try to make the team this year it would make sense, the high speculation is that he had mono. One of the only ways to fully recover from mono is ample rest. Sad deal, but it's probably best for him this year. 

Now, the fact that he didn't try to make the team last year was a joke. I fully believe Brands is utilizing Lee being at Iowa/fully invested into the team as an excuse to keep Lee off the mat in regards to Freestyle. A talent like Lee in the Freestyle world doesn't come around often and the fact that he will more than likely be off the freestyle mat for 4 years is just ludicrous.

When he graduates he will be fully invested into the freestyle world, but will have wasted 3 world championships along with an Olympic Games.

What a sad deal for an exceptional talent like Lee. 

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42 minutes ago, MrDream said:

If Lee doesn't try to make the team this year it would make sense, the high speculation is that he had mono. One of the only ways to fully recover from mono is ample rest. Sad deal, but it's probably best for him this year. 

Now, the fact that he didn't try to make the team last year was a joke. I fully believe Brands is utilizing Lee being at Iowa/fully invested into the team as an excuse to keep Lee off the mat in regards to Freestyle. A talent like Lee in the Freestyle world doesn't come around often and the fact that he will more than likely be off the freestyle mat for 4 years is just ludicrous.

When he graduates he will be fully invested into the freestyle world, but will have wasted 3 world championships along with an Olympic Games.

What a sad deal for an exceptional talent like Lee. 

Is Brands (or Perry) trying to avoid drama like the Ramos-Dennis thing a few years ago?

I thought Spencer Lee didn't compete in FS because he was recovering from another surgery after last season. This past season, I'm still not sure about the mono rumor. If he had it years ago in high school, it's pretty rare to contract it a second time. 

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31 minutes ago, pamela said:

Is Brands (or Perry) trying to avoid drama like the Ramos-Dennis thing a few years ago?

I thought Spencer Lee didn't compete in FS because he was recovering from another surgery after last season. This past season, I'm still not sure about the mono rumor. If he had it years ago in high school, it's pretty rare to contract it a second time. 

1). If Lee didn't compete after his freshman year due to an injury then that's scary. He was peaking at the end of the and absolutely dismantled everyone at the NCAA's. He looked to be in peak form after February and his knee looked to be perfectly fine. 

2). Lee was definitely sick this year. His lack of strength and endurance led a lot of people to believe it was Mono. I can totally understand Lee sitting out this year due to recovery. 

3). I believe Brands is trying to do the civil thing and let Gilman have every opportunity to make the squad. I do believe the Ramos/Dennis thing left a bad taste in TnT's mouth and they don't want to see it again. Gilman has openly stated he rolls with Spencer, so Gilman is basically getting one of the best training partners in the world without fear of that guy taking his spot, or even having the ability to attempt to take it due to my speculation that TnT is telling Lee that his time will come, but right now let's focus on UofI. 

 

I believe TnT told Gilman, we can hold Lee back until he's done, but once he's off the University of Iowa's Wrestling Team....its free reign for anyone to take the spot. My gripe is that I believe that Lee deserves different circumstances due to his ability in the freestyle world. 3x Freestyle World Champ and he hasn't wrestled competitively in 3 years....I think that's a travesty. 

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52 minutes ago, MrDream said:

I believe TnT told Gilman, we can hold Lee back until he's done, but once he's off the University of Iowa's Wrestling Team....its free reign for anyone to take the spot. My gripe is that I believe that Lee deserves different circumstances due to his ability in the freestyle world. 3x Freestyle World Champ and he hasn't wrestled competitively in 3 years....I think that's a travesty. 

I have a really hard time believing this theory, although I understand the speculation.  

If we're to believe that Spencer wants to compete in freestyle and Brands is holding him out, then we also have to believe that either (a) Spencer is a complete pushover, or (b) Tom Brands is the world's greatest salesman.  Maybe that is the case--maybe Brands is saying "Focus on 2020... 2020 is the goal... ignore the noise... this is in your best interest... etc., etc."

I just don't take Spencer to be the kind of guy that's going to be sold a bill of goods, and that if he wanted to wrestle, he would be there.  

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1 minute ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

I have a really hard time believing this theory, although I understand the speculation.  

If we're to believe that Spencer wants to compete in freestyle and Brands is holding him out, then we also have to believe that either (a) Spencer is a complete pushover, or (b) Tom Brands is the world's greatest salesman.  Maybe that is the case--maybe Brands is saying "Focus on 2020... 2020 is the goal... ignore the noise... this is in your best interest... etc., etc."

I just don't take Spencer to be the kind of guy that's going to be sold a bill of goods, and that if he wanted to wrestle, he would be there.  

But you believe the theory that a 3x World Champion just all of a sudden doesn't want to wrestle freestyle???

If you believe that, I've got a ton of ocean front property in Idaho I'll sell ya real cheap. 

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14 minutes ago, MrDream said:

But you believe the theory that a 3x World Champion just all of a sudden doesn't want to wrestle freestyle???

If you believe that, I've got a ton of ocean front property in Idaho I'll sell ya real cheap. 

You're wildly speculating. Two years ago he didn't wrestle freestyle because he was recovering from a torn acl. Last year, he was actually scheduled to wrestle overseas, but was a late scratch (as in we found out he wasn't actually wrestling when the brackets came out that morning). Him wrestling in that tournament would have had no impact on Gilman who had already made the team and was not wrestling in that tournament. He clearly didn't scratch because of some absurd promise to Gilman. Something happened that caused him to scratch from the tournament. This season he had the most tumultuous season of his life regardless of whether you think he was dealing with something physical. He might need a couple months off to recover, and due to the schedule of the qualifying process, that might mean he doesn't try to make the team. You can't take a month off the mat to heal and rest and then be ready to go for the open. Also, he's already qualified for the trials so he can conceivably show up and put this whole thing to rest. 

This wouldn't even be a hot topic if it weren't for the Ramos-Dennis situation in 2016 which was a completely different dynamic. Dennis had retired and came back to town. Ramos' beef was that TNT lobbied to keep Dennis after he was set to move to Va Tech. Ramos felt that was disloyal because he was already there and Dennis was gunning for the same spot. Gilman and Lee are very close and train together regularly (Ramos refused to train with Dennis). In fact, there's a brief clip out there somewhere of Lee and Gilman going live in the room. They also wrestled two practice matches at the OTC last year (both won by Gilman). Lee not wrestling has everything to do with what he wants to do, not what Gilman wants him to do.

Mark Hall is also a 3x age level world champion and has for some reason not attempted to make a team in 2 years. Why aren't you wildly speculating about whether Cael is holding Mark back to clear a path for Nolf at 74 kg for 2020? Penn State appears to be holding back all of their top guys who have eligibility left with the exception of Nick Lee. Hall, Cassar, and Joseph look like they're going to take the summer to rest too. It makes sense when you look at the early season results a lot of the guys who made teams last summer had. It took some of them a month or two to get back in the swing of things. Asking all of the top college guys to wrestle competitively year round is a much bigger ask than most people seem to realize. You can't stay peaked year round.

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4 minutes ago, qc8223 said:

You're wildly speculating. Two years ago he didn't wrestle freestyle because he was recovering from a torn acl. Last year, he was actually scheduled to wrestle overseas, but was a late scratch (as in we found out he wasn't actually wrestling when the brackets came out that morning). Him wrestling in that tournament would have had no impact on Gilman who had already made the team and was not wrestling in that tournament. He clearly didn't scratch because of some absurd promise to Gilman. Something happened that caused him to scratch from the tournament. This season he had the most tumultuous season of his life regardless of whether you think he was dealing with something physical. He might need a couple months off to recover, and due to the schedule of the qualifying process, that might mean he doesn't try to make the team. You can't take a month off the mat to heal and rest and then be ready to go for the open. Also, he's already qualified for the trials so he can conceivably show up and put this whole thing to rest. 

This wouldn't even be a hot topic if it weren't for the Ramos-Dennis situation in 2016 which was a completely different dynamic. Dennis had retired and came back to town. Ramos' beef was that TNT lobbied to keep Dennis after he was set to move to Va Tech. Ramos felt that was disloyal because he was already there and Dennis was gunning for the same spot. Gilman and Lee are very close and train together regularly (Ramos refused to train with Dennis). In fact, there's a brief clip out there somewhere of Lee and Gilman going live in the room. They also wrestled two practice matches at the OTC last year (both won by Gilman). Lee not wrestling has everything to do with what he wants to do, not what Gilman wants him to do.

Mark Hall is also a 3x age level world champion and has for some reason not attempted to make a team in 2 years. Why aren't you wildly speculating about whether Cael is holding Mark back to clear a path for Nolf at 74 kg for 2020? Penn State appears to be holding back all of their top guys who have eligibility left with the exception of Nick Lee. Hall, Cassar, and Joseph look like they're going to take the summer to rest too. It makes sense when you look at the early season results a lot of the guys who made teams last summer had. It took some of them a month or two to get back in the swing of things. Asking all of the top college guys to wrestle competitively year round is a much bigger ask than most people seem to realize. You can't stay peaked year round.

People are talking about Hall. It is weird that he isn’t signed up for the open. I know psu took last year off but I thought the idea was they were all going to make a hard push in 2019 and 2020. He didn’t win ncaas so he has to qualify at the Open or last chance. 

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Also, in terms of Spencer Lee... 

If he's waiting on 2020, I think it's a bad idea.  I think he needs to have a go this round, and if he loses domestically, he'll know what he has to work on in order to move forward, taking the entire year to do so.  Putting all your eggs in the 2020 basket, without much prep or real match experience in quite some time, is begging for a let down.

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I can’t believe people actually think it’s in Lee’s best interest to compete right now. It’s like nobody watched him this season. I would’ve been shocked to see him do any freestyle this season. 

Brands holding an eager Lee back because of Gilman is just laughable. 

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29 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

I can’t believe people actually think it’s in Lee’s best interest to compete right now. It’s like nobody watched him this season. I would’ve been shocked to see him do any freestyle this season. 

Brands holding an eager Lee back because of Gilman is just laughable. 

stop making sense

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31 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

I can’t believe people actually think it’s in Lee’s best interest to compete right now. It’s like nobody watched him this season. I would’ve been shocked to see him do any freestyle this season. 

Brands holding an eager Lee back because of Gilman is just laughable. 

Same excuse last season?

nobody would be talking about this if Lee, the best or one of the best  freestyle prospects in a long time (some argue ever), hasn’t wrestled a single freestyle match since 2016 (he is 0-0 in freestyle under Brands), when half the justification for his decision to go to Iowa was his freestyle aspirations under the proven Brands system. 

It could just be bad luck (chose to take last season off so he could go full speed for 2019 and 2020) and then had new issues arise in 2019, preventing him from competing this year too. That seems fairly unlikely, especially seeing as he was healthy for NCAAs, a month before the Open, in both years. 

None of this matters if he shows up for WTT, but pretending like it is silly to question what is going on is totally reasonable. 

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2 hours ago, treep2000 said:

I still speculate that he's waiting for U23's.

He might be, but why? Why not get some senior level experience? He hasn’t wrestled a single senior level match. He has never won a freestyle tournament above 50kg I don’t believe. He needs the experience. 

I’ve never doubted Lee’s ability and expect that he will be a world champ, but he still needs experience against men 

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Questioning why he’s not competing is fine. But acting like it’s super surprising after this season is being literally blind to the evidence. 

Brands holding back the face of Iowa wrestling so that Gilman can have one less domestic competitor is just silly. It would benefit Iowa and therefore Brands much more if Lee somehow became the senior rep and medaled while still in college. Unfortunately, Lee is clearly not without whatever adversities he is dealing with. 

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48 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

Same excuse last season?

nobody would be talking about this if Lee, the best or one of the best  freestyle prospects in a long time (some argue ever), hasn’t wrestled a single freestyle match since 2016 (he is 0-0 in freestyle under Brands), when half the justification for his decision to go to Iowa was his freestyle aspirations under the proven Brands system. 

It could just be bad luck (chose to take last season off so he could go full speed for 2019 and 2020) and then had new issues arise in 2019, preventing him from competing this year too. That seems fairly unlikely, especially seeing as he was healthy for NCAAs, a month before the Open, in both years. 

None of this matters if he shows up for WTT, but pretending like it is silly to question what is going on is totally reasonable. 

This seems like the most likely thing, not unlikely. People are overthinking this. Lee probably doesn't feel ready to compete, so he's not going to compete.

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1 hour ago, Housebuye said:

He might be, but why? Why not get some senior level experience? He hasn’t wrestled a single senior level match. He has never won a freestyle tournament above 50kg I don’t believe. He needs the experience. 

I’ve never doubted Lee’s ability and expect that he will be a world champ, but he still needs experience against men 

In that incredibly vague response I gave, I was referencing Mark Hall.  

I also believe it's in Spencer's best interest to go this year... and if he does not represent the USA, he got the amazingly valuable experience needed so that he could adjust for 2020.

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10 minutes ago, treep2000 said:

In that incredibly vague response I gave, I was referencing Mark Hall.  

I also believe it's in Spencer's best interest to go this year... and if he does not represent the USA, he got the amazingly valuable experience needed so that he could adjust for 2020.

Haha that makes sense! 

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20 hours ago, wrestlingnerd said:

I can’t believe people actually think it’s in Lee’s best interest to compete right now. It’s like nobody watched him this season. I would’ve been shocked to see him do any freestyle this season. 

Brands holding an eager Lee back because of Gilman is just laughable. 

It's hard for people to my initial response....

 

1). I agree that it isn't uncommon for Lee to miss the 2019 summer freestyle circuit due to whatever illness he is getting over. I stated that. 

2). I still don't understand why he missed 2018. I saw a response that stated "he was recovering from an injury". A couple issues I have with that. 1). I highly doubt Brands would put him on the mat anytime during the season for competition if he wasn't 100% healthy, 2). I agree that it would take some time to acclimate to the feeling of your knee and the movements you can do and not do, with all that being said, Lee looked phenomenal at the end of the season. His flexibility in that knee looked 100% at NCAA's and his folkstyle wrestling skills that would translate over into freestyle (takedowns, scrambling, tilts, etc...) looked just as strong as ever. Lee looked like he was 100% in March of 2018. 

Again....Lee has never even wrestled a senior match and hasn't wrestled freestyle since 2016....it's sad to say the least. 

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3 hours ago, MrDream said:

It's hard for people to my initial response....

 

1). I agree that it isn't uncommon for Lee to miss the 2019 summer freestyle circuit due to whatever illness he is getting over. I stated that. 

2). I still don't understand why he missed 2018. I saw a response that stated "he was recovering from an injury". A couple issues I have with that. 1). I highly doubt Brands would put him on the mat anytime during the season for competition if he wasn't 100% healthy, 2). I agree that it would take some time to acclimate to the feeling of your knee and the movements you can do and not do, with all that being said, Lee looked phenomenal at the end of the season. His flexibility in that knee looked 100% at NCAA's and his folkstyle wrestling skills that would translate over into freestyle (takedowns, scrambling, tilts, etc...) looked just as strong as ever. Lee looked like he was 100% in March of 2018. 

Again....Lee has never even wrestled a senior match and hasn't wrestled freestyle since 2016....it's sad to say the least. 

A logical problem with your response: said injury didn't have to happen during the folkstyle season where you would have seen it, nor did it have to involve his knee. There's a couple months between NCAAs and the trials (Lee was already qualified so the open wasn't necessary). He was registered to wrestle overseas in Spain along with Cory Clark and was a very late scratch. Presumably something happened there unrelated to Gilman (Gilman was already on the team at the point and wasn't wrestling at that tournament either).

Too many people are trying to transpose a 2016 drama in the iowa room onto a situation where it doesn't fit. The dynamic between Lee and Gilman is completely different than Ramos/Dennis. Spencer Lee is doing what Spencer Lee wants to do, and apparently that doesn't include wrestling freestyle this summer (as of now).

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I'm not a big FS follower, but how much sway does a college coach have over whether a guy wrestlers FS? It would seem if Spencer Lee said I am going, he would be going. Same with Mark Hall or anyone else.

 

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