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The_MO_Godfather

Missouri's next assistant

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With Sammie Henson just down the road in STL, does he come back to Mizzou to fill the void left by Alex Clemsen?  I don't think Sammie is cut out to be a head coach, but when he was previously the assistant under Brian Smith, the team was in national title contention.

 

Thoughts?

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Henson is a great coach, especially as an assistant, but I don't think he would be my first pick.  That isn't saying he would do well though.  Here are a few names I would look at.  MOST not in any particular order.

My first choice would be to move Joe Johnston to the head assistant or even an associate head coach.  He is a great coach, great guy, and has been there for a while.  However, he may not want that role.

After that, I would go after Logan Stieber hard, especially with his recent retirement.  I think he would be a big get.  I don't know if he has anything locked in, but if not Missouri may be the kind of program he would go to.  I think they pay decent, they have some good kids down low, and isn't hunter at OU? Whether they moved Joe up or not there would be a spot.  The timing of the opening and retiring may make it possible. I think it would be a great place of Logan too if he wants to be a head coach someday.  Spates, Henson, and Alex have all got head jobs after being at Mizzou.

Unlikely, but would be awesome.  Frank Gomez.  It would be highly unlikely as he is preparing for another world and Olympic run.  However, I would be surprised if he continues after this cycle.  With him and Brian Smith both being MSU alum, maybe that connection could help.  He or Steiber would be enormous.  

After that, there is no particular order.

I would look at Jimmy Kennedy too.  He looks to be done competing.  

Kellen Russell.... He is still competing, but probably coming to the end of it.

Jason Chamberlin...  With the number of guys entering his weight at the 70kg, he is going to probably bump down the ladder.  He could be a possibility.

Richard Perry.... I don't know how he is recovering after his terrible situation.  I'm not sure he will be able to make it back to competition. However, I think he would be a great person for Mizzou if he has recovered enough to perform the assistant role. 

Outside the box would be Delgado.  I actually think he would be the perfect fit.  However, his recent resurgence into competition may hamper this.  If not, I think he would be perfect for Missouri.  They consistently have good scramblers.  Delgado I think would fit nicely into a slot for the lightweights. 

 

Missouri has established itself as one of the consistently best programs in the country. They are typically 2 NCAA wins or 1 A.A. away just about every year from being a consistent top 4 teams.  I think they could grab a big name assistant.  I would imagine there are only a handful of schools that can pay their assistants more than what Missouri could. 

 

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I wonder if they would get anybody that is still training as their top assistant, only because they 1) may not be able to dedicate enough time and 2) the Missouri Wrestling Club isn't really star studded outside of Alan Waters and J'Den Cox, so training partners might be scarce.  Logan would be an unbelievable get, as would any of the others that you mentioned.  How likely are we to get him?  I don't really see any of those names having interest in Mizzou, but I could be totally wrong.  While Mizzou is always top 6-10, it doesn't seem that most recognize that.

Edited by The_MO_Godfather

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29 minutes ago, The_MO_Godfather said:

I wonder if they would get anybody that is still training as their top assistant, only because they 1) may not be able to dedicate enough time and 2) the Missouri Wrestling Club isn't really star studded outside of Alan Waters and J'Den Cox, so training partners might be scarce.  Logan would be an unbelievable get, as would any of the others that you mentioned.  How likely are we to get him?  I don't really see any of those names having interest in Mizzou, but I could be totally wrong.  While Mizzou is always top 6-10, it doesn't seem that most recognize that.

And J'Den is not even with the Missouri club right now. I agree that I don't see any of the big names coming to Mizzou, though it would be a great start for anyone wanting a career in coaching. I would love a big name that would help Smith bring in a few extra high level recruits, but expect it to be another Clemsen type or a Mizzou alum that fits Smith's way of doing things.

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1 hour ago, The_MO_Godfather said:

I wonder if they would get anybody that is still training as their top assistant, only because they 1) may not be able to dedicate enough time and 2) the Missouri Wrestling Club isn't really star studded outside of Alan Waters and J'Den Cox, so training partners might be scarce.  

You have to put Eierman on that short list. He has a senior level win over world champ Stieber. 

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1 hour ago, Crotalus said:

And J'Den is not even with the Missouri club right now. I agree that I don't see any of the big names coming to Mizzou, though it would be a great start for anyone wanting a career in coaching. I would love a big name that would help Smith bring in a few extra high level recruits, but expect it to be another Clemsen type or a Mizzou alum that fits Smith's way of doing things.

Agreed.  I wonder if Alan Waters plans to continue competing; I know he has aspirations to continue coaching.  I doubt J'Den will stop competing any time soon.

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1) I think you are correct.  Knowing what I know about Smith, he probably would not want his top assistant still competing. This could be why Joe Johnston was not moved to the top assistant when Clemson came in, but that is pure speculation.  I think Johnston was still competing back then.  That is one of the reasons I could see him moving up now.  Additionally, I don't think there is anyone not competing right now who would be a better fit for Clemson's void, other than Stieber, maybe.  Moving up Johnston, and opening the spot for the number 2 assistant would open things up I think for who Smith would be willing to hire.  Like someone coming to the end of their competition career.  Again, I am pretty sure he doesn't particularly want his top assistant still competing.  For a guy like Gomez, my personal opinion is if it is only one year let him compete.  He would be huge.  Other than maybe Delgado, I think the rest are either ending or coming to an end with their competitive careers.  Next year is the Olympic year. I don't think anyone on that list will make the Olympics at which point they will probably retire.  Chamberlin may try one more world team, depending on where he ends up on the Oly Ladder.

2) While I agree the Missouri Wrestling Club isn't thought of as star stellar, they actually have had a significant amount of success when compared to most programs.  Again, when you remove the top 4, Missouri is at the top of that next pack.  When you break it down, IA, PSU, and tOSU all have 1 guy at the top of the ladder.  OSU could say they have one with JO.  That could potentially change with Nolf, Zain, Nico, and Bo toward the top.  However, I think realistically Nolf is the only one that could make the world team this year of those 4. However, if you track back to Missouri at the USA level you have the following:

At the senior level, I can think of J'Den, Waters, Eireman (3rd on the USA ladder), Lavalle, Mayes, Askren (Olympian), Bradley, Marable (Beat JB).

Notable Juniors off the top of my head: Elam (Junior World Champ), Mocco, Severado, Mauller, O'Toole (incoming), Jaques, Lewis.

I'm not sure any team outside of the top 4 is doing more at that level, but I could be missing something.  Also, when you look at it there are a lot of top guys going elsewhere to train from those major training center. So I think Missouri does a lot better than people realize.  Again, I try to think about the level of insight the competitors have rather than the fans.  I think they probably see and realize that Mizzou is more a quiet success. 

I totally understand that most don't seem to recognize Mizzou as one of the best teams in the country.  However, I think if it is looked at from the perspective of those really embedded in wrestling they probably see it, as to where the average person may not.  I believe Missouri has more top 10 finishes in the last decade than any team outside of the big 4. (tOSU, OSU, IA, PSU).  The competitors have to know that.  So I think from their perspective they would see Mizzou as a top-notch program and a good job to land.   

I can understand why it may seem those guys wouldn't be interested at the surface level, and they may not even think of applying on their own.  However, I think if Smith reached out to them it would pique their interest in a hurry.  According to interviews, I have heard, Metcalf and St. John hadn't considered VT. Nevertheless, when Dresser called them it was a done deal pretty quick. So it may take someone reaching out to them just because they may not even be thinking about it. 

As for Logan.  Unless he has made some kind of commitment to tOSU, I definitely think it would not be outside of the realm of possibility.  I think Smith and Ryan have a good relationship and the programs respect one another.  Roselli left tOSU and hunter left tOSU.  With the line of talented coaches at tOSU, even someone like Logan will be waiting a while to move up if he stays there.  You would have to think if with him retiring he is thinking about his family and future career.  Missouri would a pretty good place to get that started, especially with the recent assistant coaches that have landed head coaching jobs.  

I do think any of the above-mentioned names in my first post could get Missouri over that #5 and #6 hump.  Missouri is certainly primed to leap into the top for a few years in a row.  When you look at what is coming back after the Olympic year you have probably 7 legit A.A. prospects.  Mauller, Jaques, Elam, and Eireman are all back.  You also have O'Toole coming in next year who is an absolute stud.  There are five very likely all-Americans right away.  In addition, you have Koeling and Marriott back along with anyone else they develop.  So I definitely think it would be a good job for anyone, and if approached I think Mizzou could land a pretty big assistant. 

Just my thoughts.

 

 

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5 hours ago, scramble said:

 

 I would look at Jimmy Kennedy too.  He looks to be done competing.  

 

Kennedy announced his retirement a couple years ago and he was just promoted to assistant coach at Northwestern last week.

Edited by Relentless125

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Congrats to Kennedy on that.  

Askren would be great.  However, would he be willing to give up his fighting career?  His name popped in my head, but he is gonna make much more money fighting.  I don't know if the timing is right for him to enter coaching fulltime right now. 

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6 hours ago, scramble said:

1) I think you are correct.  Knowing what I know about Smith, he probably would not want his top assistant still competing. This could be why Joe Johnston was not moved to the top assistant when Clemson came in, but that is pure speculation.  I think Johnston was still competing back then.  That is one of the reasons I could see him moving up now.  Additionally, I don't think there is anyone not competing right now who would be a better fit for Clemson's void, other than Stieber, maybe.  Moving up Johnston, and opening the spot for the number 2 assistant would open things up I think for who Smith would be willing to hire.  Like someone coming to the end of their competition career.  Again, I am pretty sure he doesn't particularly want his top assistant still competing.  For a guy like Gomez, my personal opinion is if it is only one year let him compete.  He would be huge.  Other than maybe Delgado, I think the rest are either ending or coming to an end with their competitive careers.  Next year is the Olympic year. I don't think anyone on that list will make the Olympics at which point they will probably retire.  Chamberlin may try one more world team, depending on where he ends up on the Oly Ladder.

2) While I agree the Missouri Wrestling Club isn't thought of as star stellar, they actually have had a significant amount of success when compared to most programs.  Again, when you remove the top 4, Missouri is at the top of that next pack.  When you break it down, IA, PSU, and tOSU all have 1 guy at the top of the ladder.  OSU could say they have one with JO.  That could potentially change with Nolf, Zain, Nico, and Bo toward the top.  However, I think realistically Nolf is the only one that could make the world team this year of those 4. However, if you track back to Missouri at the USA level you have the following:

At the senior level, I can think of J'Den, Waters, Eireman (3rd on the USA ladder), Lavalle, Mayes, Askren (Olympian), Bradley, Marable (Beat JB).

Notable Juniors off the top of my head: Elam (Junior World Champ), Mocco, Severado, Mauller, O'Toole (incoming), Jaques, Lewis.

I'm not sure any team outside of the top 4 is doing more at that level, but I could be missing something.  Also, when you look at it there are a lot of top guys going elsewhere to train from those major training center. So I think Missouri does a lot better than people realize.  Again, I try to think about the level of insight the competitors have rather than the fans.  I think they probably see and realize that Mizzou is more a quiet success. 

I totally understand that most don't seem to recognize Mizzou as one of the best teams in the country.  However, I think if it is looked at from the perspective of those really embedded in wrestling they probably see it, as to where the average person may not.  I believe Missouri has more top 10 finishes in the last decade than any team outside of the big 4. (tOSU, OSU, IA, PSU).  The competitors have to know that.  So I think from their perspective they would see Mizzou as a top-notch program and a good job to land.   

I can understand why it may seem those guys wouldn't be interested at the surface level, and they may not even think of applying on their own.  However, I think if Smith reached out to them it would pique their interest in a hurry.  According to interviews, I have heard, Metcalf and St. John hadn't considered VT. Nevertheless, when Dresser called them it was a done deal pretty quick. So it may take someone reaching out to them just because they may not even be thinking about it. 

As for Logan.  Unless he has made some kind of commitment to tOSU, I definitely think it would not be outside of the realm of possibility.  I think Smith and Ryan have a good relationship and the programs respect one another.  Roselli left tOSU and hunter left tOSU.  With the line of talented coaches at tOSU, even someone like Logan will be waiting a while to move up if he stays there.  You would have to think if with him retiring he is thinking about his family and future career.  Missouri would a pretty good place to get that started, especially with the recent assistant coaches that have landed head coaching jobs.  

I do think any of the above-mentioned names in my first post could get Missouri over that #5 and #6 hump.  Missouri is certainly primed to leap into the top for a few years in a row.  When you look at what is coming back after the Olympic year you have probably 7 legit A.A. prospects.  Mauller, Jaques, Elam, and Eireman are all back.  You also have O'Toole coming in next year who is an absolute stud.  There are five very likely all-Americans right away.  In addition, you have Koeling and Marriott back along with anyone else they develop.  So I definitely think it would be a good job for anyone, and if approached I think Mizzou could land a pretty big assistant. 

Just my thoughts.

 

 

I think you are overstating the prowess of the Missouri Wrestling Foundation quite a bit. Outside of J'Den, who isn't even training there any longer, they don't have a single wrestler ranked in the top 10 at the senior level. I'm also pretty sure Waters is the only post grad that trains there currently.

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1 hour ago, Missourimatman said:

I think you are overstating the prowess of the Missouri Wrestling Foundation quite a bit. Outside of J'Den, who isn't even training there any longer, they don't have a single wrestler ranked in the top 10 at the senior level. I'm also pretty sure Waters is the only post grad that trains there currently.

Sorry if I'm a little behind on this, but where is J'Den training now?

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1 hour ago, Missourimatman said:

I think you are overstating the prowess of the Missouri Wrestling Foundation quite a bit. Outside of J'Den, who isn't even training there any longer, they don't have a single wrestler ranked in the top 10 at the senior level. I'm also pretty sure Waters is the only post grad that trains there currently.

If you are talking about in the USA, Eirman is 3rd.  I'm sure you are right on Waters.  I don't think this is that unique though.  Many of the guys who have ambitions of making the USA team don't train in rooms that are full of training partners. They get together for training sessions and training camps.  JB did it a Nebraska, prior Green.  I also think you can't completely discount J'Den.  He got both of his Bronze medals while training at Mizzou, and I am pretty sure Askren trained there too on his Olympic Run.  Yes, J'Den went with KJ to the OTC and won gold.  I think that was a smart and great move for him.  I believe it can often help guys after they have been somewhere for a long time to go and get a different perspective. 

Also, I am not talking about the foundation at all.  Just saying that many of their guys have success on the freestyle circuit.  Also, I said Missouri outside of the big 4.  We often talk about the "big time job" being the only place the great ones go too.  That is a myth that is extremely overstated.  There are more great talents and coaches than those 4 programs can hold.  Also, if we are talking about the number of guys in the current top 10 rankings then you have to throw Cornell in there.  They have Dake, Nashon, JO, and probably Yianni after this weekend. Which would mean OSU only has Fix. I think as fans we overstate where many of these greats would go.  I never in a million years thought Metcalf and St. John would go to V-tech, and then got to Iowa State! I mean holy cow; especially Metcalf.  He bled black and gold so much he is still probably wondering how he ended up at ISU.  Who thought Branch would go to Wyoming, Bono to South Dakota, Coleman Scott to the Carolina's etc.  Again, there are only so many coaching slots available and a lot of great prospects.

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2 hours ago, scramble said:

Congrats to Kennedy on that.  

Askren would be great.  However, would he be willing to give up his fighting career?  His name popped in my head, but he is gonna make much more money fighting.  I don't know if the timing is right for him to enter coaching fulltime right now. 

Askren definitely isn't going to be an assistant at Missouri right now. He doesn't have the time to do it, plus he wants to stay in Wisconsin. He has custom built his property to his needs, gets to run his academies, run the Wisconsin RTC and still fight in the UFC (for now). He also does a bunch of podcasts every week, appearances, etc. He would have to give most of that up to be an assistant? No way.

I don't think Askren would accept the head coaching job right now if it was offered (assuming coach Smith retired)

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45 minutes ago, scramble said:

If you are talking about in the USA, Eirman is 3rd.  I'm sure you are right on Waters.  I don't think this is that unique though.  Many of the guys who have ambitions of making the USA team don't train in rooms that are full of training partners. They get together for training sessions and training camps.  JB did it a Nebraska, prior Green.  I also think you can't completely discount J'Den.  He got both of his Bronze medals while training at Mizzou, and I am pretty sure Askren trained there too on his Olympic Run.  Yes, J'Den went with KJ to the OTC and won gold.  I think that was a smart and great move for him.  I believe it can often help guys after they have been somewhere for a long time to go and get a different perspective. 

Also, I am not talking about the foundation at all.  Just saying that many of their guys have success on the freestyle circuit.  Also, I said Missouri outside of the big 4.  We often talk about the "big time job" being the only place the great ones go too.  That is a myth that is extremely overstated.  There are more great talents and coaches than those 4 programs can hold.  Also, if we are talking about the number of guys in the current top 10 rankings then you have to throw Cornell in there.  They have Dake, Nashon, JO, and probably Yianni after this weekend. Which would mean OSU only has Fix. I think as fans we overstate where many of these greats would go.  I never in a million years thought Metcalf and St. John would go to V-tech, and then got to Iowa State! I mean holy cow; especially Metcalf.  He bled black and gold so much he is still probably wondering how he ended up at ISU.  Who thought Branch would go to Wyoming, Bono to South Dakota, Coleman Scott to the Carolina's etc.  Again, there are only so many coaching slots available and a lot of great prospects.

Well you referred to the Missouri Wrestling Club which I believe is the Missouri Wrestling Foundation. Metcalf did an interview on how the move went down. All it took was someone to reach out and pitch the idea, and he made the decision pretty much in the blink of an eye. According to the interview, very few people had approached him about coaching.

 

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Matman, I see the correlation you make with me starting club as it relates to the foundation.  

On Metcalf, crazy right that nobody approached him outside of Dresser really? I saw that interview.  It's why I think Smith should reach out if there is someone he would want.  You never know if they would say yes.  I for one was surprised Metcalf did, but also though my it was awesome he did.   

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15 hours ago, scramble said:

Congrats to Kennedy on that.  

Askren would be great.  However, would he be willing to give up his fighting career?  His name popped in my head, but he is gonna make much more money fighting.  I don't know if the timing is right for him to enter coaching fulltime right now. 

Maybe Max Askren would be a good candidate...

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