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US Open Senior Men's Freestyle discussion thread

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42 minutes ago, alliseeisgold said:

I don't think Nolf is ready but he has upside and Green I think his best days are behind him. 

Maybe I'm misremembering but my impression of James Green is that he runs hot and cold like the weather. I don't know if he's had injuries or weight management challenges over the years, or if it's just a good draw/bad draw thing, but it's tough to predict which version if him you'll see. 

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Nolf made 1 mental error (first noticeable one I've seen him make in 3 years) and it cost him. Had Green dead to rights. 

Gotta give Green credit though. Kept coming, was very savvy. I would wager anyone else in the weight would have lost to Nolf in that situation.  

Idk if Nolf takes the weight this year, but he's coming. This is going to be great rivalry. 

Edited by iGranby

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58 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

Zain is tough as hell, but he is mainly tough as hell beating you senseless on the mat in folkstyle. Freestyle, especially against a guy like Yianni who has a hard six minutes in him every match, doesn't really maximize that physicality. It's less of a grinder's style.

Zain is obviously the favorite and a big test, but I don't think Yianni loses because he gets manhandled.

Zain is a cadet world champ, so he must have some freestyle skill.  He was also our world team member two years ago (when he was still in college).

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19 minutes ago, iGranby said:

Nolf made 1 mental error (first noticeable one I've seen him make in 3 years) and it cost him. Had Green dead to rights. 

Gotta give Green credit though. Kept coming, was very savvy. I would wager anyone else in the weight would have lost to Nolf in that situation.  

Idk if Nolf takes the weight this year, but he's coming. This is going to be great rivalry. 

Green is super good.

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Yanni wins over Retherford imho.  Zane's game it to overwhelm you with his intensity.  Yanni's too much of a professional to get overwhelmed as the others have.  To beat Yanni you're going to have to be explosive or slick enough to take him down without a scramble.  There is no winning the scrambles with this guy I'm sure we can all agree, his counters are other-worldly. I don't see Zane as being the guy to be so slick as to score uncontested TDs on Yanni.  I'm thinking more of an Otoguro. 

As slick as his "D" is, Yanni has an underrated shot.  Seems to take it once per period and it look unremarkable, then you look again and he's finishing it. 

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Well here's my picks for Gold tomorrow

57. Gilman

61. Mega

65. Yianni 

70. Green

74. IMar

79. Dieringer

86. Heflin ( But I would like to see Downey win ). 

92. Nickal

97. Gadson

125. Coooon. 

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Rewatched Green's  4 point takedown of Nolf multiple times.  Don't see the exposure.  Should have only been 2.  Too many subjective calls in freestyle and too much leeway given to refs who constantly interrupt action.  

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2 hours ago, Cradle1 said:

Good point.  We only have six active world champions and nine world medalists. We suck.

No one made that claim explicitly or implicitly.  The Europeans (especially the Russians) are much more deliberative, tactical and technical than Americans who tend to rely  as a generality on pace, conditioning, and sometimes combinations of speed or strength.  Style differences.  

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2 hours ago, iGranby said:

Nolf made 1 mental error (first noticeable one I've seen him make in 3 years) and it cost him. Had Green dead to rights. 

Gotta give Green credit though. Kept coming, was very savvy. I would wager anyone else in the weight would have lost to Nolf in that situation.  

Idk if Nolf takes the weight this year, but he's coming. This is going to be great rivalry. 

Nolf wrestled exactly how Retherford wrestled against the top Russian at Yargin. Controlled the match and shut it down and got beat at the end. What is Cael teaching these guys to do stall at the end ? 

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57: Gilman: he looked great. Destroyed NATO. This may also explain why no Lee.  Lee is not beating this version of Gilman.  Many people, including me keep thinking the next high level wrestler is gonna take Gilman out.  After watching him wreck NATO I believe Gilman is our rep through 20/20

61: Brewer: he gets regularly underestimated.  He is better at freestyle than folkstyle.

65: Zain: I was impressed by yianni, but Zain is so good.  Probably medals at the world's this year. I think we are due for a medal and he is the guy IMO.

70: Green: I do think Nolf will be the World rep though. He will win the trials and meet Green at the final X. 2 out of 3 I feel favors Nolf. 

74: I-Mar: however, Gantt is making huge improvements.  Should be a good one and this outcome could change in the next year or so. 

79: Ringer

86: Heflin

92: Bo: this one I'm really interested in.  Zimmer is dam good at freestyle.  I would not be surprised if Zimmer does win this one.  I have to go with Bo though because of the 4 point potential.  

97: Gadson

125: Coon

 

 

 

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How about Frayer? 7 years removed from competitive wrestling and almost 40 years old and has wrecked quite a few young bucks! I’m a hokie and slightly biased but dude had done really great so far. I’m beginning to wonder how serious he is about competing. If he’s serious, I’d day he need to cut to 70 because of JB

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8 hours ago, alliseeisgold said:

Don't forget about Pico who was like still in high school. JO had no business losing that match. You shouldn't lose to someone that young unless they are far more talented. 

Yianni is a few months older than 20.

Remember that Oliver and Yianni train together, so Oliver knows *everything* that Yianni does...and still couldn't stop him or score on him.  I'll go with more talented.  Koll said that Yianni was ahead of Dake at this stage of their respective careers.

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6 hours ago, Cradle1 said:

Yanni wins over Retherford imho.  Zane's game it to overwhelm you with his intensity.  Yanni's too much of a professional to get overwhelmed as the others have.  To beat Yanni you're going to have to be explosive or slick enough to take him down without a scramble.  There is no winning the scrambles with this guy I'm sure we can all agree, his counters are other-worldly. I don't see Zane as being the guy to be so slick as to score uncontested TDs on Yanni.  I'm thinking more of an Otoguro. 

As slick as his "D" is, Yanni has an underrated shot.  Seems to take it once per period and it look unremarkable, then you look again and he's finishing it. 

I agree with your last statement.  Yanni is getting TD's when he is on his belly and has a leg, just incredible.  His mat awareness is off the charts. 

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After watching Retheford vs Eierman I think it’s a coin flip when it comes to Yianni. Zain won 11-3 but 8 of his points came from feet to back where Eierman was sloppy and there were many times where Zain it himself in jeopardy that Yianni could take advantage of. 

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Saw Valencia vs Gantt. Maybe he looked better in his other matches but Valencia looks, in many ways, exactly as he did his senior year of HS. Still relying almost solely on his athleticism. In a pinch, he’ll try to flying squirrel you.


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1 hour ago, jeffrideal said:

I agree with your last statement.  Yanni is getting TD's when he is on his belly and has a leg, just incredible.  His mat awareness is off the charts. 

I got the pleasure to watch Yianni wrestle live once this year vs VT. His reaction time and flexibility are insane. Mitch Moore had him dead to rights on two TDs but couldn’t convert either one. I haven’t watched him in FS but his success is great for the US team. I assume he may use an Oly redshirt and might be our best 65 guy in quite awhile 

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7 hours ago, dmm53 said:

No one made that claim explicitly or implicitly.  The Europeans (especially the Russians) are much more deliberative, tactical and technical than Americans who tend to rely  as a generality on pace, conditioning, and sometimes combinations of speed or strength.  Style differences.  

When’s the last time you’ve watched Americans?   Times are changing. Russians are much more technical than Guys like Burroughs, Taylor, Dake, Cox and even Yianni?  I think guys like Taylor, Dake and Yianni may be more technical than the Russians. Combine that with being in shape and it’s very hard to deal with. 

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One of the interesting matches on the back side for me was Jayson Ness over Dom Demas. Nice illustration of what great hand fighting can do to keep Demas from getting close enough to use that trip he likes and how to transition that to a low ankle pick. The two throws were also fantastic. 

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Had to break for a while but wanted to comment on the MyMar meltdown.  WTF kind of gutwrench defense was that?  Boxed up in folkstyle bottom position? You can gas, I get it, but what the hell was that positioning?

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1 hour ago, AnklePicker said:

When’s the last time you’ve watched Americans?   Times are changing. Russians are much more technical than Guys like Burroughs, Taylor, Dake, Cox and even Yianni?  I think guys like Taylor, Dake and Yianni may be more technical than the Russians. Combine that with being in shape and it’s very hard to deal with. 

This ^.  Historically, that may be the case about Russian style vs. American, but the times are a changin'.  The Iowa influence has diminished in the development of our freestyle program, and we are now seeing a much more technical and strategic style.  

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8 minutes ago, tightwaist said:

This ^.  Historically, that may be the case about Russian style vs. American, but the times are a changin'.  The Iowa influence has diminished in the development of our freestyle program, and we are now seeing a much more technical and strategic style.  

Somebody yelling "PUSH/PULL" and calling for stalling every 5 seconds doesn't win matches as much?

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Let’s talk Valencia. The guy is a head case.  Or at least he was. Coming out of high school he looked amazing. His first run at junior worlds he beat out imart. Crushed him by tech fall in two of the three times they wrestled. He came close to medaling. He was cocky though and talked as if he was going to be a world champ and four time ncaa champ. He skipped the junior trials while still very eligible having never medaled. He goes seniors and looks good for a young guy is how I’d put it. He showed outrageous poor sportsmanship in freestyle, didn’t AA while his brother took third and then he redshirted and his brother has won two titles to his none. 

Now supposedly rested and ready to rumble he beat Wick in the quarters and lost to Gantt in the semis. That wouldn’t mean a lot except that Wick is really good and Gantt destroyed Massa in the quarters. But Valencia looked exhausted and bewildered vs Gantt and got handled. In the quarters he beat Wick 9-8 but after leading 7-0. In both cases it looked to me like Valencia suffered a combination of gassing and not handling getting scored on. He looked angry and upset when he got knocked into the table - how does JB handle such things? With a minute to go Valencia led 9-6 and appeared to be doing nothing more than hang on for dear life. What’s going on? Rusty? Not conditioned ? Head case? Damn he looks like he could be a world medalist if he put it all together  

* Granted Gantt decimated Massa (10-0 that went like four points feet to back, two points off a blast double, ditto and a push out and another push out all in the first period) and Massa at his best is *really* good. 

** How good is Wick? Pinned Marinelli and then lost to him for third fourth at NCAAs. He lost 5-2 to Lewis in the semis and looked like he might be able to beat him on the right day. 

Edited by BigTimeFan

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3 hours ago, jeffrideal said:

I agree with your last statement.  Yanni is getting TD's when he is on his belly and has a leg, just incredible.  His mat awareness is off the charts. 

What even crazier is who he does it against. I expect the super flexible other worldly talented athletes to pull that off sometimes. 

  

Yianni doing that to top 10ish world level guys is absolutely crazy.   

 Not to mention, he doesn’t rely on those moves. He has solid offense, head hands defense, etc so if he needs to use it during a match, it is just a part of his game. 

 

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5 hours ago, scramble said:

57: Gilman: he looked great. Destroyed NATO. This may also explain why no Lee.  Lee is not beating this version of Gilman.  Many people, including me keep thinking the next high level wrestler is gonna take Gilman out.  After watching him wreck NATO I believe Gilman is our rep through 20/20

61: Brewer: he gets regularly underestimated.  He is better at freestyle than folkstyle.

65: Zain: I was impressed by yianni, but Zain is so good.  Probably medals at the world's this year. I think we are due for a medal and he is the guy IMO.

70: Green: I do think Nolf will be the World rep though. He will win the trials and meet Green at the final X. 2 out of 3 I feel favors Nolf. 

74: I-Mar: however, Gantt is making huge improvements.  Should be a good one and this outcome could change in the next year or so. 

79: Ringer

86: Heflin

92: Bo: this one I'm really interested in.  Zimmer is dam good at freestyle.  I would not be surprised if Zimmer does win this one.  I have to go with Bo though because of the 4 point potential.  

97: Gadson

125: Coon

 

 

 

57 I really hope Lee isn’t sitting out because he isn’t getting the better of Gilman in the room. I can’t imagine that is the reason. What is he protecting in that scenario?

 61 Styles make matches. Brewer can beat good guys but he can also get teched by them. He has some and freestyle losses too. 

70 Agreed. So pumped for this. Nolf only gets better as the match goes on. I’m sure they applies with multiple matches in a row. He eventually figures out what will work that day. Green looked better than he has in over a year. I’m glad we have two medalist level guys fighting for the spot.   

 

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