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Katie

Predict the world team

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Being that Gilman was runner-up to Fix and Fix has the bye to Final X, does Gilman sit in WTT finals? Or does Gilman have to get through the brackets at Trials?

There's a chance Gilman doesn't even make it to Final X.

 

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14 hours ago, cangemi said:

Cejudo would be a surprise. Would shock me.

 

11 hours ago, scramble said:

If I'm not mistaking Cejudo tried to make a comeback once before and didn't finish near the top.  He isn't gonna come back now and make it.  The only past champ that could probably make the team is Cael and a small chance Varner.  Cael would be the only real threat though.  

 

I too would be shocked if he actually made a run at it.  For what it's worth, I don't think Henry was fully committed to training the last time he tried to make a comeback.  He let his weight balloon up and he wasn't in very good shape.  Have you seen the shape that dude is in these days?  

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I’m not sure how Cejudo could manage to make the world team at either 57kg or 61kg.

WTTs are only three weeks before UFC 238 (where Cejudo is fighting Morales at 135 pounds).

Final X, meanwhile, is only one week after UFC 238 (for both 57kg and 61kg).

Then, if Cejudo makes the team, he would apparently have to put MMA on hold until worlds in mid-September.

There seem to be a lot of factors weighing against another Cejudo run at a world title.

 

Edited by Katie

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57 - Fix 

Gilman looked really good all tournament, but he isn’t a lock to make finals x. Vito I think is a tough match for him, plus a few other guys can push him. 

61 - Colon

I think? Could be 1 of 5 guys. Garrett is my guy but I think by WTT he will have only been training fully for 4-6 weeks. I just don’t think it’s enough time, especially at this weight where he will see high level guys across multiple styles.

65 - Yianni

Who knows what he can do at worlds. Really excited to see how this plays out. A few guys can absolutely challenge him domestically, but he only has to beat 1 of them (twice) and he only has to peak for 1 event (2 if you include BTS). I would pick him in the wtt tournament, but it wouldn’t be crazy if he lost there given the talent at 65. He doesn’t have to do that though

70 - Nolf

James Green really messed up by losing to Deakin. Whoever makes Final X will beat Deakin.   There is no way he beats Nolf. No chance he beats Green 2/3. Props to Deakin but he isn’t winning the world team spot  

74 - Burroughs

Excited to see iMar in the best of 3 and then most likely vs Burroughs. IMar is just good enough that Burroughs knows he has to be ready to go to win. IMar isn’t a threat to burroughs when Burroughs is on, but he may score a couple times. 

79 - Dake

Fun weight. I think we see Zahid vs Dake, but Hall or Ringer could beat Zahid. Dake is too good for anyone 2/3. I don’t think there is anyone in the world that beats him 2/3. A few guys could beat him head to head on their best day  

86 - Taylor

Downey would be fun I guess. Maybe an up and comer? 

92 - Cox

not confident at all. Bo is that good. Might change this

97 - Snyder

Meh 

125 - Gwiz

Guys can challenge him. Not a lock but Fjnal X is a huge advantage at this weight

 

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52 minutes ago, Full Nelson said:

Can Ringer beat Dake in best-of-three?      Has Ringer come close to beating him before?

Once it was close. Doesn’t seem likely Ringer pulls it off. He has to first beat Zahid most likely 2/3, then beat Dake 2/3 a few weeks later.

Dake would have to have a down performance for that to happen. Only Burroughs and J’den have  ever beaten Dake 2/3 and J’den was way bigger than him

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1 hour ago, Housebuye said:

Once it was close. Doesn’t seem likely Ringer pulls it off. He has to first beat Zahid most likely 2/3, then beat Dake 2/3 a few weeks later.

Dake would have to have a down performance for that to happen. Only Burroughs and J’den have  ever beaten Dake 2/3 and J’den was way bigger than him

Burroughs has won all three best-of-three series between he and Dake.  Burroughs’s win-loss count in those three series is 2-0, 2-0, 2-1.

As Burroughs himself pointed out on Twitter, he won a gold medal in each of the years he had to get past Dake.

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14 minutes ago, Katie said:

Burroughs has won all three best-of-three series between he and Dake.  Burroughs’s win-loss count in those three series is 2-0, 2-0, 2-1.

As Burroughs himself pointed out on Twitter, he won a gold medal in each of the years he had to get past Dake.

Iron sharpens iron.  I hope Imar elevates JB's game just as Dake did.  

From a team perspective, it's an exciting time.  1st time senior world teamers will be beating our past world medalists or world champs, aside from 65kg.  I think Yianni is going to end the drought at 65kg.  

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Pretty tight consensus all around for the world team. I like @Giovanni 's picks with the confidence %.

No noise for Mekhi Lewis though?  Is he planning on competing? I think JB will be our rep at 74kg but Lewis will win trials.

57kg, I've got Gilman over Fix in 2 straight matches.

61kg, I think it'll be Colon's spot, but Mega will win trials and challenge him at FinalX. Also predicting that Ramos will retire at trials if he doesn't make the world team. I hope he doesn't retire though.

92kg, Bo over J'Den at Finalx just because Nickal is still peaking and has amazing training partners around him.

Edited by pamela

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7 hours ago, lu1979 said:

The only person I can think of that you may be talking about is Cejudo - He has been down at that weight and competing (although not in wrestling) and would be eligible for WTT - have you heard something the rest of us haven't???

Guess we'll have to see at the trials. 

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Well can Ringer beat Dake? You never want to say never, but I am inclined to believe that it's pretty unlikely, especially how Dake raised his game last year, between the Yarygin and the World's. I would say that if Ringer could get into the lineup somewhere, I believe that he is very capable of winning a World medal. 

I think the question is for Ringer is when and how he gets into the lineup, which I believe will be either in 2020, or 2021. One way I see it is in 2020, when Dake goes down and challenges JB, and if Dake prevails, Ringer can go 79's at the World's. Or the other scenario I can see is Dake does not beat JB, and retires. Either way, I really don't believe Dake will compete through another Olympic cycle. 

But even though Dake may move out or retire, that still doesn't mean that Ringer is free and clear, he will have to fend off challenges by Zahid and Marky Hall. ( and who knows who else might be out there as well ). 

The way I see it right now at some weights, a guy may only get one or two shots at making the Senior team, so they need to make the most of their opportunities because there is a lot of talented kids out there waiting for their turn. 

Edited by de4856
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When you look at the projected lineups it seems stupid, cruel even, that there are only six Olympic weights.

Can somebody explain the reasoning?   I suppose a tiny roster favors small countries.

The worst part is so many athletes trying to grow or squeeze their bodies into unnatural sizes.  The second worst part is the amazing athletes who are cut out.

I imagine a hundred years ago there wasn't such a wide range in human sizes, so six categories was plenty.

Edited by Full Nelson

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On 4/27/2019 at 11:52 PM, de4856 said:

57, Gilman, I think he finds a way

61, Colon, Nico and Brewer are good, but this is Colon's time. 

65, Yianni, a new era is upon us.

70, Nolf, the winds have changed. 

74, JB, all day, everyday, until he decides to hang em up. 

79, Dake

86, DT

92, Cox, but I wouldn't be surprised if Bo won. 

97, SnyderMan

125, Gwiz. 

If you throw Coon in as number 2 at heavyweight that gives us several weights with a potential 2 deep world medalist level wrestlers.

Fix/Gilman...Colon/Garrett...Yianni D/Zain...Dake/Dieringer...Nolf/Green...J'Den/Bo ...Gwiz/Coon.  I understand I'm only basing Nolf and Bo on my personal feelings and not what they have shown on the international stage, but I believe in both of them.  I've never seen us this good.  I've followed this sport pretty close since 1968, and we are in high cotton in both freestyle and folkstyle.  No one seems as impressed as I am with the explosion of female wrestling from high school through college.  They may even be the key to us getting in a major conference, like the Big 12 in all schools, or the SEC.  I agree with my little brother on this one.  We seem to be the best we have ever been in high school through international in our lifetime.  

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Hopefully at the WTT we get to see a few other people throw their hat in the ring, that weren't at the Open, guys like Suriano, Ashnault, Lewis, Amine, Zahid, Foster, and even Cassar. I don't know if it would change any of the outcomes predicted by the bloggers on this thread, including my own, but it would be nice to see. I know that there will be a couple of match ups at the upcoming BTS, that will feature Suriano vs Colon, and Taylor vs Drew Foster, as well as some other interesting match ups, so it should be a fun and exciting night of wrestling. But getting back on topic, I would like to see some of the NCAA Champs compete at the WTT. 

I didn't include Spencer Lee, because he was obviously dealing with something over the course of last season, and it may be that he needs time to get right with whatever it was he was dealing with. But someday I do hope to see him standing on the podium at the World's or Olympics. 

 

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13 hours ago, de4856 said:

Well can Ringer beat Dake? You never want to say never, but I am inclined to believe that it's pretty unlikely, especially how Dake raised his game last year, between the Yarygin and the World's. I would say that if Ringer could get into the lineup somewhere, I believe that he is very capable of winning a World medal. 

I think the question is for Ringer is when and how he gets into the lineup, which I believe will be either in 2020, or 2021. One way I see it is in 2020, when Dake goes down and challenges JB, and if Dake prevails, Ringer can go 79's at the World's. Or the other scenario I can see is Dake does not beat JB, and retires. Either way, I really don't believe Dake will compete through another Olympic cycle. 

But even though Dake may move out or retire, that still doesn't mean that Ringer is free and clear, he will have to fend off challenges by Zahid and Marky Hall. ( and who knows who else might be out there as well ). 

The way I see it right now at some weights, a guy may only get one or two shots at making the Senior team, so they need to make the most of their opportunities because there is a lot of talented kids out there waiting for their turn. 

I think Dake will prevail again.  What worries me is that Dake has not competed since Worlds.  Dake has never really been out of tune, even after long lay offs but still would like to see where he is at.  Just from their last match and seeing current Ringer, I feel less confident in Dake vs. Ringer than the rest of the field at 79kg.  The score was tight but I don't feel Zahid ever put Dake in danger at Final X.

I too think Dake hangs em up after 2020.  He is showing more and more interest in coaching and looks to really enjoy it.  

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I'm not so quick to give up Zain(maybe the Pa in me:).  I see him avoiding that single and focusing on double.  Yianni is sick defense if you only have one leg.  Also, I think zain will wrestle a smarter match and be our representative.  With that said, he needs to get thru the WTT first.  I agree with Nolf coming aboard although against pantaleo and don't think Ringer can beat Dake.  I will say that Bo looks extremely strong against these guys.  Machiavelli is a stud and Bo didn't have any issues with his strength.

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23 hours ago, nhs67 said:

I don't think he is saying Bo is the favorite.  I think he is making his picks and admitting that Bo at 30% is not the favorite.  I imagine J'den is at 60 or so for him.

This

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Can you imagine if six guys are Garrett, Yianni, Dake, Nolf, Taylor, and Nickal?  Six of ten from Cornell and PSU?

Also, how often has there been a match in which two 4x NCAA champions are in the corners?  Not to mention that there were five NCAA championships
on the mat for that match.

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11 hours ago, Full Nelson said:

When you look at the projected lineups it seems stupid, cruel even, that there are only six Olympic weights.

Can somebody explain the reasoning?   I suppose a tiny roster favors small countries.

The worst part is so many athletes trying to grow or squeeze their bodies into unnatural sizes.  The second worst part is the amazing athletes who are cut out.

I imagine a hundred years ago there wasn't such a wide range in human sizes, so six categories was plenty.

In 1996 there were ten Olympic freestyle weight classes.  In 1997, I believe, UWW started taking weight classes from both freestyle and Greco to create weight classes for women’s freestyle. 

When wrestling was briefly cut from the Olympics a few years back, one of the IOC’s gripes was that wrestling had by far the worst gender imbalance at the Olympics. 

At the same time, however, the IOC didn’t want to allow more wrestling medals. 

So the UWW went back to the Iab and decided on six medals for freestyle, six for Greco, and six for women’s freestyle. 

That compromise seems to have worked so far. 

Edited by Katie

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22 hours ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

 

 

I too would be shocked if he actually made a run at it.  For what it's worth, I don't think Henry was fully committed to training the last time he tried to make a comeback.  He let his weight balloon up and he wasn't in very good shape.  Have you seen the shape that dude is in these days?  

Yea, he is pretty shredded.  If he made a comeback though I think it would be more likely for 2020 than for the world's. That I could see.i know it would be 12 years but wouldn't he only be like 32 or 33? He was pretty young when he won gold. So he isn't necessarily past his prime, and like you stated his shape is obviously good.

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8 hours ago, de4856 said:

Hopefully at the WTT we get to see a few other people throw their hat in the ring, that weren't at the Open, guys like Suriano, Ashnault, Lewis, Amine, Zahid, Foster, and even Cassar. I don't know if it would change any of the outcomes predicted by the bloggers on this thread, including my own, but it would be nice to see. I know that there will be a couple of match ups at the upcoming BTS, that will feature Suriano vs Colon, and Taylor vs Drew Foster, as well as some other interesting match ups, so it should be a fun and exciting night of wrestling. But getting back on topic, I would like to see some of the NCAA Champs compete at the WTT. 

I didn't include Spencer Lee, because he was obviously dealing with something over the course of last season, and it may be that he needs time to get right with whatever it was he was dealing with. But someday I do hope to see him standing on the podium at the World's or Olympics. 

 

Mekhi Lewis is qualified. Daniel Lewis is not.

I assume you mean Mehki.

Putting Amine into here perplexed me, though. Amine and his older(smaller) brother are both competing for the country San Marino at the international level. Myles Amine had what I though was a fairly strong show for a first international senior level tournament, and up a weight(he went 86kg/189lbs).

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On 4/29/2019 at 11:05 AM, CA_Wrestler said:

From 11 years ago....

Correct me if I am wrong but an Olympic Champion can walk in the night before the trials and register correct? Basically only 3 past Olympic champs are fit enough to try that. Cejudo, Varner or Cael. Would be cool if they all registered. Cael at 213, Varner at 275 and Cejudo at 133 or 125. 

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