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Predict the world team

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1 hour ago, PRyan2012 said:

Correct me if I am wrong but an Olympic Champion can walk in the night before the trials and register correct? Basically only 3 past Olympic champs are fit enough to try that. Cejudo, Varner or Cael. Would be cool if they all registered. Cael at 213, Varner at 275 and Cejudo at 133 or 125. 

Yes, they can, but like I said...that's 11 years ago.  He's in great shape now due to competing in MMA compared to the last time he was at the trials, but I don't believe he would beat Fix or Gilman at this point although I'd like to see that.

At this point,  the only guy that would really have a shot of making the team is Cael.

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1 hour ago, CA_Wrestler said:

Yes, they can, but like I said...that's 11 years ago.  He's in great shape now due to competing in MMA compared to the last time he was at the trials, but I don't believe he would beat Fix or Gilman at this point although I'd like to see that.

At this point,  the only guy that would really have a shot of making the team is Cael.

Varner:  Was recently extremely competitive, so he wouldn't be out of the running.

Cejudo:  Given MMA, I think he would be extremely competitive still

Cael:  Unless he's live rolling consistently (and he may be), I just don't see how he could continue to be competitive (at the highest levels).  Plus, he'd have to beat Captain America.  That's a tall order for ANYONE not named Sadulaev.

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Of those three I think all would be competitive but I doubt they would make it. If Final X were:

 

Cejudo Age 33 vs Fix/Gilman

Cael Age 39! vs Snyder

Varner Age 33 vs Gwiz

 

I would give a slight edge to Varner having the best chance. Cael is now an old man but still can go according to Nickal. How many 39 year olds can medal...none!

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Just now, PRyan2012 said:

Of those three I think all would be competitive but I doubt they would make it. If Final X were:

 

Cejudo Age 33 vs Fix/Gilman

Cael Age 39! vs Snyder

Varner Age 33 vs Gwiz

 

I would give a slight edge to Varner having the best chance. Cael is now an old man but still can go according to Nickal. How many 39 year olds can medal...none!

Masters Division A or B... Easy Gold for Cael.

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9 minutes ago, treep2000 said:

Varner:  Was recently extremely competitive, so he wouldn't be out of the running.

Cejudo:  Given MMA, I think he would be extremely competitive still

Cael:  Unless he's live rolling consistently (and he may be), I just don't see how he could continue to be competitive (at the highest levels).  Plus, he'd have to beat Captain America.  That's a tall order for ANYONE not named Sadulaev.

True I forgot Varner almost beat World silver Big man Coon! Coon needed last second takedown! 

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35 minutes ago, PRyan2012 said:

Of those three I think all would be competitive but I doubt they would make it. If Final X were:

 

Cejudo Age 33 vs Fix/Gilman

Cael Age 39! vs Snyder

Varner Age 33 vs Gwiz

 

I would give a slight edge to Varner having the best chance. Cael is now an old man but still can go according to Nickal. How many 39 year olds can medal...none!

Perhaps 39 will never happen for a US wrestler.

But Chris Campbell did win an Olympic medal when he was almost 38.

Not sure about wrestlers from other countries.

Edited by Katie

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58 minutes ago, treep2000 said:

Varner:  Was recently extremely competitive, so he wouldn't be out of the running.

Cejudo:  Given MMA, I think he would be extremely competitive still

Cael:  Unless he's live rolling consistently (and he may be), I just don't see how he could continue to be competitive (at the highest levels).  Plus, he'd have to beat Captain America.  That's a tall order for ANYONE not named Sadulaev.

I don't think Varner would ever beat Snyder in a best of 3 these days.

 

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35 minutes ago, CA_Wrestler said:

I don't think Varner would ever beat Snyder in a best of 3 these days.

 

Just judging by his dead even match with Coon he would have a shot. At least a small chance. Gadsen has no chance. Snyder beats him by tech almost every time. Just looked at Snyder and Varner's 5 matches. All under 5 points. Snyder winning 4 out of 5. 

Edited by PRyan2012

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The only guys that I think (domestically) could beat Snyder in a best of three right now, MIGHT be Cox or Nickal.  I haven't seen enough proof from anyone else to suggest otherwise.  Some think Cassar, but... I just don't see it, especially if he's sucked back down to 97kg from his carboloading year.

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5 minutes ago, treep2000 said:

The only guys that I think (domestically) could beat Snyder in a best of three right now, MIGHT be Cox or Nickal.  I haven't seen enough proof from anyone else to suggest otherwise.  Some think Cassar, but... I just don't see it, especially if he's sucked back down to 97kg from his carboloading year.

This is what I want to see is Snyder vs Cox and Nickal would be awesome 

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On 4/28/2019 at 9:09 PM, Cradle1 said:

That match between cejudo  and Simmons was one of the best ever.  After such a long lay off I don’t see him getting past Gilman or Fix.

That was an amazing match to watch live. I can't find it online besides a small clip though. Does anyone have it?

Also, Cejudo retired after that loss. Threw his shoes into the crowd and everything. It would be funny to return after that.

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10 hours ago, Katie said:

In 1996 there were ten Olympic freestyle weight classes.  In 1997, I believe, UWW started taking weight classes from both freestyle and Greco to create weight classes for women’s freestyle. 

When wrestling was briefly cut from the Olympics a few years back, one of the IOC’s gripes was that wrestling had by far the worst gender imbalance at the Olympics. 

At the same time, however, the IOC didn’t want to allow more wrestling medals. 

So the UWW went back to the Iab and decided on six medals for freestyle, six for Greco, and six for women’s freestyle. 

That compromise seems to have worked so far. 

If that was their reason it's pretty frustrating considering how many medals are awarded to every random sidestroke in swimming and the ballerina dancing in gymnastics.

I thought it was more about how many overall competitors would be at the event though. Adding weights significantly increased the amount of participants. The only other fix to that was further reduction in the amount of wrestlers per weight but its already reduced from Worlds and it limits diverse country participation.

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23 hours ago, PRyan2012 said:

Just judging by his dead even match with Coon he would have a shot. At least a small chance. Gadsen has no chance. Snyder beats him by tech almost every time. Just looked at Snyder and Varner's 5 matches. All under 5 points. Snyder winning 4 out of 5. 

Yeah, I remember all of the Varner/Snyder matches, but youth wins at this point.  Gadsen definitely has no chance.

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I agree about the injustice of cutting down from 10 weights to 6 for the Olympics to make medal room for women's wrestling.  If the Olympic Committee wants to free up some gold medals get rid of some of the swimming events.  Swimming is the most OVERREPRESENTED sport in the Olympics.  You could eliminate 20 swimming events and there would still be too many swimming events.   There are some also other aquatic events you could eliminate that few people watch.  The only reason some water sports are even in the Olympics is that someone with a lot of political juice pushes the sport through the Olympic Committees.

 

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On 4/30/2019 at 8:12 AM, Katie said:

In 1996 there were ten Olympic freestyle weight classes.  In 1997, I believe, UWW started taking weight classes from both freestyle and Greco to create weight classes for women’s freestyle. 

When wrestling was briefly cut from the Olympics a few years back, one of the IOC’s gripes was that wrestling had by far the worst gender imbalance at the Olympics. 

At the same time, however, the IOC didn’t want to allow more wrestling medals. 

So the UWW went back to the Iab and decided on six medals for freestyle, six for Greco, and six for women’s freestyle. 

That compromise seems to have worked so far. 

Thanks for the explanation.

I don't agree that this compromise is working.   Whether it is justified is harder to say.

6 weight classes is certainly not enough given the large numbers of athletes in men's freestyle/folkstyle, especially considering youth.

Greco and especially women's wrestling are niche sports in comparison.


 

 

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9 minutes ago, Full Nelson said:

Thanks for the explanation.

I don't agree that this compromise is working.   Whether it is justified is harder to say.

6 weight classes is certainly not enough given the large numbers of athletes in men's freestyle/folkstyle, especially considering youth.

Greco and especially women's wrestling are niche sports in comparison.


 

 

The compromise worked to get wrestling back in the Olympics. I agree that six Olympic men's freestyle medals is too few.

Among male athletes, Greco is actually a bit more popular than freestyle worldwide. But when you add women's freestyle in, freestyle is clearly the more popular style.

In my opinion, Greco should be kicked out of the Olympics. They never developed a women's side -- and that is a huge problem for the modern Olympic brand. I'd rather see ten men's freestyle weight classes, and eight women's.

Edited by Katie

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On 5/1/2019 at 7:33 PM, gmdband said:

I agree about the injustice of cutting down from 10 weights to 6 for the Olympics to make medal room for women's wrestling.  If the Olympic Committee wants to free up some gold medals get rid of some of the swimming events.  Swimming is the most OVERREPRESENTED sport in the Olympics.  You could eliminate 20 swimming events and there would still be too many swimming events.   There are some also other aquatic events you could eliminate that few people watch.  The only reason some water sports are even in the Olympics is that someone with a lot of political juice pushes the sport through the Olympic Committees.

 

While I agree with you about swimming, the TV networks who pay billions for the TV rights do not. They show so much swimming because the viewers want to see it and the sponsors are willing to buy ad time

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16 minutes ago, Jim L said:

While I agree with you about swimming, the TV networks who pay billions for the TV rights do not. They show so much swimming because the viewers want to see it and the sponsors are willing to buy ad time

Because swimming is like track.  You don't have to know anything about it to understand it. The fastest person gets to the finish line first. The person who gets there first wins.  The end.  Now there is much more to it from the athlete side, but for the fan it is simple.  For many viewers wrestling is harder to understand because of the scoring options and scenarios.

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11 hours ago, Katie said:

The compromise worked to get wrestling back in the Olympics. I agree that six Olympic men's freestyle medals is too few.

Among male athletes, Greco is actually a bit more popular than freestyle worldwide. But when you add women's freestyle in, freestyle is clearly the more popular style.

In my opinion, Greco should be kicked out of the Olympics. They never developed a women's side -- and that is a huge problem for the modern Olympic brand. I'd rather see ten men's freestyle weight classes, and eight women's.

I wore out my google machine trying to find stats about Greco vrs Freestyle worldwide.   Just found generalities that freestyle rules in Western hemisphere, Japan and western Europe.   Big wrestling countries like Turkey, Iran, Russia are big on Greco.    There were some old graphs in the below thread saying that freestyle is growing, Greco is declining.

I think your proposal is better than current situation.   I imagine it would be very hard to get agreement.
I am upset by the unfairness of forcing athletes to shoe-horn their bodies into just 6 weight classes.   It's a bit worse for men because they have a larger size range and there are so many competitors.   It's a lot like telling basketball, "OK, you can keep your sport in the Olympics, but you have to play with 4-man teams, and they have to play wearing boots."    There has to be a way to have 10 free style weight classes.
 

 

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9 hours ago, scramble said:

Because swimming is like track.  You don't have to know anything about it to understand it. The fastest person gets to the finish line first. The person who gets there first wins.  The end.  Now there is much more to it from the athlete side, but for the fan it is simple.  For many viewers wrestling is harder to understand because of the scoring options and scenarios.

Frankly, scoring in wrestling is hard to follow even for hardcore wrestling fans.   I doubt this problem will ever get fixed, reffing is inherently subjective, especially the current cluster-f we call college wrestling.

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14 hours ago, Katie said:

The compromise worked to get wrestling back in the Olympics. I agree that six Olympic men's freestyle medals is too few.

Among male athletes, Greco is actually a bit more popular than freestyle worldwide. But when you add women's freestyle in, freestyle is clearly the more popular style.

In my opinion, Greco should be kicked out of the Olympics. They never developed a women's side -- and that is a huge problem for the modern Olympic brand. I'd rather see ten men's freestyle weight classes, and eight women's.

Greco is the last thing that should be kicked out of the olympics.  For one it is the most popular style worldwide.  2 it is the closest thing there is to the original Olympic deciding contest.  I could not disagree with anything more than Greco should be kicked out of the olympics.

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