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MSU158

Cass big over Nevills

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4 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

There was a pretty big argument on this board for some time over the 2 as recruits. Does that result decisively end that?  Also, does PSU go a different route after Cassar?

The last double for 4 shook the building. Highly recommend watching this match if you want to see a high level heavyweight at work. If he wasn't coming up in an era of such elite heavyweight talent, he would be one of next year's most anticipated recruits. Great mix of technique, speed, power, and physicality. He also opened the match with a single leg into a lace that looked like a 65 kg guy working. And Nevills isn't chopped liver either. He beat Hemida this year and has some nice skills for a big guy too. We're about to witness a golden era of heavyweight.

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15 hours ago, MSU158 said:

There was a pretty big argument on this board for some time over the 2 as recruits. Does that result decisively end that?  Also, does PSU go a different route after Cassar?

Nevills is still a great prospect.  One butt kicking  at the hands of another great prospect does not negate that.

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When I watch FS I wonder how it translates. FS turns to me can be a momentum type of thing. In Folk when you turn someone it "feels" like there is more control and imposition of will. I know that can be argued that is just as difficult as a tilt that cannot lead to a pin. It is just when I see a guy take someone down and then spin them around the circumference of the mat for a tech it seems weird and less dominant to me.

The good news is all wrestling fans are the winners in that 285 is no longer an escape and ride out every match. 

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16 hours ago, MSU158 said:

There was a pretty big argument on this board for some time over the 2 as recruits. Does that result decisively end that?  Also, does PSU go a different route after Cassar?

What other direction would they go?  Gable, Schultz, Cass, Parris, Kerkvliet have all been scooped up, and there aren't really any elite standout heavyweight recruits in the class of '20 and '21.

Nevills still looks like a lock to AA multiple times, and thanks to the ol' double redshirt program he's on he'll probably be a 4x AA.  He's just not likely to win titles and be one of PSU's horses in the same way Taylor, Ruth, Nolf, Nickal were.  Still a guy you want in your lineup, though.  

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36 minutes ago, JeanGuy said:

When I watch FS I wonder how it translates. FS turns to me can be a momentum type of thing. In Folk when you turn someone it "feels" like there is more control and imposition of will. I know that can be argued that is just as difficult as a tilt that cannot lead to a pin. It is just when I see a guy take someone down and then spin them around the circumference of the mat for a tech it seems weird and less dominant to me.

The good news is all wrestling fans are the winners in that 285 is no longer an escape and ride out every match. 

I can't stand FS because there is such a huge component of luck in it. Maybe luck isn't the right word for it, but with the right takedown you can literally just roll over a few times and rack up 10-0. I remember wrestling FS for the first time in HS and being shocked at how easy it was to just crush guys. Lock up their head/shoulders, and just roll. Weak. I developed an immediate disliking for FS even though I was very good at it (I preferred to grind guys to dust with my mat skills :D ). The FS scoring system is poor, imo. As bad as that is the bracketing for FS international tournaments is even worse (I far prefer double elimination).

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28 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

What other direction would they go?  Gable, Schultz, Cass, Parris, Kerkvliet have all been scooped up, and there aren't really any elite standout heavyweight recruits in the class of '20 and '21.

Nevills still looks like a lock to AA multiple times, and thanks to the ol' double redshirt program he's on he'll probably be a 4x AA.  He's just not likely to win titles and be one of PSU's horses in the same way Taylor, Ruth, Nolf, Nickal were.  Still a guy you want in your lineup, though.  

I thought Nevills was a Sr this year?

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3 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

We're talking about Seth Nevills, Nick's younger brother.  He took a greyshirt this year and will use his standard redshirt year next year at PSU.  

ah...thanks, my bad.

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48 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

What other direction would they go?  Gable, Schultz, Cass, Parris, Kerkvliet have all been scooped up, and there aren't really any elite standout heavyweight recruits in the class of '20 and '21.

Nevills still looks like a lock to AA multiple times, and thanks to the ol' double redshirt program he's on he'll probably be a 4x AA.  He's just not likely to win titles and be one of PSU's horses in the same way Taylor, Ruth, Nolf, Nickal were.  Still a guy you want in your lineup, though.  

Maybe he gets Schultz to transfer?  Seriously though,  getting whooped like that by Cass definitely effects the "lock" you are giving him.  Going into next season Cass is still going to be behind Cassar, Gable and Wood.  After that he will still most likely be battling it out with Hillger, Stencel and Parris for that next tier.  Cassar would be replaced by S. Nevills the following year and you will then have Kerkvliet and Schultz in the mix.

If Cass is possibly 2nd tier in that mix, Nevills being that far behind him most likely puts him behind the guys I listed.  In that field, he is going to be hard pressed to AA.

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8 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

Maybe he gets Schultz to transfer?  Seriously though,  getting whooped like that by Cass definitely effects the "lock" you are giving him.  Going into next season Cass is still going to be behind Cassar, Gable and Wood.  After that he will still most likely be battling it out with Hillger, Stencel and Parris for that next tier.  Cassar would be replaced by S. Nevills the following year and you will then have Kerkvliet and Schultz in the mix.

If Cass is possibly 2nd tier in that mix, Nevills being that far behind him most likely puts him behind the guys I listed.  In that field, he is going to be hard pressed to AA.

Fair point.  He's not a lock--I think he probably will AA at least a couple times but  4x AA is probably overzealous, especially considering the somewhat unprecedented young talent we have entering the weight class in just a couple year window.  

I always felt the same way about his brother, they're solid wrestlers, but they're high floor/low ceiling kind of guys.  Maybe that's a little harsh given that Nick struggled with some injuries but I don't see Seth leapfrogging many guys from that group that are already ahead of him.  

Edited by steamboat_charlie v2

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19 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

Cassar would be replaced by S. Nevills the following year and you will then have Kerkvliet and Schultz in the mix.

Don’t surprised if Schultz takes an Oly RS this upcoming year, then a regular RS the year after.  Perhaps even a greyshirt in between.  

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1 hour ago, fudge_tunnel said:

Don’t surprised if Schultz takes an Oly RS this upcoming year, then a regular RS the year after.  Perhaps even a greyshirt in between.  

ASU will need him in 2021. He will be in the lineup by then. 

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3 hours ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

What other direction would they go?  Gable, Schultz, Cass, Parris, Kerkvliet have all been scooped up, and there aren't really any elite standout heavyweight recruits in the class of '20 and '21.

Nevills still looks like a lock to AA multiple times, and thanks to the ol' double redshirt program he's on he'll probably be a 4x AA.  He's just not likely to win titles and be one of PSU's horses in the same way Taylor, Ruth, Nolf, Nickal were.  Still a guy you want in your lineup, though.  

Nevills isnt going to compare to any of those 4 lol. To be fair not many people do though

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1) Gable

2) Kerk, Schultz, Cass

3) Parris, Nevills, Elam

Very talented group of guys. Hopefully they all stay healthy. Throw in Wood, Hillger, and Stencel and it should be a fun few years at HWT

 

 

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2 hours ago, Hwkfan4life said:

Nevills isnt going to compare to any of those 4 lol. To be fair not many people do though

But I read on here not too long ago that Nevills, along with Brooks and Beard, are going to win 9+ titles combined?

Edited by Dondante88

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14 minutes ago, simple said:

1) Gable

2) Kerk, Schultz, Cass

3) Parris, Nevills, Elam

Very talented group of guys. Hopefully they all stay healthy. Throw in Wood, Hillger, and Stencel and it should be a fun few years at HWT

 

 

You are putting Parris and Elam over guys that AA'd in the same bracket as them?  Also, it's not like Wood, Hillger or Stencel had years upon years of added experience and they should just leapfrog them next year.  Wood was a RSSO.  Stencel was also a RSSO and Hillger was a RSFR.

Maybe I misread that as tiers, but if it was, Parris Nevills and Elam belong a tier below those you added at the end.

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12 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

You are putting Parris and Elam over guys that AA'd in the same bracket as them?  Also, it's not like Wood, Hillger or Stencel had years upon years of added experience and they should just leapfrog them next year.  Wood was a RSSO.  Stencel was also a RSSO and Hillger was a RSFR.

Maybe I misread that as tiers, but if it was, Parris Nevills and Elam belong a tier below those you added at the end.

I agree with you. I was only including 2018 & 2019 HS grads in the tiers.

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17 hours ago, Dondante88 said:

But I read on here not too long ago that Nevills, along with Brooks and Beard, are going to win 9+ titles combined?

I believe you're quoting me and I said between the three of them they would win 14 titles.

If you're going to be a ponce at least be the right sort of ponce.

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18 hours ago, simple said:

1) Gable

2) Kerk, Schultz, Cass

3) Parris, Nevills, Elam

Very talented group of guys. Hopefully they all stay healthy. Throw in Wood, Hillger, and Stencel and it should be a fun few years at HWT

 

 

I think this is close.  Though I might add Parris to tier 2 and start out Schultz in tier 3.  

 

1) Gable

1.5) Kerk (injuries only concern here)

2) Parris, Cass, Wood

3) Schultz, Nevills, Stencel, Hillger, Cardenas (sorry Lewis Fernandes fans)

 

Assuming Amos and Ferrari at 197.  

Edited by LemonPie

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Curious question: Why is Kerk not tier 1 and why is Schultz ranked over him on P4P and Heavyweight rankings for this scholastic season?

220lb Kerk gave Gable all he could handle a year ago. Kerk was much less of a polished product than Steveson was.

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1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

.... and why is Schultz ranked over him on P4P and Heavyweight rankings for this scholastic season?

How many matches did Kerk wrestle this past season?  

Schultz won the Walsh Ironman, Reno TOC & Doc Buchanan (all of this tournaments repeatedly), was undefeated (again), was a 4x CO state champion (never lost to a CO wrestler).    He has a case to be the #1 ranked HWT

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