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Let’s begin the Cox/Nickal discussion now

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15 hours ago, kgschalhoub said:

"Saduleuv is 22/23"

Yes, in Russian years.

And he's been dominating grown men since.....what.....2014? 

That debate is very tiresome.

Please, move on to him being on PEDs now. There's a topic where you can get all American fanboys together!! 

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On 5/1/2019 at 8:31 PM, Katie said:

Looking purely at last year’s results, you can easily have a discussion between Sadulaev and Taylor as the best wrestler p4p. 

I’d put Sadulaev at #1 based on his sensational run at worlds. But he did have close matches earlier in the year. 

No you can’t.

 

Sadulaev pinned the previous #1 in the finals. Taylor was fantastic but he doesn’t have anything in his resume to warrant a discussion of him being above Sadulaev. 

Edited by wamba

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2 hours ago, wamba said:

 

No you can’t.

 

Sadulaev pinned the previous #1 in the finals. Taylor was fantastic but he doesn’t have anything in his resume to warrant a discussion of him being above Sadulaev. 

Ok so your point is that no one can discuss which of two undefeated world champs had the better year. Cool.

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You know what I didn't see coming?  When you get guys on our world team that you really love and pull for and then suddenly we have other guys that you've followed their career trying to take your guy out... It's like you don't want either one of them to lose.   I coached against Bo's dad when he was in Colorado back in the 90's.  An amazing man, and I will never pull against his boy.  J'Den is just the greatest example ever of a world champion being under-appreciated.  Somehow, it's almost like he's invisible with the incredible world team roster.  Good times.

 

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12 hours ago, Katie said:

Ok so your point is that no one can discuss which of two undefeated world champs had the better year. Cool.

You can discuss it but it would be an illogical and incorrect stance. It’s clear who the P4P #1 is and it’s not Taylor.

Sadulaev pinned the previous P4P #1 in the finals. His dominance, resume and results surpass Taylor. As someone else pointed out as impressive as Taylor was at the world championships Sadulaev easily surpassed him.

Saduluev - Tech, Tech, Tech, Tech, and Pin

DT - Decision (11-6), Tech, Decision (8-0), Decision (7-5), and Tech

It’s obvious Sadulaev is #1 and that’s no slight on Taylor because he’s had an outstanding year and is one of the best wrestlers in the world even if he isn’t above Sadulaev.

Taylor is my favorite wrestler in the world so I’m not trying to drag him down.

Edited by wamba

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7 hours ago, wamba said:

You can discuss it but it would be an illogical and incorrect stance. It’s clear who the P4P #1 is and it’s not Taylor.

Sadulaev pinned the previous P4P #1 in the finals. His dominance, resume and results surpass Taylor. As someone else pointed out as impressive as Taylor was at the world championships Sadulaev easily surpassed him.

Saduluev - Tech, Tech, Tech, Tech, and Pin

DT - Decision (11-6), Tech, Decision (8-0), Decision (7-5), and Tech

It’s obvious Sadulaev is #1 and that’s no slight on Taylor because he’s had an outstanding year and is one of the best wrestlers in the world even if he isn’t above Sadulaev.

Taylor is my favorite wrestler in the world so I’m not trying to drag him down.

I’m not saying Taylor had the better year or even arguably had the better year. (I even said up front I thought Sadulaev had the better year.)

I’m just saying the topic can be discussed.  For example, you just discussed the issue. And I’m sure your discussion was helpful to people who weren’t familiar with how they compared last year. 

Edited by Katie

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13 minutes ago, headshuck said:

Olympic gold medals. Can we use that yardstick? But then again, Hodge trophies are special. Tayler has 2 and Varner none.

 

Taylor is my favorite wrestler since it appears Varner is retired. I would honestly put Varner ahead of Taylor. Cox ahead of Taylor. Snyder, Dake and Burroughs ahead of Taylor. Well maybe not Dake:-) And yes Sad ahead of all of those guys. It is not even close on who is P4P. Taylor is my favorite guy and he maybe P4P after Tokyo but right now it is Sad. In the next two years we may have Cox and Nickal going against Sad! Team USA over the last two years and heading into this year is the best group/team I have ever seen! To be honest I have goose bumps thinking about Cox vs Nickal. Hope it lives up to the hype!

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On 5/2/2019 at 10:54 AM, Shiraz123 said:

Yazdani:

  - Embarrassed in 70kg world finals 2015

  - Fluke win over Geduev who was losing his life in the middle of an Olympic gold medal match 

- "Won" an incredibly weak 86kg class in 2017 since Sadulaev got bored and decided to go up and beat Snyder 

- Embarrassed himself in 2018 worlds 

Am I seriously supposed to sit here and think Yazdani is a good win? 

this is some grade A trolling

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12 hours ago, headshuck said:

Olympic gold medals. Can we use that yardstick? But then again, Hodge trophies are special. Tayler has 2 and Varner none.

 

Sadulaev has none, as well. He was never even in contention for one. That knocks him down a notch in my book.

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6 minutes ago, MrDream said:

Just think about this....

 

When DT was 22/23 he was beating Tyler Caldwell 5-2

 

When Saduluev was 22/23 he was pinning Kyle Snyder

 

Let that sink in....

I think you need to take a cue from Elsa and just "let it go".  I don't think anyone is saying that DT is better, P4P, than Sadulaev, due to the reasons you have now listed on what may be 5 or 6 different posts.  

I think the argument is that DT is "in the conversation", meaning, he's probably Top 2-4 P4P, behind Sadulaev, and it's due to all of the other poster's responses.  He's had a two year stretch that's pretty darn impressive.  Diminishing Yazdani's accomplishments, and then DT's victories over him, is a bit silly.  It's like saying that since Snyder lost at Yarygin, Sadulaev should take a hit.  Really?  

You are clearly on the Sadulaev bandwagon.  I think you should meet him.  Maybe offer him a glass of Chardonnay.  See if you have some things in common.  

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Sadulaev: world champ at 86 kg. World champ at 97 kg (despite weighing less). 

DT: world champ at 86 kg. Did not make the team at 74 kg. Has never beaten the world champ at 79 kg despite many tries. Has a 2-1 losing record to the world champ at 92 kg. 

“Pound for pound.” There is no discussion. 

Most dominant champ at their current weight? There is a discussion but still the same answer. 

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Back to Cox/Nickal. I think Nickal has a legit shot. But he is most dominant from a tie-up and Cox doesn’t need a tie to school you. This could be the difference. Nickal had problems with Zahid in freestyle and although that was a while ago, the stylistic similarities between Cox and Zahid (both long-limbed shifty wrestlers who can wrestle their best from space and have excellent defense) do not bode well for Nickal. 

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8 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

Back to Cox/Nickal. I think Nickal has a legit shot. But he is most dominant from a tie-up and Cox doesn’t need a tie to school you. This could be the difference. Nickal had problems with Zahid in freestyle and although that was a while ago, the stylistic similarities between Cox and Zahid (both long-limbed shifty wrestlers who can wrestle their best from space and have excellent defense) do not bode well for Nickal. 

I thought the same, but the Nickal we saw at the US Open though was on a different level than I was expecting.  My gut is telling me he's going to win but my head is reminding me what's happened in the past when I've bet against J'den.  

I agree that Nickal will struggle to score as Cox will stay out of most ties, but I think Cox is going to struggle to score as well.  

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I could see Nickal getting several ankle picks on J'den, since he tends to leave his feet within reach with his unorthodox movements.  However, finishing those picks is a different story. J'den WILL score on a go behind at some point.

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I think you need to take a cue from Elsa and just "let it go".  I don't think anyone is saying that DT is better, P4P, than Sadulaev, due to the reasons you have now listed on what may be 5 or 6 different posts.  

I think the argument is that DT is "in the conversation", meaning, he's probably Top 2-4 P4P, behind Sadulaev, and it's due to all of the other poster's responses.  He's had a two year stretch that's pretty darn impressive.  Diminishing Yazdani's accomplishments, and then DT's victories over him, is a bit silly.  It's like saying that since Snyder lost at Yarygin, Sadulaev should take a hit.  Really?  

You are clearly on the Sadulaev bandwagon.  I think you should meet him.  Maybe offer him a glass of Chardonnay.  See if you have some things in common.  

Chardonnay? Abdulrashid doesn't drink alcohol.

 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, cangemi said:

I keep wondering if Cox has to much horse power for Nickal.

Can he finish on Cox?

Is a pinfall considered a finish?

If so, then yes.

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