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Let’s begin the Cox/Nickal discussion now

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58 minutes ago, mspart said:

Maybe Taylor was the best P4P last year as he wrecked everyone.  But that is one year, albeit, a fantastic one.  Taylor has one World medal over the past 4 years.  Sad has 4 world medals over the last 4 years.  Snyder has 4 world medals over the last 4 years.  And all three have been active the last 4 years.  Taylor just came into his own last year and was a wrecking ball.  Very exciting to watch. 

mspart

See...that's where we disagree. 

I believe Sadulaev's 2018 campaign was more impressive than DT's. 

20-0 with a 65% tech/pin rate and teched/pinned everyone he wrestled at World's....including Mr. Snyder. 

Believe me, I'm a huge Taylor fan(wrestles how I believe everyone should....SCORE!), it's just a little nauseating and unbecoming to hear people beat their chest about him for....ONE year and now people are putting him in some P4P ranking.

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3 hours ago, MrDream said:

See...that's where we disagree. 

I believe Sadulaev's 2018 campaign was more impressive than DT's. 

20-0 with a 65% tech/pin rate and teched/pinned everyone he wrestled at World's....including Mr. Snyder. 

Believe me, I'm a huge Taylor fan(wrestles how I believe everyone should....SCORE!), it's just a little nauseating and unbecoming to hear people beat their chest about him for....ONE year and now people are putting him in some P4P ranking.

Any P4P ranking that doesn’t have Taylor on the list is a joke. Rankings are a snapshot, how good people are TODAY not what their trophy case looks like. Nobody who watched last year’s world championships should leave him off a P4P list. He’s not #1 but he absolutely needs to be on the list based on the last 12-18 months.

He only has one world medal because he’s only made one senior world team...and that’s because for years the #1 P4P wrestler in the world was an American at his weight. Aside from Burroughs the only other 2 guys that have beat him (Dake and Cox) are also reigning world champions.

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Any P4P ranking that doesn’t have Taylor on the list is a joke. Rankings are a snapshot, how good people are TODAY not what their trophy case looks like. Nobody who watched last year’s world championships should leave him off a P4P list. He’s not #1 but he absolutely needs to be on the list based on the last 12-18 months.
He only has one world medal because he’s only made one senior world team...and that’s because for years the #1 P4P wrestler in the world was an American at his weight. Aside from Burroughs the only other 2 guys that have beat him (Dake and Cox) are also reigning world champions.
He's on the lb for lb ranking, just not in the top ten.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

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14 minutes ago, MDogg said:

Any P4P ranking that doesn’t have Taylor on the list is a joke. Rankings are a snapshot, how good people are TODAY not what their trophy case looks like. Nobody who watched last year’s world championships should leave him off a P4P list. He’s not #1 but he absolutely needs to be on the list based on the last 12-18 months.

He only has one world medal because he’s only made one senior world team...and that’s because for years the #1 P4P wrestler in the world was an American at his weight. Aside from Burroughs the only other 2 guys that have beat him (Dake and Cox) are also reigning world champions.

I agree he should be on a P4P list.....just not "arguably" the best. 

Current List (In my opinion)

1). Sadulaev

2). Snyder

3). Sidakova

4). Dake

5). Gazi

6). Uguev

7). Rashidov

8). Burroughs

9). Cox

10). Akgul

11). Petra

12). Hasanov (Maybe a stretch, but he wrestled Dake VERY tough at the WC)

Then you start getting into guys bursting onto the scene or guys with a couple World Medals(In no order)....Otoguro, Bjarang, Bonne, Chakaev, DT, Kentchazde, Yazdani, Takahashi, Valdes. 

I'm sure there are guys I'm leaving off. 

All of these guys are either multiple time World Medalists or bursted onto the scene and took down a major factor at their respective weight. In my rating, I always give the nod to a guy who has multiple medals AND doesn't show that age is deterring their performance. I could see how someone could put DT in front of Hasnaov, but I don't see how he can jump 1-11. 

Again.....this is my opinion. 

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21 minutes ago, MDogg said:

Any P4P ranking that doesn’t have Taylor on the list is a joke. Rankings are a snapshot, how good people are TODAY not what their trophy case looks like. Nobody who watched last year’s world championships should leave him off a P4P list. He’s not #1 but he absolutely needs to be on the list based on the last 12-18 months.

He only has one world medal because he’s only made one senior world team...and that’s because for years the #1 P4P wrestler in the world was an American at his weight. Aside from Burroughs the only other 2 guys that have beat him (Dake and Cox) are also reigning world champions.

Correct. Aside from Sadulaev, who had a better 2018 than Taylor? I can’t think of any off the top of my head. 

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34 minutes ago, cjc007 said:

He's on the lb for lb ranking, just not in the top ten.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 

That's a bit ridiculous. The dude has smashed everybody except for Cox (a 3x medalist and 1x champ) for two years. Any list that doesn't have him in the top 10 is just ludicrous.

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9 minutes ago, Katie said:

Correct. Aside from Sadulaev, who had a better 2018 than Taylor? I can’t think of any off the top of my head. 

Serious question....do you watch any international freestyle that doesn't involve the US? 

Guys who had impressive 2018's

SIdakova - Only loss was to Tsabolov and he took down Burroughs at the World Championships. 

Otoguro - Undefeated. Beat Chakaev and Bajarang at the World Championships. Oh yeah...he's 19. 

There's two off the top of my head that had unreal years at tough weights. 

Edited by MrDream

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17 minutes ago, MrDream said:

I agree he should be on a P4P list.....just not "arguably" the best. 

Current List (In my opinion)

1). Sadulaev

2). Snyder

3). Sidakova

4). Dake

5). Gazi

6). Uguev

7). Rashidov

8). Burroughs

9). Cox

10). Akgul

11). Petra

12). Hasanov (Maybe a stretch, but he wrestled Dake VERY tough at the WC)

Then you start getting into guys bursting onto the scene or guys with a couple World Medals(In no order)....Otoguro, Bjarang, Bonne, Chakaev, DT, Kentchazde, Yazdani, Takahashi, Valdes. 

I'm sure there are guys I'm leaving off. 

All of these guys are either multiple time World Medalists or bursted onto the scene and took down a major factor at their respective weight. In my rating, I always give the nod to a guy who has multiple medals AND doesn't show that age is deterring their performance. I could see how someone could put DT in front of Hasnaov, but I don't see how he can jump 1-11. 

Again.....this is my opinion. 

Dake has also only wrestled in 1 world championships and yet he is 4th. Same with Sidakov. Gazi as well and he didn't even make the finals. Uguev only has 2 and was 0-1 in his first attempt. Taylor has a tech fall win over Hasanov. Your list is very bad and this is a very poor troll attempt.

 

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4 hours ago, MrDream said:

Serious question....do you watch any international freestyle that doesn't involve the US? 

Guys who had impressive 2018's

SIdakova - Only loss was to Tsabolov and he took down Burroughs at the World Championships. 

Otoguro - Undefeated. Beat Chakaev and Bajarang at the World Championships. Oh yeah...he's 19. 

There's two off the top of my head that had unreal years at tough weights. 

I don’t feel like doing the research, but I thought Taylor was an undefeated world champ last year, which would put him ahead of anyone who lost. 

I didn’t realize Otoguro was undefeated in 2018 as well. Not sure what he did in 2018 before worlds but he very well may have topped Taylor.

EDIT: after a quick search, I’d still put Taylor above Otoguro. Taylor won titles at Yarygin, Pan Ams, and Yasar Dogu.  Otoguro was less active, only winning the All-Japan Invitational.

Edited by Katie

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4 minutes ago, MrDream said:

I agree he should be on a P4P list.....just not "arguably" the best. 

Current List (In my opinion)

1). Sadulaev

2). Snyder

3). Sidakova

4). Dake

5). Gazi

6). Uguev

7). Rashidov

8). Burroughs

9). Cox

10). Akgul

11). Petra

12). Hasanov (Maybe a stretch, but he wrestled Dake VERY tough at the WC)

Then you start getting into guys bursting onto the scene or guys with a couple World Medals(In no order)....Otoguro, Bjarang, Bonne, Chakaev, DT, Kentchazde, Yazdani, Takahashi, Valdes. 

I'm sure there are guys I'm leaving off. 

All of these guys are either multiple time World Medalists or bursted onto the scene and took down a major factor at their respective weight. In my rating, I always give the nod to a guy who has multiple medals AND doesn't show that age is deterring their performance. I could see how someone could put DT in front of Hasnaov, but I don't see how he can jump 1-11. 

Again.....this is my opinion. 

I respect your opinion and you clearly know a lot about foreign wrestlers, but how can you have Dake at #4 and DT not even in the top 12? 

Let me ask you this: if Yazdani had beaten Taylor where would he be on your list?

I love Burroughs, but no question in my mind DT has eclipsed him on the P4P list today. There’s just no possible way you can make the argument for Burroughs over Taylor without relying on stuff Burroughs did 18+ months ago. If the world’s started tomorrow and you had to bet your house on one of them winning gold, would you bet Burroughs over Taylor (ignoring the knee injury). If the world’s started tomorrow I would pick DT as the biggest favorite of all team USA to win in...and he’s in an Olympic weight the year before the Olympics. 

Based on your list I respectfully think it’s more of a blend of “lifetime achievement” plus P4P than an actual P4P rankings as of today.

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58 minutes ago, Katie said:

I don’t feel like doing the research, but I thought Taylor was an undefeated world champ last year, which would put him ahead of anyone who lost. 

I didn’t realize Otoguro was undefeated in 2018 as well. Not sure what he did in 2018 but he very well may have topped Taylor.

EDIT: after a quick search, I’d still put Taylor above Otoguro. Taylor won titles at Yarygin, Pan Ams, and Yasar Dogu.  Otoguro was less active, only winning the All-Japan Invitational.

Are you sure you're comfortable putting Taylor over the guy you didn't know existed without Google?  Great unbiased opinion.  

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17 minutes ago, boconnell said:

Are you sure you're comfortable putting Taylor over the guy you didn't know existed without Google?  Great unbiased opinion.  

Wow so when I posted about Otoguro in the past I didn’t yet know he existed ? I must be awesome. 

Edited by Katie

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J'Den , all day long.  

Anything is possible but J'Den winning the first 2 is likely to happen.  

After seeing Bo and Taylor "play wrestle" and Kyle and J'den's 1 minute go, it reaffirmed my position in my mind.

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On 5/9/2019 at 3:38 PM, MrDream said:

I agree he should be on a P4P list.....just not "arguably" the best. 

Current List (In my opinion)

1). Sadulaev

2). Snyder

3). Sidakova

4). Dake

5). Gazi

6). Uguev

7). Rashidov

8). Burroughs

9). Cox

10). Akgul

11). Petra

12). Hasanov (Maybe a stretch, but he wrestled Dake VERY tough at the WC)

Then you start getting into guys bursting onto the scene or guys with a couple World Medals(In no order)....Otoguro, Bjarang, Bonne, Chakaev, DT, Kentchazde, Yazdani, Takahashi, Valdes. 

I'm sure there are guys I'm leaving off. 

All of these guys are either multiple time World Medalists or bursted onto the scene and took down a major factor at their respective weight. In my rating, I always give the nod to a guy who has multiple medals AND doesn't show that age is deterring their performance. I could see how someone could put DT in front of Hasnaov, but I don't see how he can jump 1-11. 

Again.....this is my opinion. 

Not that they’re the definitive end all on the subject, but Flo just came out with their P4P list:

1) sad

2) Dake

3) sidakov 

4) Taylor

5) Snyder

6) Burroughs

7) Akgul

8) Petriasvilli

9) J’Den

10) Yazdani

They had Gazi at 15, Uguez at 13 and Rashidov at 18. 

Aside from taylor you and Flo mainly disagree on Russian lightweights

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2 minutes ago, MDogg said:

Not that they’re the definitive end all on the subject, but Flo just came out with their P4P list:

1) sad

2) Dake

3) sidakov 

4) Taylor

5) Snyder

6) Burroughs

7) Akgul

8) Petriasvilli

9) J’Den

10) Yazdani

They had Gazi at 15, Uguez at 13 and Rashidov at 18. 

Aside from taylor you and Flo mainly disagree on Russian lightweights

Seems like we have different definitions of what constitutes the "best" P4P list....I'm not right....they aren't right....everyone is entitled to their OWN definition of what is the "best" in terms of a subjective list. 

I'm just very surprised that Sadulaev isn't lower on the list than Burroughs, Snyder, Taylor, and Dake. LOLOLOL

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32 minutes ago, MrDream said:

Seems like we have different definitions of what constitutes the "best" P4P list....I'm not right....they aren't right....everyone is entitled to their OWN definition of what is the "best" in terms of a subjective list. 

I'm just very surprised that Sadulaev isn't lower on the list than Burroughs, Snyder, Taylor, and Dake. LOLOLOL

Based on their list 5 of the top 6 P4P wrestlers are going to be in just 2 Olympic weight classes next year 

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DT isnt even in the top 3 p4p in the USA let alone the world. I'd probably have him at number 5 after Burroughs, snyder, Cox and Dake, I don't see how you can rightfully place him above any one of these four guys (DT record vs 3 of these is collectively something like 1 and 12) though I admire DT is the ultimate fantasy warrior so why not say he is top pro in the world..

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Cox is not only excellent on the mat, he is smart and can wrestle a tactical match for a win.

Bo just might discover the delight of 'counting the bumps on the ceiling' if Cox really does after it. Bo does the odd stuff and gets off balance - something Cox is smart enough to take advantage of to put him on his back.

 

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