Joe Rogan talks Askren/JB and Sadulaev/Snyder

[2td3nf 453]

8 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

Burroughs will never get a payday like that unless he makes mma his career. He isn’t that big of a draw. He can be one day, but most mma fans haven’t even heard of him. 

But I bet a whole bunch more mma  fans know who Burroughs is now, after his match with Askren.

[MrDream 49]

11 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

He got caught.  Pure and simple.

And.....?

I guess I'm confused by the logic. 

Let's not forget that Sadulaev was the one who initiated the action, no matter how you look at it, Sadulaev was scoring. Snyder tried to get cute, instead of giving up 2.....he gave up his back. 

Let's say in a fantasy world Sadulaev doesn't pin him....he's up 4/5-0....that's requiring Snyder to take Sadulaev down twice plus a push-out or taking him down 3 times....all while Sadulaev doesn't score the rest of the match. Yeah.....that ain't happening. 

Wrestling Technique/Move Set/Scoring/Scrambling - Advantage Sadulaev

Strength from Neutral - Advantage Snyder

I believe Sadulaev is the better wrestler, but I believe Snyder knows how to keep the matches close and I won't bet against the stronger (from neutral) and defensive guy in a close match. 

Edited May 10 by MrDream

[AHamilton 105]

10 minutes ago, MrDream said:

And.....?

I guess I'm confused by the logic. 

Let's not forget that Sadulaev was the one who initiated the action, no matter how you look at it, Sadulaev was scoring. Snyder tried to get cute, instead of giving up 2.....he gave up his back. 

Let's say in a fantasy world Sadulaev doesn't pin him....he's up 4/5-0....that's requiring Snyder to take Sadulaev down twice plus a push-out or taking him down 3 times....all while Sadulaev doesn't score the rest of the match. Yeah.....that ain't happening. 

Wrestling Technique/Move Set/Scoring/Scrambling - Advantage Sadulaev

Strength from Neutral - Advantage Snyder

I believe Sadulaev is the better wrestler, but I believe Snyder knows how to keep the matches close and I won't bet against the stronger (from neutral) and defensive guy in a close match. 

Probably also better conditioned, which helps in those close matches.  Just real tough to score on.  Low to the ground and very thick.  Then its late in the match and he's been wearing you out for 5 minutes...

[MrDream 49]

37 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

Probably also better conditioned, which helps in those close matches.  Just real tough to score on.  Low to the ground and very thick.  Then its late in the match and he's been wearing you out for 5 minutes...

I would agree that Americans are quite well conditioned when compared to the rest of the world, but I don't know if I would say Snyder is better conditioned than Sadulaev. 

I believe from the 2017 match Sadulaev gassed due to the size discrepancy more than he did from not having adequate conditioning. Plus, Snyder had the perfect game plan for Sadulaev. Beat on his head and snap him every chance you get....literally every chance. This was perfect. Snyder was the larger man and was able to dominate Sadulaev's neck/head, Sadulaev's adjustment.....don't get close to him unless you are committed to an attack. We saw it couple times in 2017. But the last minute you could tell the size difference had a significant effect on Sadulaev. 

We really couldn't tell from the 2018 match.....it didn't last long enough. But, Sadulaev did look more acclimated to the weight. And his strength looked more than adequate for 97, at least when he was on top. LOL! 

2019 will tell a lot. If the match goes longer than 4 minutes (which I believe it will) will Sadulaev be able to withstand the heavy handed Snyder pressing forward? Will Snyder's strength win in the scramble situations or will Sadulaev's alien-like awareness take over? If Sadulaev takes Snyder down will he try and commit to turning him or will he be satisfied with the takedown in itself? Will Snyder have an offensive arsenal to score a take down on Sadulaev early on in the match, or will he wait to see if Sadulaev fades like he did in 2017?

Is it September yet!?!?!?!?!? 

Edited May 10 by MrDream

[AHamilton 105]

10 minutes ago, MrDream said:

I would agree that Americans are quite well conditioned when compared to the rest of the world, but I don't know if I would say Snyder is better conditioned than Sadulaev. 

I believe from the 2017 match Sadulaev gassed due to the size discrepancy more than he did from not having adequate conditioning. Plus, Snyder had the perfect game plan for Sadulaev. Beat on his head and snap him every chance you get....literally every chance. This was perfect. Snyder was the larger man and was able to dominate Sadulaev's neck/head, Sadulaev's adjustment.....don't get close to him unless you are committed to an attack. We saw it couple times in 2017. But the last minute you could tell the size difference had a significant effect on Sadulaev. 

We really couldn't tell from the 2018 match.....it didn't last long enough. But, Sadulaev did look more acclimated to the weight. And his strength looked more than adequate for 97, at least when he was on top. LOL! 

2019 will tell a lot. If the match goes longer than 4 minutes (which I believe it will) will Sadulaev be able to withstand the heavy handed Snyder pressing forward? Will Snyder's strength win in the scramble situations or will Sadulaev's alien-like awareness take over? If Sadulaev takes Snyder down will he try and commit to turning him or will he be satisfied with the takedown in itself? Will Snyder have an offensive arsenal to score a take down on Sadulaev early on in the match, or will he wait to see if Sadulaev fades like he did in 2017?

Is it September yet!?!?!?!?!? 

So you're saying that Saduleev gassed, Snyder did not, but Sad might be as well-conditioned as Snyder?

[MrDream 49]

21 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

So you're saying that Saduleev gassed, Snyder did not, but Sad might be as well-conditioned as Snyder?

I'm saying; Yes, Sadulaev gassed in 2017, my analysis leads me to believe that he gassed due to it being his first year at the weight and not wrestling anyone near as strong and active as Snyder. I believe that him gassing was due to the weight discrepancy that he was giving up in the match and the fact that Snyder had the perfect game plan against the smaller wrestler. 

We didn't have data in 2018 due to match length, but Sadulaev looked bigger than he did in 2017 which leads me to believe he acclimated to the weight in 2018 better than he did in 2017. Typical to do this in your 2nd full season at a weight rather than your rookie year. 

I believe in 2019 (if the match goes longer than 4 minutes) we will know if Sadulaev gasses against Snyder. If he does....then yes, Snyder is the better conditioned athlete. But, if he doesn't then it will prove that Sadulaev either "worked" on his conditioning or that he has acclimated to the weight better. I believe it's the latter. 

I think the only thing we disagree on is the fact that you are stating right now that Snyder is the more conditioned athlete. I'm not saying he is/isn't, I'm saying that I'm not putting much emphasis on Sadulaev's first year at a new weight where we saw he was quite a bit smaller than Snyder. I will wait until we see a full match between the 2 in 2019. 

[pa in taiwan 59]

14 hours ago, MrDream said:

And.....?

I guess I'm confused by the logic. 

Let's not forget that Sadulaev was the one who initiated the action, no matter how you look at it, Sadulaev was scoring. Snyder tried to get cute, instead of giving up 2.....he gave up his back. 

Let's say in a fantasy world Sadulaev doesn't pin him....he's up 4/5-0....that's requiring Snyder to take Sadulaev down twice plus a push-out or taking him down 3 times....all while Sadulaev doesn't score the rest of the match. Yeah.....that ain't happening. 

Wrestling Technique/Move Set/Scoring/Scrambling - Advantage Sadulaev

What you are confused by isn't logic; it's something else. Homerism? American exceptionalism? I'm not sure. I only know that from the moment I heard people saying that Sadulaev caught Snyder in a "junior high school" move, I started shaking my head. Logic is your description of the action. Sadulaev initiated action with a crisp snatch single. He was scoring on that shot. I have no idea of how the match would have played out if he hadn't pinned Snyder. The fact that people called it a "junior high school" move rather than what it actually was, a tactic that resulted from scouting and analysis, shows the superficiality of some of the commenting and analysis here. I recommend watching the match again. It's clear that Snyder should have bailed on the chest wrap much earlier, and by the time Sadulaev sits him on his left hip and secures Kyle's left arm, Snyder's right arm is just draped over Sadulaev, easy pickings for what followed. 

I also salute you for your astute analysis of the 2017/2018 situation with Sadulaev, definitely undersized in '17 and still getting used to the weight, much stronger, more experienced and more comfortable in '18. 

I'm looking forward to their next meeting, and maybe it's good for Kyle Snyder to be the hungry one. Sadulaev is surely favored in this coming round 3.

[Boompa 72]

I've been thinking for a couple of years now that Baldwin needs to be replaced with Rogan at NCAA'S.  But Rogan would probably cost too much.

[Billyhoyle 1,665]

7 minutes ago, Boompa said:

I've been thinking for a couple of years now that Baldwin needs to be replaced with Rogan at NCAA'S.  But Rogan would probably cost too much.

Why replace somebody who knows about wresting with somebody who doesn't? I could see wanting Baldwin replaced, but suggest somebody who at least follows the sport and won't just yap about cage fighting.  

[Housebuye 1,768]

On 5/10/2019 at 6:34 AM, 2td3nf said:

But I bet a whole bunch more mma  fans know who Burroughs is now, after his match with Askren.

Absolutely. Askren deserves a ton of credit. Burroughs too for making it a show and hyping it up. The sport has some momentum with more fans than ever, solid rule set, stars, sold out duals...now is the time when guys like Askren can make the biggest impact and his doing his part well. 

[Jim L 147]

On 5/12/2019 at 8:04 AM, Billyhoyle said:

Why replace somebody who knows about wresting with somebody who doesn't? I could see wanting Baldwin replaced, but suggest somebody who at least follows the sport and won't just yap about cage fighting.  

If you want someone with a  big yap who knows wrestling, why not Askren?

[jeffrideal 71]

On 5/8/2019 at 3:20 PM, Perry said:

Ben still has a pretty common podcast through rudis that's solid

I like the new podcast better.  I think Dernlan is more up to speed on current wrestling and his perspective from the coaching angle is great.