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Housebuye

Did Iowa decide to ignore Freestyle?

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The Iowa pitch to recruits has been about how they not only care about college results, but also freestyle. They talk up the RTC and were picking up some momentum, adding women, Gilman’s Medal, etc. 

they have multiple guys who qualified for junior world team trials, but they didn’t show up for trials. 

Cassioppi- he won the jr open so he was sitting to the best of 3 finals. He didn’t show up or register. Absolutely crazy considering he would be a favorite to make the team. 

Abe Assad - qualifies for trials. Didn’t show up. 

Nelson Brands - qualified for trials with a 3rd place showing at the jr open. Didn’t show up. 

Add to this they have arguably the best freestyle recruit of the last decade in Spencer Lee, and he hasn’t wrestled a single freestyle match since joining Iowa. It’s been 3 years since he wrestled freestyle. He is qualified for senior trials, but it sounds like he isn’t showing up. 

There is no way all of these guys are injured.  

There are also other issues. Gilman isn’t looking as good as he did (still think he has a fairly good shot at making the team and medaling), Warner looked terrible at junior worlds, Clark didn’t qualify for trials...Sammy Brooks and Sorensen both are doing better than expected in freestyle, but neither is making a world team. Sammy May make the national team, which is solid. That should not be the highlight of your freestyle team for Iowa though. 

Cornell, Ohio State, PSU, OSU, Missouri, NC State, Nebraska, ASU, and multiple others will likely have better domestic freestyle results this year. It’s the year before the Olympics! 

Does anyone know what is going on? If I were a recruit I’d be asking questions. This seems crazy 

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1 hour ago, Erminio8 said:

I think they think they have a real chance at taking out PSU this coming year and are more concerned with that.

Iowa has, maybe, 10% chance of beating PSU next year at nationals, and that's being generous.

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1 hour ago, Housebuye said:

The Iowa pitch to recruits has been about how they not only care about college results, but also freestyle. They talk up the RTC and were picking up some momentum, adding women, Gilman’s Medal, etc. 

they have multiple guys who qualified for junior world team trials, but they didn’t show up for trials. 

Cassioppi- he won the jr open so he was sitting to the best of 3 finals. He didn’t show up or register. Absolutely crazy considering he would be a favorite to make the team. 

Abe Assad - qualifies for trials. Didn’t show up. 

Nelson Brands - qualified for trials with a 3rd place showing at the jr open. Didn’t show up. 

Add to this they have arguably the best freestyle recruit of the last decade in Spencer Lee, and he hasn’t wrestled a single freestyle match since joining Iowa. It’s been 3 years since he wrestled freestyle. He is qualified for senior trials, but it sounds like he isn’t showing up. 

There is no way all of these guys are injured.  

There are also other issues. Gilman isn’t looking as good as he did (still think he has a fairly good shot at making the team and medaling), Warner looked terrible at junior worlds, Clark didn’t qualify for trials...Sammy Brooks and Sorensen both are doing better than expected in freestyle, but neither is making a world team. Sammy May make the national team, which is solid. That should not be the highlight of your freestyle team for Iowa though. 

Cornell, Ohio State, PSU, OSU, Missouri, NC State, Nebraska, ASU, and multiple others will likely have better domestic freestyle results this year. It’s the year before the Olympics! 

Does anyone know what is going on? If I were a recruit I’d be asking questions. This seems crazy 

Like you, i’m pretty disappointed that brands, cassioppi, and assad aren’t there, but i speculate the thinking might have something to do with warner’s early struggles last year coming off jr worlds. That would be my possible explanation for cassioppi who is a better freestyler than folkstyler and needs some work on bottom. In regards, to brands, i think his only shot to make the lineup is at 157 and will need to shrink his body a bit and doesn’t want to have to be big and strong at 74 kg through august. No idea why assad isn’t going because he’ll be redshirting anyway. 

I don’t think your characterization of their freestyle results is correct though. Gilman has looked as good as ever recently. He’s getting to legs a lot and is still a medal contender with an outside shot to win it (a very outside shot admittedly). Losing to another all world talent like fix doesn’t mean he’s regressed. He has beaten some really good guys this year internationally.  Don’t be surprised if he comes out and controls fix again at final x. Clark didn’t qualify for trials last year after being off the mat for a year after multiple surgeries. He’s looked very good this year and is qualified with 3 convincing wins over ramos. As you acknowledged, brooks and sorensen have way overperformed freestyle expectations. And of course their women’s team is lighting it up again. 

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Cassioppi was the real surprise. I took Spencer’s absence from all things freestyle since he arrived at Iowa with a grain of salt because of injury questions and Gilman being in the room. But (unless there’s some reason we don’t know about) cassioppi not showing to the trials after looking like a lock to make the team (and one of USA’s biggest medal threats) in Vegas is different. It looks like Iowa is obviously making/encouraging their active ncaa guys to abandon freestyle altogether. 

Really risky move when it comes to recruiting. If these guys don’t perform in senior level freestyle after graduation other programs are gonna have a really easy recruiting pitch against Iowa. “Don’t go to Iowa if your goal is to win a world or Olympic title.” 

Edited by MDogg

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32 minutes ago, qc8223 said:

Like you, i’m pretty disappointed that brands, cassioppi, and assad aren’t there, but i speculate the thinking might have something to do with warner’s early struggles last year coming off jr worlds. That would be my possible explanation for cassioppi who is a better freestyler than folkstyler and needs some work on bottom. In regards, to brands, i think his only shot to make the lineup is at 157 and will need to shrink his body a bit and doesn’t want to have to be big and strong at 74 kg through august. No idea why assad isn’t going because he’ll be redshirting anyway. 

I don’t think your characterization of their freestyle results is correct though. Gilman has looked as good as ever recently. He’s getting to legs a lot and is still a medal contender with an outside shot to win it (a very outside shot admittedly). Losing to another all world talent like fix doesn’t mean he’s regressed. He has beaten some really good guys this year internationally.  Don’t be surprised if he comes out and controls fix again at final x. Clark didn’t qualify for trials last year after being off the mat for a year after multiple surgeries. He’s looked very good this year and is qualified with 3 convincing wins over ramos. As you acknowledged, brooks and sorensen have way overperformed freestyle expectations. And of course their women’s team is lighting it up again. 

I thought about the Warner struggles being the reason, but I don’t think that’s it. It is a much bigger problem for U23 guys than juniors historically. U23 guys across the board looked bad early in the folk season (Prime examples being Hemida, Hidlay and Fausz). The only guy from juniors who did this was Warner, plus we have way more days from juniors suggesting it isn’t an issue. 

The reason must come down to timing. U23s were in November, so guys like Hidlay got no break and hadn’t practiced folkstyle at all even after the season started. Juniors is typically in September, so they have a few weeks off if needed, plus they have more folkstyle time. Juniors this year is even earlier in August, which only strengthens the case for juniors not negatively impacting NCAAs. Add to that the value young guys get from international experience, and I don’t think that’s why. 

With Gilman, I’m not just talking about his loss to Fix. Fix is a world level freestyler and he won by a takedown - that isn’t the end of the world. Gilman at worlds last year however looked much worse than in the prior year. Since worlds he has been upping his leg attacks and has looked generally good. I really wouldn’t be shocked if he made the team and medaled again. I would rather Spencer go, but other than that I don’t really care who we send as long as they medal. I like Gilman and Fix and think both can do it. 

Clark has not looked good. He got killed by Nico and Graff. Sure, he had the wins over Tony, but Tony hasn’t made a world team in 4 (?) years. I know I’m holding these guys to a high standard, but this is Iowa wrestling. Iowa should have world team contenders at every lighter weight at a minimum and they don’t. 

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8 minutes ago, MDogg said:

Cassioppi was the real surprise. I took Spencer’s absence from all things freestyle since he arrived at Iowa with a grain of salt because of injury questions and Gilman being in the room. But (unless there’s some reason we don’t know about) cassioppi not showing to the trials after looking like a lock to make the team (and one of USA’s biggest medal threats) in Vegas is different. It looks like Iowa is obviously making/encouraging their active ncaa guys to abandon freestyle altogether. 

Really risky move when it comes to recruiting. If these guys don’t perform in senior level freestyle after graduation other programs are gonna have a really easy recruiting pitch against Iowa. “Don’t go to Iowa if your goal is to win a world or Olympic title.” 

This is a much more succinct way of making the point. Thanks. 

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On 5/17/2019 at 12:21 PM, Erminio8 said:

I think they think they have a real chance at taking out PSU this coming year and are more concerned with that.

yep, because next year is THE ‘next year' Iowa fans have been talking about every year for a while now where they will dethrone PSU. Next year all in on folk, free be damned. 

Edited by KTG119

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Yep, Brands are focused in on the college season. The next two years are huge for the Iowa program and their job security. If they don't win a championship with Spencer Lee, the Iowa program may stop even winning placement trophies. Take a look at their recruiting over the last couple years, it's slowly falling back to where they were earlier in the decade. The program needs a national championship now or they are going to fall further behind. 

The being said, I can't believe that Spencer Lee will not be competing for the Olympics next year. Gilman should have absolutely no bearing on the decision and if it does, Lee picked the wrong school. 

Edited by Flying-Tiger

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Plas - if that’s the case, it’s just dumb. There’s a real possibility that Gilman doesn’t make the team and then what? What has been gained?

At the House’s list Marinelli. So this all looks systematic, as if T&T decided this. But it’s also possible that there were a few random things that shrank the number of Hawks competing which killed the joy for the rest of them.

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5 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

The Iowa guys don't compete against each other, on or off the mat.  This Olympic cycle is about Thomas Gilman.  The others will get their chance.

Except during practice :D That seems kinda silly though, how do you keep your guys from wrestling in open tourneys?

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On 5/17/2019 at 8:53 AM, Housebuye said:

The Iowa pitch to recruits has been about how they not only care about college results, but also freestyle. They talk up the RTC and were picking up some momentum, adding women, Gilman’s Medal, etc. 

they have multiple guys who qualified for junior world team trials, but they didn’t show up for trials. 

Cassioppi- he won the jr open so he was sitting to the best of 3 finals. He didn’t show up or register. Absolutely crazy considering he would be a favorite to make the team. 

Abe Assad - qualifies for trials. Didn’t show up. 

Nelson Brands - qualified for trials with a 3rd place showing at the jr open. Didn’t show up. 

Add to this they have arguably the best freestyle recruit of the last decade in Spencer Lee, and he hasn’t wrestled a single freestyle match since joining Iowa. It’s been 3 years since he wrestled freestyle. He is qualified for senior trials, but it sounds like he isn’t showing up. 

There is no way all of these guys are injured.  

There are also other issues. Gilman isn’t looking as good as he did (still think he has a fairly good shot at making the team and medaling), Warner looked terrible at junior worlds, Clark didn’t qualify for trials...Sammy Brooks and Sorensen both are doing better than expected in freestyle, but neither is making a world team. Sammy May make the national team, which is solid. That should not be the highlight of your freestyle team for Iowa though. 

Cornell, Ohio State, PSU, OSU, Missouri, NC State, Nebraska, ASU, and multiple others will likely have better domestic freestyle results this year. It’s the year before the Olympics! 

Does anyone know what is going on? If I were a recruit I’d be asking questions. This seems crazy 

Finally somebody said everything I wanted to say about it. And like Tobus said I think they have no shot of beating Penn State so what gives? I try to give them the benefit of the doubt but like you said there's no way all of those guys are hurt. If you weren't going to go this weekend what was the point of going to the open? Cassioppi literally just gave up a spot on the junior world team. And even if you subscribe to the belief that it took Warner a while to get back in folk style mode juniors are a month earlier this year. It makes no sense to me and if I was an elite recruit I would have some serious questions for them. I mean it would be a different story if they were winning titles like Penn State every year and they wanted 2 save them self for that for lack of a better phrase. But they're not even close. On a related subject why wouldn't somebody like Marinelli wrestle the open? What about Bo Jordan? We haven't seen him since last college season or is he not a freestyler?

Edited by ConnorsDad
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Well there are some good questions here, and I would be very interested in what Tom & Terry had to say about it. And I too think that Iowa's chances of getting a title next year or in the near future are pretty slim. But I don't think Iowa is in all that much trouble, they have Spencer as Champ, DeSanto, Lugo, Young, Marinelli, and Warner all AA.'s and I believe they are all coming back next year. Add in Kemerer, Cassioppi, Murin, Wilke, and Iowa looks like a solid team for next year, ( at least on paper anyway ). 

Come 2020, I do expect to see Spencer Lee contending for a spot on our Olympic team. 

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