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Did Iowa decide to ignore Freestyle?

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1 hour ago, headache said:

Ramos and Gilman wrestled no freestyle while at Iowa yet both won world team spots within months of finishing as seniors. I guess they must have watched some instructional videos.

This isn’t how it works anymore however. High level recruits expect to wrestle freestyle in college. Times have changed. 

A Gilman level recruit wants to go to a school where they will wrestle freestyle in the off-season nowadays. 

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13 hours ago, headache said:

Ramos and Gilman wrestled no freestyle while at Iowa yet both won world team spots within months of finishing as seniors. I guess they must have watched some instructional videos.

However I don't think winning a spot is Spencer Lee's ultimate goal, do you? I think his aspirations are a little higher as they should be but not if he never wrestle freestyle again!

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This isn’t how it works anymore however. High level recruits expect to wrestle freestyle in college. Times have changed. 
A Gilman level recruit wants to go to a school where they will wrestle freestyle in the off-season nowadays. 
Anymore? Gilman was like 2 years ago.

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23 hours ago, headache said:

Ramos and Gilman wrestled no freestyle while at Iowa yet both won world team spots within months of finishing as seniors. I guess they must have watched some instructional videos.

If he didn't wrestle freestyle at Iowa how did Gilman win Junior Worlds bronze?

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6 minutes ago, RedFan said:

If he didn't wrestle freestyle at Iowa how did Gilman win Junior Worlds bronze?

Once he became a starter, he did not wrestle freestyle until he graduated. Neither did Ramos. I think Sammy Brooks wrestled FS throughout his career. There's no rule for or against it at Iowa. 

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These are not your grandfather's Hawkeyes.

I am not sure why Brands has such a long leash.

I am sure Gable still has tons of input and it appears he either has extreme sympathy for his former wrestler or he revels in the fact that no one can surpass his coaching accomplishments.

Their style of wrestling now is non-offensive, borderline stalling.

I REFUSE TO BELIEVE THAT GABLE THE COACH WOULD EVER BE COMPLACENT WITH PENN STATE'S DOMINANCE.

Hard truth: A change needs to be made for the good of the Hawkeyes and for the good of the sport.

 

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16 minutes ago, Greatdane67 said:

These are not your grandfather's Hawkeyes.

I am not sure why Brands has such a long leash.

I am sure Gable still has tons of input and it appears he either has extreme sympathy for his former wrestler or he revels in the fact that no one can surpass his coaching accomplishments.

Their style of wrestling now is non-offensive, borderline stalling.

I REFUSE TO BELIEVE THAT GABLE THE COACH WOULD EVER BE COMPLACENT WITH PENN STATE'S DOMINANCE.

Hard truth: A change needs to be made for the good of the Hawkeyes and for the good of the sport.

 

Ignorance at its finest.  Do you even watch Iowa wrestle?  SOME guys are not offensive, but that doesn't mean it is the ENTIRE Iowa "style".  Hell some guys aren't offensive at PSU.  Is that their style?

Iowa guys that are VERY offensive minded:  Lee, DeSanto, Young, Marinelli, Kemerer and Cassioppi.  That is 60% of next season's starting lineup.

PSU guys that are NOT very offensive minded:  Schnupp/Teske, Verkleeren, Berge and Hall.  That is the EXACT same percentage of guys that Iowa has likely to start next season.

The SIMPLE truth is, the level of talent DICTATES how offensive MOST guys CAN be.  Even then, some guys(Hall) just have styles that work best for them.

 

HARD TRUTH:  Only the IGNORANT scream change at Iowa for either their benefit or Iowa's IF they actually care about their benefit.  Calling for change simply for the sake of change has ALWAYS been ignorant.  There are ONLY 2 coaches consistently getting better results and both are at juggernaught programs and would NOT be leaving for Iowa.  Any change would almost certainly hurt Iowa more than help them.......

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27 minutes ago, Greatdane67 said:

These are not your grandfather's Hawkeyes.

I am not sure why Brands has such a long leash.

I am sure Gable still has tons of input and it appears he either has extreme sympathy for his former wrestler or he revels in the fact that no one can surpass his coaching accomplishments.

Their style of wrestling now is non-offensive, borderline stalling.

I REFUSE TO BELIEVE THAT GABLE THE COACH WOULD EVER BE COMPLACENT WITH PENN STATE'S DOMINANCE.

Hard truth: A change needs to be made for the good of the Hawkeyes and for the good of the sport.

 

This might be one of the dumber things I have read on these boards, and that's saying something.

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Tom Brands is the head coach of the Iowa hawkeyes.  His number 1 priority should be winning a national title for Iowa.  Failing to do so will eventually lead to his termination.  If he thinks having guys sit out a season or 2 of freestyle in order to potentially keep his job, then that's what he should do.  Anybody that watched Spencer Lee this past season knows he was not right.  I would imagine that he is not ready, physically or mentally, to jump into senior freestyle.  Regarding the others mentioned in this thread like Cass and Assad, I have no idea why they skipped this weekend, but neither does anybody else.  Maybe they tweaked an injury during training or got sick.  who knows?

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11 hours ago, Dondante88 said:

This might be one of the dumber things I have read on these boards, and that's saying something.

 

11 hours ago, MSU158 said:

Ignorance at its finest.  Do you even watch Iowa wrestle?  SOME guys are not offensive, but that doesn't mean it is the ENTIRE Iowa "style".  Hell some guys aren't offensive at PSU.  Is that their style?

Iowa guys that are VERY offensive minded:  Lee, DeSanto, Young, Marinelli, Kemerer and Cassioppi.  That is 60% of next season's starting lineup.

PSU guys that are NOT very offensive minded:  Schnupp/Teske, Verkleeren, Berge and Hall.  That is the EXACT same percentage of guys that Iowa has likely to start next season.

The SIMPLE truth is, the level of talent DICTATES how offensive MOST guys CAN be.  Even then, some guys(Hall) just have styles that work best for them.

 

HARD TRUTH:  Only the IGNORANT scream change at Iowa for either their benefit or Iowa's IF they actually care about their benefit.  Calling for change simply for the sake of change has ALWAYS been ignorant.  There are ONLY 2 coaches consistently getting better results and both are at juggernaught programs and would NOT be leaving for Iowa.  Any change would almost certainly hurt Iowa more than help them.......

Ignorance is if you do not know any better. I have watched every Iowa match and every NCAA tournament since Brands has taken over. Every single one. How many titles have they won since their combined VT class graduated? Keep this defense of Brands up and get used to not winning a team title ever again until a change is made.

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11 hours ago, Dondante88 said:

This might be one of the dumber things I have read on these boards, and that's saying something.

Make an argument that I am wrong instead of a clownish blanket statement a 5 year old would make. You want to debate facts, I am here. Zero titles since the VT kids left. Let me know if I am missing something. I am more than willing to admit I am wrong if presented with facts. 

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3 hours ago, Greatdane67 said:

 

Ignorance is if you do not know any better. I have watched every Iowa match and every NCAA tournament since Brands has taken over. Every single one. How many titles have they won since their combined VT class graduated? Keep this defense of Brands up and get used to not winning a team title ever again until a change is made.

Who could they actually hire that is going to give them better results, of the active coaches out there?  A hire is more likely to hurt iowa then it is to help them pass up penn state.  They could take a chance on a young guy, but i dont see any of the young guys that could compete recruiting wise, going to iowa, as great as it would be for a DT, dake, Burroughs, or snyder to go there, it wont happen. Change soley for the sake of change is a bad idea.

Edited by Molsen

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How much of a say does Brands actually have? I imagine the team respects his wishes tremendously as HC and all, but I don't think there's technically anything he could do if a wrestler really wanted to compete in freestyle in the offseason (or go participate in camps & clinics, or join a softball league or whatever) as long as it didn't violate their amateur status. In college basketball players go out and play in summer leagues and practice with AAU squads all the time whether the coaching staff likes it or not. If the Iowa guys aren't participating in freestyle, maybe people should be asking Mark Perry since he's head coach of the HWC.

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9 hours ago, Greatdane67 said:

Make an argument that I am wrong instead of a clownish blanket statement a 5 year old would make. You want to debate facts, I am here. Zero titles since the VT kids left. Let me know if I am missing something. I am more than willing to admit I am wrong if presented with facts. 

Make an argument on who to replace him with showing significant evidence that they could/should/would do better!  When it comes to Iowa, too many people judge them on their epic past.  Truth be told, Iowa hasn't so much fallen behind as PSU and, more recently tOSU, have passed them by.  This has more to do with what PSU and tOSU have to offer than Iowa just not doing enough.  Things like local recruits, juggernaught athletic departments, state of the art facilites, massive RTC funding are things COMPLETELY out of Brands control.  That doesn't even add in what the advent of social media did to the national platform/recognition.

Iowa just isn't the stand alone destination that it was under Gable.  That is in no way Brands fault and it started under Zalesky.  They are still an elite wrestling program.  They just don't have everything PSU and tOSU has.  Not having 2 or 3 top 15ish local recruits nearly every year to fall back on is a KILLER.  This is especially true because they are STILL recruiting against PSU and tOSU for the national recruits and you still have the likes of Cornell, Michigan consistently landing top guys along with ASU and Nebraska grabbing some here and there.

After all that, I didn't even mention that PSU has Sanderson on top of all that making it almost unfair to any other program.  Even Ryan at tOSU is nearly a perfect fit.  With monster athletic departments coupled with the 2 best in state talent beds all it really took was the right coaches to awaken these sleeping giants.  There was NOTHING Brands could do about that!!!!!

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7 hours ago, pamela said:

How much of a say does Brands actually have? I imagine the team respects his wishes tremendously as HC and all, but I don't think there's technically anything he could do if a wrestler really wanted to compete in freestyle in the offseason (or go participate in camps & clinics, or join a softball league or whatever) as long as it didn't violate their amateur status. In college basketball players go out and play in summer leagues and practice with AAU squads all the time whether the coaching staff likes it or not. If the Iowa guys aren't participating in freestyle, maybe people should be asking Mark Perry since he's head coach of the HWC.

The Iowa coaches let the wrestlers decide. I honestly don't understand why some posters get on here and claim Brands is stopping wrestlers from competing in the off-season. Either they're just ignorant or they're trolls. Sammy Brooks wrestled freestyle every year he was at Iowa. 

 

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13 minutes ago, headache said:

The Iowa coaches let the wrestlers decide. I honestly don't understand why some posters get on here and claim Brands is stopping wrestlers from competing in the off-season. Either they're just ignorant or they're trolls. Sammy Brooks wrestled freestyle every year he was at Iowa. 

 

Wait....so you really believe that Spencer Lee just doesn't want to compete at freestyle anymore? I totally get him getting over some sickness this year, but what happened last year when he just dismantled the 125er's in the country. His knee was 100% come NCAA's....and then he just doesn't show up for anything in the freestyle world?

Lee has been adamant about his freestyle aspirations. I find it very hard to believe that those aspirations just disappear when you put on an Iowa singlet. I have a hunch that Brands realizes that if he's going to beat PSU it's going to be over the next two years and he's in no way going to jeopardize that by letting guys wrestle freestyle. Which is sad, but...it is what it is. 

Now, saying that, I believe Iowa guys not wrestling freestyle while at Iowa will kill the recruiting. Especially when they see guys like Yianni and Snyder having success. Defend the decision, defend Brands, make the excuses about geography, hot bed of talent, RTC funding, keep them coming.....but at the end of the day, they ain't winnin' and this bold move by Brands to have the best freestyle talent this country has ever seen not wrestle freestyle anymore will come back and kill whatever recruiting power they do have. 

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22 hours ago, MrDream said:

Again.....I'll say it......

At the end of the day a 3x World Champ has never wrestled a Senior level freestyle event and hasn't wrestled a freestyle match in 2+ years.....something is wrong here.....

Not necessarily. Nobody seems to be taking one possibility into account: maybe Spencer Lee doesn't WANT to spend all his time wrestling. Maybe Spencer Lee chose Iowa because they DON'T have an Olympic FS training facility, does anybody ever think about that?


If Spencer wants to wrestle FS, what's stopping him, eh? A guy with his rep would certainly not find it hard finding a patron to pay his way to tournaments and such. I bet he just wants some time off. Plenty of time to worry about Sr Worlds after he graduates.

Edited by TobusRex

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4 minutes ago, TobusRex said:

Not necessarily. Nobody seems to be taking one possibility into account: maybe Spencer Lee doesn't WANT to spend all his time wrestling. Maybe Spencer Lee chose Iowa because they DON'T have an Olympic FS training facility, does anybody ever think about that?


If Spencer wants to wrestle FS, what's stopping him, eh? A guy with his rep would certainly not find it hard finding a patron to pay his way to tournaments and such. I bet he just wants some time off. Plenty of time to worry about Sr Worlds after he graduates.

Maybe you are right...

I just find it hard to believe that Lee all of a sudden doesn't want to wrestle freestyle. 

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28 minutes ago, MrDream said:

Wait....so you really believe that Spencer Lee just doesn't want to compete at freestyle anymore? I totally get him getting over some sickness this year, but what happened last year when he just dismantled the 125er's in the country. His knee was 100% come NCAA's....and then he just doesn't show up for anything in the freestyle world?

Lee has been adamant about his freestyle aspirations. I find it very hard to believe that those aspirations just disappear when you put on an Iowa singlet. I have a hunch that Brands realizes that if he's going to beat PSU it's going to be over the next two years and he's in no way going to jeopardize that by letting guys wrestle freestyle. Which is sad, but...it is what it is. 

Now, saying that, I believe Iowa guys not wrestling freestyle while at Iowa will kill the recruiting. Especially when they see guys like Yianni and Snyder having success. Defend the decision, defend Brands, make the excuses about geography, hot bed of talent, RTC funding, keep them coming.....but at the end of the day, they ain't winnin' and this bold move by Brands to have the best freestyle talent this country has ever seen not wrestle freestyle anymore will come back and kill whatever recruiting power they do have. 

Why is that sad?  It is Brands job to win for the Iowa Hawkeyes, not ensure that Spencer Lee wrestles at the Open or WTT.

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1 minute ago, wildcatfan1992 said:

Why is that sad?  It is Brands job to win for the Iowa Hawkeyes, not ensure that Spencer Lee wrestles at the Open or WTT.

 I agree, I think, but the argument could be made that if his wrestlers do well at these events, it could help recruiting.  I have no idea what the logic is, but I imagine some guys just want some time off, some guys don't.

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I don't know if it does or doesn't hurt recruiting, but I lean towards hurting.  It's a catch 22, I think.  If his guys wrestle freestyle and get injured and miss time, or make the world team and that impacts their preparation for next season and they fail to win a national title, people will be calling for Tom's head.  Keep guys out of freestyle in order to give yourself the best shot at a national title and people say Iowa is a crappy spot to go if you want to wrestle in the Olympics one day.  Guy can't win, so he needs to do what's best for the Iowa program, which is trying to put them in position to beat PSU.  And if Spencer Lee not wrestling freestyle is the way to do that then so be it.  Apparently Lee is on board with it.

Edited by wildcatfan1992

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16 minutes ago, wildcatfan1992 said:

Why is that sad?  It is Brands job to win for the Iowa Hawkeyes, not ensure that Spencer Lee wrestles at the Open or WTT.

It's sad to see a freestyle talent like Lee's wasted in the early part of his career. I'm a freestyle junkie, so I have a biased view. So take my opinion with a grain of salt. 

I agree that Brands' job to have the University of Iowa win, but it's also to promote the program and develop athletes. Look at the notoriety that Snyder brought to tOSU when we was successful on the senior level WHILE competing at tOSU. What would that do for TnT and Iowa if Lee won a World Championship this year or an Olympic Gold in 2020? I'm sure every light weight recruit in the country would want to be training with TnT/Perry. 

I don't see how Lee wrestling freestyle would hurt recruiting in anyway....if he gets hurt...yes, it would hurt Iowa's chance drastically to beat PSU....but darn, Iowa gets 3rd/4th in the country instead of 1st/2nd. I don't think dropping a couple places nationally because of a freak injury would "hurt" recruiting. If that's the case, Iowa's recruiting is doomed....they've finished runner up 1 time since 2011. 

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