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Housebuye

Did Iowa decide to ignore Freestyle?

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31 minutes ago, russelscout said:

Why did PSU do it last year is the most relevant question of all. Did they do it to be better positioned to win a title? If so,  Iowa should do the exact same thing, because winning a title, not freestyle, is what drives recruiting. You just said so yourself.

Whether you think they can win it all is irrelevant. The rest of the stuff you said about Iowa style, other states recruiting, complacency of Iowa fans is just a strawman arguments. No one is even talking about that stuff here dude. 

I don't think the comparison is relevant because comparing Iowa to PSU is ridiculous. 

Cael is protecting WAY more than Iowa is. 

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PSU is head and shoulders the best program in the NCAA, other programs need to generate excitement around them in an attempt to catch up.

Cael can coddle his studs, he can afford to. Iowa has slow played itself into the ground.

if someone comes at me with the counterargument "Iowa is doing what best for it's athletes", I won't argue. 

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20 minutes ago, hammerlockthree said:

PSU is head and shoulders the best program in the NCAA, other programs need to generate excitement around them in an attempt to catch up.

Cael can coddle his studs, he can afford to. Iowa has slow played itself into the ground.

if someone comes at me with the counterargument "Iowa is doing what best for it's athletes", I won't argue. 

Iowa has no excitement in their program? As bad as you say they are, they are a mainstay on the front page of this board and every media outlet.

Cael coddles his studs... if that's the formula why should Iowa not emulate that?

Having said that, this isn't really that new for Iowa. I dont think they are trying to copy Cael.

Iowa didnt get Lee and Marinelli or anyone else in their line up bc they had a bunch of guys wrestling at WTT. Why would that be the sole driver in their recruiting now? I'm not sure how anyone could come to that conclusion. It seems pretty baseless.

 

Edited by russelscout

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31 minutes ago, russelscout said:

Iowa has no excitement in their program? As bad as you say they are, they are a mainstay on the front page of this board and every media outlet.

Cael coddles his studs... if that's the formula why should Iowa not emulate that?

Having said that, this isn't really that new for Iowa. I dont think they are trying to copy Cael.

Iowa didnt get Lee and Marinelli or anyone else in their line up bc they had a bunch of guys wrestling at WTT. Why would that be the sole driver in their recruiting now? I'm not sure how anyone could come to that conclusion. It seems pretty baseless.

 

1) I didn't say Iowa "has no excitement in their program". However if you are competing for a title, there are standards.

2) I already explained why Cael can coddle his studs and Iowa shouldn't if gunning for a national title.

3) Iowa needs to get people at the world level, because the recruits they need are watching that level.

Edited by hammerlockthree

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1 minute ago, hammerlockthree said:

1) I didn't say Iowa "has no excitement in their program". However if you are competing for a title, there are standards.

2) I already explained why Cael can coddle his studs and Iowa shouldn't if gunning a national title.

3) Iowa needs to get people at the world level, because the recruits they need are watching that level.

1. This thread was about Iowa right? I figured by other you were including Iowa. 

2. Yeah but you fail to make it clear why Iowa cannot do the same thing or should not do the same thing. There doesnt seem to be examples where freestyle is necessary to recruit well. This has not been the case for Iowa and PSU in the past. 

3. Nebraska has consistently had 2 guys on the world team and ussually have a lot of guys compete. If that is the be all end all of recruiting, why have they not seen the fruits of their labor? By this school of thought, nebby should be in the title hunt.

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They Will have 7 returning AA’s and 2 others that have made R12. The only remaining guy is an incoming freshman who looks very likely to be a strong AA contender. 

This is their best chance to win in 10 years. After what Warner went through when he got back, I am not the least bit surprised that Iowa passed.  Winning a team title SHOULD be THE focus.  If they win or even take a very close 2nd to PSU, no one is going to choose to not go there because Cass and Warner didn’t wrestle in Junior Trials.....

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10 hours ago, russelscout said:

Why did PSU do it last year is the most relevant question of all. Did they do it to be better positioned to win a title? If so,  Iowa should do the exact same thing, because winning a title, not freestyle, is what drives recruiting. You just said so yourself.

Whether you think they can win it all is irrelevant. The rest of the stuff you said about Iowa style, other states recruiting, complacency of Iowa fans is just a strawman arguments. No one is even talking about that stuff here dude. 

What? Other dates recruiting was one of the responses here. Why would you claim that is a straw man? I was literally responding to the most credible response to this thread. 

You keep rehashing the same point and I keep explaining it. 

Here are my claims:

1. Iowa has a recruiting problem. That is why they aren’t winning titles. 

2. Iowa’s refusal to participate in freestyle this year will hurt recruiting 

PSU, a team that doesn’t have the issue listed above (#1) took 2018 off. It isn’t a reasonable comparison because:

1. They don’t have a recruiting problem

2. 2018 isn’t the year before the Olympics. While I criticized them then for it, at least the explanation made sense. Take a break so that they can be fresh for the year before the Olympics, which will increase the likelihood of making the Olympic team. It didn’t pan out (besides maybe Zain and Nickal), but it at least made some sense

i feel like we are talking in circles here. 

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9 hours ago, russelscout said:

Iowa has no excitement in their program? As bad as you say they are, they are a mainstay on the front page of this board and every media outlet.

Cael coddles his studs... if that's the formula why should Iowa not emulate that?

Having said that, this isn't really that new for Iowa. I dont think they are trying to copy Cael.

Iowa didnt get Lee and Marinelli or anyone else in their line up bc they had a bunch of guys wrestling at WTT. Why would that be the sole driver in their recruiting now? I'm not sure how anyone could come to that conclusion. It seems pretty baseless.

 

Who said sole driver? Of course not. Iowa is an excellent place to learn folkstyle. Iowa has a huge fan base, good coaching, resources, etc. Their brand alone will lead to many solid recruits. 

Problem is, you can’t land the occasional top 10 guy and win titles anymore. Not when PSU, tOSU and maybe others soon having most of their starters being elite recruits. 

I don’t get it. If Cassioppi won junior worlds, do you think that would help recruiting? Of course it would. 

Lets look at other teams. Do you think VT will get better recruits because of Mekhi Lewis’s junior world gold? Why do you think Kerklevit went to tOSU? What about McKenna transferring to tOSU? 

I know these guys also had folkstyle. Problem is, they are verbally tied together. Kollin Moore’s level jumps, mekhi’s, and even Snyder’s were based partially on freestyle training and results based on their own comments. 

Freestyle success leading to better recruits is fairly straight forward. 

 

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8 hours ago, russelscout said:

1. This thread was about Iowa right? I figured by other you were including Iowa. 

2. Yeah but you fail to make it clear why Iowa cannot do the same thing or should not do the same thing. There doesnt seem to be examples where freestyle is necessary to recruit well. This has not been the case for Iowa and PSU in the past. 

3. Nebraska has consistently had 2 guys on the world team and ussually have a lot of guys compete. If that is the be all end all of recruiting, why have they not seen the fruits of their labor? By this school of thought, nebby should be in the title hunt.

3. Nebraska has an issue developing good recruits into elite recruits. Nebraska has incredible recruiting. Very weird example to use. Their issue is coaching guys up (no disrespect - I have no idea why that is the case, just basing it on the quality of recruits vs how good the team is). Nebraska is a great example of how freestyle impacts recruiting. Tyler Berger, Isaiah White, etc are at Nebraska partially because of Green and Burroughs

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1 hour ago, Housebuye said:

What? Other dates recruiting was one of the responses here. Why would you claim that is a straw man? I was literally responding to the most credible response to this thread. 

You keep rehashing the same point and I keep explaining it. 

Here are my claims:

1. Iowa has a recruiting problem. That is why they aren’t winning titles. 

2. Iowa’s refusal to participate in freestyle this year will hurt recruiting 

PSU, a team that doesn’t have the issue listed above (#1) took 2018 off. It isn’t a reasonable comparison because:

1. They don’t have a recruiting problem

2. 2018 isn’t the year before the Olympics. While I criticized them then for it, at least the explanation made sense. Take a break so that they can be fresh for the year before the Olympics, which will increase the likelihood of making the Olympic team. It didn’t pan out (besides maybe Zain and Nickal), but it at least made some sense

i feel like we are talking in circles here. 

Its definitely a strawman. You were responding to me weren't you? I didnt say anything about that, but it's the same routine,  same old song and dance to try to take as many shots at Iowa fans as possible. 

The idea that this is going to sink Iowa's recruiting is completely baseless. There is absolutely no precedent to back what you are saying. You are treating your opinion as fact. 

1 hour ago, Housebuye said:

3. Nebraska has an issue developing good recruits into elite recruits. Nebraska has incredible recruiting. Very weird example to use. Their issue is coaching guys up (no disrespect - I have no idea why that is the case, just basing it on the quality of recruits vs how good the team is). Nebraska is a great example of how freestyle impacts recruiting. Tyler Berger, Isaiah White, etc are at Nebraska partially because of Green and Burroughs

Do they have better recruiting than Iowa? It should be better than Iowa right?

However the rule you are applying to Iowa is "if Iowa doesnt do freestyle in 2019 their recruiting will be hurt".

 "Well that's not the case for PSU"

"Yeah but they win titles"

"Ok well nebby does lots of freestyle, why aren't they number one in recruiting every year?"

"Bc they dont develop"

Freestyle participation is not quite as big of a deal as you are making it out to be. There are plenty more variables at play. It would be stupid to assume that the recruiting is going to go down the toilet because of this one tournament.

1 hour ago, Housebuye said:

Who said sole driver? Of course not. Iowa is an excellent place to learn folkstyle. Iowa has a huge fan base, good coaching, resources, etc. Their brand alone will lead to many solid recruits. 

Problem is, you can’t land the occasional top 10 guy and win titles anymore. Not when PSU, tOSU and maybe others soon having most of their starters being elite recruits. 

I don’t get it. If Cassioppi won junior worlds, do you think that would help recruiting? Of course it would. 

Lets look at other teams. Do you think VT will get better recruits because of Mekhi Lewis’s junior world gold? Why do you think Kerklevit went to tOSU? What about McKenna transferring to tOSU? 

I know these guys also had folkstyle. Problem is, they are verbally tied together. Kollin Moore’s level jumps, mekhi’s, and even Snyder’s were based partially on freestyle training and results based on their own comments. 

Freestyle success leading to better recruits is fairly straight forward. 

 

Iowa has one of the most talented teams this upcoming year. They have done very well in recruiting.

Do I think Mekhi winning a world title helped VT. Honestly? Not really. Other then people with their finger on the pulse of the sport, was his performance really common knowledge? How many big recruits do you think actually watched him win it? Him winning an NCAA title is a much bigger deal for VT. Kerkvlevit probably went to tOSU for a lot of reason. I dont think he went their because they had X amount of wrestlers at WTT last year.

If Cassioppi would win a junior title, it would be great for Iowa, but it would be better for Iowa if he does well at NCAAs next year. Iowa is not hurt in recruiting, except forfeiting some opportunity in favor of NCAA performance.

However let's be honest here. This is one year. They had a guy on the junior and senior team last year. Yeah they had some guys sit this year and dont always have their whole team wrestle free, but you dont have a clue why that is. You dont know if its athletes or coaches decisions. You dont know about injuries or anything else.

The people that are the ones concerned here are the ussuals who hate on Iowa on this board all the time. This isn't a group of concerned wrestling fans. It's a group of Iowa haters reveling in the narrative they have created. 

We are talking in circles, mostly because you have a very vague narrative going where you keep moving the goal post, and the entire thing is based on your opinion. 

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On 5/24/2019 at 7:54 AM, Housebuye said:

If Iowa doesn’t win a title next year and they aren’t pushing their guys into freestyle, why would the top recruits go there? Iowa has a major recruiting issue.

 

2 hours ago, Housebuye said:

Iowa has a huge fan base, good coaching, resources, etc. Their brand alone will lead to many solid recruits. 

Do you see how confusing this is when you are willing to argue both of these things? You are either not arguing clearly or you are playing both sides of the fence when its convenient to you. 

Edited by russelscout

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