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WTT Trial Finals Thread

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7 hours ago, lost said:

I think Graff won that match, but there were at least 3 scoring exchanges I completely disagreed with how they scored it.  Brewer got a counter for exposure and graff gets awarded 4??

I see this over and over.  Our scoring issues take a lot of the fun out of watching the sport for me.  I would love it if someone could find a way to help the casual fan to understand that aspect of our sport.  There are a lot of us that have followed it for 50 years, that are always trying to guess what the new rules are.  I know it must be frustrating to still promote our sport, but in this time of growth, if we could make it grow just a little bit faster, it we be way cooler.

 

 

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I see this over and over.  Our scoring issues take a lot of the fun out of watching the sport for me.  I would love it if someone could find a way to help the casual fan to understand that aspect of our sport.  There are a lot of us that have followed it for 50 years, that are always trying to guess what the new rules are.  I know it must be frustrating to still promote our sport, but in this time of growth, if we could make it grow just a little bit faster, it we be way cooler.

 

 

What new rules are you giving you the most problems? It's a 2 pt td, it's 2 pts for an exposure, a TD from feet to back is 4, with amplitude it's 5. There's a 30 second shot clock and a push out pt from nuetral. You can get a one pt reversal, but that's rare because of the danger.

 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

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its not the new rules really.

it's the discrepancy in scoring from one match to the next

that should be 2 and 2, turns into 4 -0

that should be 4-1 and goes 2-2... 

1 point for a step out but only if standing. yet they gave stepouts all day when both guys were on knees.

i love freestyle, but it can be maddening if you have a dog in the fight.

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5 hours ago, de4856 said:

Well, after watching 61, this morning Congrats to Graff, but after watching BtS, I am wondering what the outcome would have been if Suriano had been here. 

Nah, that's putting too much weight on a close exhibition match between one guy who was at home vs. another guy flew across the country to be there.  Also, styles make fights and Suriano's style (choose your shots sparingly and give your opponent nothing to counter) is a terrible match-up for Colon, who thrives on counters, exposures, and par terre but not so much at making his own offense.

Given Garrett was out, Graff vs. Megaludis was going to decide who got to Final X (and I think either would have a great chance to beat Colon as well).

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Rpm002, granted you make some points regarding the BtS match between Colon and Suriano, but Suriano is this year's Champ at 133, and a two time runner up, so my point is that he is a highly talented individual, and even though he may not have prevailed here or at Final X, but it sure would've been nice to see him here. 

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7 minutes ago, de4856 said:

Rpm002, granted you make some points regarding the BtS match between Colon and Suriano, but Suriano is this year's Champ at 133, and a two time runner up, so my point is that he is a highly talented individual, and even though he may not have prevailed here or at Final X, but it sure would've been nice to see him here. 

Suriano is indeed a great talent, but unfortunately for us wrestling fans, all indications are that his plans are to "take those talents to MMA", not freestyle wrestling.

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12 hours ago, GoNotQuietly said:

Tieing up Burroughs upper body and asserting horsepower is exactly how you beat him though.  The only reason that IMar has a bad stylistic matchup with JB is that he doesn't really institute the stance and tactical discipline, but the underhooks and short offense are absolutely the way to go, IMO.

Yes, if you could do it, this would be how to beat him. But he doesn't allow it. It's one of the tactical reasons he keeps winning. He doesn't hang out in positions he doesn't want. What I mean stylistically, is that IMar isn't a guy that has a Plan B against someone athletic like JB if he can't score off of ties or force an upper body endurance war of attrition. JB will avoid ties, score a few from outside as always, and win comfortably as always in this matchup. 

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6 hours ago, maligned said:

Yes, if you could do it, this would be how to beat him. But he doesn't allow it. It's one of the tactical reasons he keeps winning. He doesn't hang out in positions he doesn't want. What I mean stylistically, is that IMar isn't a guy that has a Plan B against someone athletic like JB if he can't score off of ties or force an upper body endurance war of attrition. JB will avoid ties, score a few from outside as always, and win comfortably as always in this matchup. 

We are in 99% agreement here.  My distinction is that IMar is absolutely capable technically and physically of doing this.  I really feel like the only thing which is preventing him is realizing that the only path to victory against JB is 100% commitment and discipline.  That said, if by some miracle Ringer can get down ot 74Kgs and look anywhere close to the way he did this weekend, JB is at massive risk for the Olympic spot. 

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4 hours ago, GoNotQuietly said:

if by some miracle Ringer can get down ot 74Kgs and look anywhere close to the way he did this weekend, JB is at massive risk for the Olympic spot. 

Not sure about Ringer, but if Dake continues his run of good health, it's hard not to consider him nearly a 50-50 proposition in a theoretical 2020 best-of-3.

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4 hours ago, GoNotQuietly said:

We are in 99% agreement here.  My distinction is that IMar is absolutely capable technically and physically of doing this.  I really feel like the only thing which is preventing him is realizing that the only path to victory against JB is 100% commitment and discipline.  That said, if by some miracle Ringer can get down ot 74Kgs and look anywhere close to the way he did this weekend, JB is at massive risk for the Olympic spot. 

Not a.chance for either one.  Ringer is not going down and has stated so a few times as he loses too much strength.  IMAR does not have a defense yet for Burros lightning attacks although a tick slower than a few years ago.  Burros is not going to let IMAR in on the underhooks.

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53 minutes ago, maligned said:

Not sure about Ringer, but if Dake continues his run of good health, it's hard not to consider him nearly a 50-50 proposition in a theoretical 2020 best-of-3.

I agree most with this. If anyone can exhibit the type of commitment to a strategy and discipline throughout the match, it’s Dake.

Ringer at 74... I just don’t see it. I don’t even think he can get down there anymore and be functional. He is huge now. And yes, he schooled Zahid, but nothing in those matches showed me he had addressed any of the issues he’s had with Dake in the past. He’s not outhorsing, knee tapping, etc. Dake the way he did Zahid. He can probably wrestle him close consistently now, but I don’t know about winning even one, let alone two matches. As for JB, who is an even tougher matchup, if you can’t expose or throw him defensively (didn’t see anything new form Ringer suggesting he could all of a sudden do this), you basically have to stop all his shots and score offensively yourself, which is probably one of the lowest-probability scenarios in wrestling today. 

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JB should be safe this year.  Dake health is a question and no one seems to know what the status there is.  But if he is healthy, he should easily defeat Ringer.  Even though Ringer has improved and thumped Zahid, Dake will thump Ringer.  There is that much difference in ability at this point.

mspart

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Are the questions about Dake’s health purely based on his absence from competition or is there anything more concrete to suggest he might be injured? He did just have a daughter so his inactivity is not hard to explain. 
One of theflo guys said he had a knee issue... that's the most I've heard about it

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JB should be safe this year.  Dake health is a question and no one seems to know what the status there is.  But if he is healthy, he should easily defeat Ringer.  Even though Ringer has improved and thumped Zahid, Dake will thump Ringer.  There is that much difference in ability at this point.
mspart
He and Ringer have had some really close ones in the past. Coupled with his inactivity and Ringer's current form. I dont think there will be anything "easy" about it

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Dake needs to be close to 100% to beat the bigger, badder version of Ringer. I hadn’t heard about the knee. Hmmmm.... if true, that might be a reason why he chose 79 kg this year. More time to heal before he has to wrestle. I truly hope not. He has had more than his fair share of injuries. 

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JB's eight-plus year run at 74 kg has been incredible. 

  • 173-7 (with one of those losses being while injured to Tsargush)
  • made the team 8 years in a row over the likes of Howe, Dake, Taylor, iMart
  • five golds and two bronzes in a killer weight class

It's easy to forget that in the two decades before JB emerged, we had only won one gold at 74 kg.

Edited by Katie

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