Steveson vs Gwiz

[Housebuye 2,449]

Super excited for this one. 

It seems like there are 2 ways to beat Gable

1. Catch him in an upper body move (junior worlds) and let him make a mistake. Gwiz isn’t going to mess around here. It isn’t where he is best.

2. Take away his athletic advantage. Gable is super quick and strong. You have to negate this to win. The wya he effortlessly lifted Coon’s leg multiple times was a beautiful combination of technique, speed and power. This is where Gwiz has his best chance of winning. Gwiz is a freak athlete himself and has beaten guys far stronger than Gable. 

Gable’s advantage:

speed

Gwiz’s advantage:

experience

match tactics

 

it is difficult to tell who has a technical advantage. Both wrestle clean styles with excellent footwork. 

Who are you picking? I’m struggling

[Nicky_Pipes 22]

48 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

Super excited for this one. 

It seems like there are 2 ways to beat Gable

1. Catch him in an upper body move (junior worlds) and let him make a mistake. Gwiz isn’t going to mess around here. It isn’t where he is best.

2. Take away his athletic advantage. Gable is super quick and strong. You have to negate this to win. The wya he effortlessly lifted Coon’s leg multiple times was a beautiful combination of technique, speed and power. This is where Gwiz has his best chance of winning. Gwiz is a freak athlete himself and has beaten guys far stronger than Gable. 

Gable’s advantage:

speed

Gwiz’s advantage:

experience

match tactics

 

it is difficult to tell who has a technical advantage. Both wrestle clean styles with excellent footwork. 

Who are you picking? I’m struggling

I got Gwiz in two matches. Gwiz has multiple leg attacks and finishes quickly on world class wrestlers. Coon had 0 shots in two matches and Gable picked him apart. This is going to be a fun series at final X. 

[teach 175]

Gwiz in two.  I don't think there really is a big difference in speed.

[nhs67 2,099]

I've got Gable.

The only thing he is behind in is international senior level experience.

Gable is better in every other aspect.

This is a good thing for USA Wrestling.

[grappler6 152]

Gwiz took Gable down in the closing seconds of a simulation match last summer to win. Obviously live competition is different but I imagine it will be a real test for both guys. Whoever wins the US will have a solid rep.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[insidecradle 26]

Are they even as far as the strength category is concerned? I was under the impression Gwiz had freakish strength.

[Katie 1,076]

Why didn’t Cassar compete for the spot?

[wrestlingnerd 3,011]

I’ve got Gable, although it’s very difficult for my mind to unsee his terrible matches and shape against Cassar just a few months ago. If Gable can handle Coon’s size, Gwiz has little to nothing physically on him, and I think Gable is the better athlete and wrestler.

[Piper 17]

I think it's going to come down to who can defend the takedown better and I think that's still Gwiz.

[treep2000 1,152]

2019 World Team:  Gwiz in 2 close, and exciting matches.

2020 Olympics:  Gable

I'm wrong all the time, so, this prediction will probably fall flat... but... at least I'm trying to prognosticate.

[headshuck 2,626]

Cassar was the only wrestler to hold Steveson down for more than 2 seconds.  That played a big factor obviously in match strategy and most likely the mental aspect.

[de4856 379]

Well, I have to say that at the WTT's we saw Gable do the things we though the was always capable of doing. I am happy to see that he was able to get to his attacks against his opponents in this tournament, and if Gable can continue to get to his offense like this against Gwiz, we should be in for some exciting matches at Final X. 

Prior to the WTT's, I thought Gwiz would be too much for him, but after seeing Gable come out this past weekend, I don't really know what will happen. We have two big powerful guys, that are quick on their feet and can score like lightweights, so this should be a blast to watch. 

[scramble 156]

Gable looked good; especially against Coon.  However, I'm not putting to much stock in that.  I think Coon has regressed in freestyle due to his Greco.  Not because he isn't good, but you lose your timing on attacks and defending attacks.  Yes I know Coon Gave Snyder a hard time but there was a massive weight and size different. 

So I am going with Gwiz, but Gable is right there and if he stays the wrestling course I think we are eventually looking at the first gold medal at 125kg for the US in a long time. I think Gwiz could hold him off through 2020 but I have time to change my mind in that.  In 2019 though it's Gwiz. 

Edited May 21, 2019 by scramble

[teach 175]

I think sometimes people forget just how really good Gwiz was/is.

[Gantry 1,872]

We were having this exact same conversation about Coon last year beating Gwiz at Final X.  Gable looked really good though, but that Nelson comfortable win over Coon for true second gives me a little pause. 

[Cradle1 271]

42 minutes ago, Gantry said:

We were having this exact same conversation about Coon last year beating Gwiz at Final X.  Gable looked really good though, but that Nelson comfortable win over Coon for true second gives me a little pause. 

I think nelson over coon had more to do with the psychological effect of Getting his ass kicked by an 18-year-old twice about an hour earlier whereas Nelson was coming in fresh with a chance to make the world team.

Coon needs to just focus on Greco-  he just doesn’t have the mobility or the level changes to ever be an elite freestyler so doing both is just distracting his full attention from what he is good at (Greco).

 

[Housebuye 2,449]

4 hours ago, teach said:

I think sometimes people forget just how really good Gwiz was/is.

Could be. I have him as 4th/5th in the world behind the the two hammers, China and possibly Hari 

that said, we just don’t know how good Gable is. We know he can beat top 10ish guys and be competitive with top 5ish guys, but we don’t know if he can beat the top 5ish guys. 

I see the weight as having 3 elite tiers:

1. Turkey and Georgia - nobody is all that competitive with them when they are on

2. Gwiz/China/Iran - at least 1 but likely 2 bronzes come from this group, spending in seeding

3. Russia, AZE, and a few others

Edited May 21, 2019 by Housebuye

[BigTimeFan 1,141]

I can’t speculate because I didn’t see Gable putting such a beating on Coon. Assuming we don’t find out that’s Coon had the flu, this means he’s come a long way and anything is possible. It reminds me of Snyder.

He lost four times (?) his freshman’s year in college and took second —  great by many standards but not elite. His four losses were twice to Gadsen (once by fall in ncaa finals and the other 2-3), split with McIntosh, and split with Burak. Like Gable he didn’t win Big Tens losing to McIntosh. That was his 2015 ncaa season.

Then a few weeks (?) later he entered the US open and took out Jake Varner and then again in the world team trials. Then he wins the worlds beating Gatsalov. If one went purely on us NCAA showing and Varner’s experience (gold in 2012, not on the team in 2013 and made the team but did not medal in 2014) you could say that the situation was very much similar to what Gable faces. The kind of level jump it would take to take out Gwiz is similar. 

[Housebuye 2,449]

4 hours ago, BigTimeFan said:

I can’t speculate because I didn’t see Gable putting such a beating on Coon. Assuming we don’t find out that’s Coon had the flu, this means he’s come a long way and anything is possible. It reminds me of Snyder.

He lost four times (?) his freshman’s year in college and took second —  great by many standards but not elite. His four losses were twice to Gadsen (once by fall in ncaa finals and the other 2-3), split with McIntosh, and split with Burak. Like Gable he didn’t win Big Tens losing to McIntosh. That was his 2015 ncaa season.

Then a few weeks (?) later he entered the US open and took out Jake Varner and then again in the world team trials. Then he wins the worlds beating Gatsalov. If one went purely on us NCAA showing and Varner’s experience (gold in 2012, not on the team in 2013 and made the team but did not medal in 2014) you could say that the situation was very much similar to what Gable faces. The kind of level jump it would take to take out Gwiz is similar. 

It’s absolutely crazy for this to happen at upper weights. Snyder was nowhere near as strong st Varner. Gable is 18. He was the weakest contender in the field. 

This isn’t supposed to happen

[sisi 41]

Very, very , 

and extremely impressed by Gable's performance.

That being said, Gwiz is almost, just as athletic AND HAS experience so I give the edge to Gwiz this year....

But next year is a different story.

[scramble 156]

4 hours ago, BigTimeFan said:

I can’t speculate because I didn’t see Gable putting such a beating on Coon. Assuming we don’t find out that’s Coon had the flu, this means he’s come a long way and anything is possible. It reminds me of Snyder.

He lost four times (?) his freshman’s year in college and took second —  great by many standards but not elite. His four losses were twice to Gadsen (once by fall in ncaa finals and the other 2-3), split with McIntosh, and split with Burak. Like Gable he didn’t win Big Tens losing to McIntosh. That was his 2015 ncaa season.

Then a few weeks (?) later he entered the US open and took out Jake Varner and then again in the world team trials. Then he wins the worlds beating Gatsalov. If one went purely on us NCAA showing and Varner’s experience (gold in 2012, not on the team in 2013 and made the team but did not medal in 2014) you could say that the situation was very much similar to what Gable faces. The kind of level jump it would take to take out Gwiz is similar. 

I think this is a good summation.  I feel like one difference is as you pointed out in the timeline Varner was leveled off at best, if not maybe a touch down from 2012 when Snyder beat him.  Gwiz I feel is on a trajectory in the other direction.  I think the Gwiz now is better than the Trevel at his peak.  The top two 125kg in the world just have such a gap over everyone else Bronze may be the ceiling for anyone else in the world.  Sure someone else could get gold or silver, but it will require the right seeding or an upset somewhere.  

I think Gwiz and Taylor have competed more internationally than anyone on the U.S. team for a long time.  Probably, since JB won his first Gold.  

This isn't taking anything away from Gable.  He is the future. I'm just not sure he is the present.

[BigTimeFan 1,141]

11 hours ago, scramble said:

I think this is a good summation.  I feel like one difference is as you pointed out in the timeline Varner was leveled off at best, if not maybe a touch down from 2012 when Snyder beat him.  Gwiz I feel is on a trajectory in the other direction.  I think the Gwiz now is better than the Trevel at his peak.  The top two 125kg in the world just have such a gap over everyone else Bronze may be the ceiling for anyone else in the world.  Sure someone else could get gold or silver, but it will require the right seeding or an upset somewhere.  

I think Gwiz and Taylor have competed more internationally than anyone on the U.S. team for a long time.  Probably, since JB won his first Gold.  

This isn't taking anything away from Gable.  He is the future. I'm just not sure he is the present.

I one hundred percent agree. Varner was off his peak when Snyder took him out. Gwiz is still rising. I’m incredibly excited for the match. 

[wrestlingnerd 3,011]

Still rising is in question. There’s a solid argument for stagnation as well as having peaked. His performance last year resulted in a medal but hinted that he may have peaked. 

[Housebuye 2,449]

13 hours ago, scramble said:

I think this is a good summation.  I feel like one difference is as you pointed out in the timeline Varner was leveled off at best, if not maybe a touch down from 2012 when Snyder beat him.  Gwiz I feel is on a trajectory in the other direction.  I think the Gwiz now is better than the Trevel at his peak.  The top two 125kg in the world just have such a gap over everyone else Bronze may be the ceiling for anyone else in the world.  Sure someone else could get gold or silver, but it will require the right seeding or an upset somewhere.  

I think Gwiz and Taylor have competed more internationally than anyone on the U.S. team for a long time.  Probably, since JB won his first Gold.  

This isn't taking anything away from Gable.  He is the future. I'm just not sure he is the present.

Kind of unrelated, but this is why I was so frustrated when gwiz gave up the late points vs China. That was possibly his only shot at making the finals. He is just in an era with 2 super stars. It reminds me of 97kg. Snyder and Sadulaev are both incredibly consistent at worlds.