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Anthony Valencia: what NCAA weight this season?

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5 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

I think Anthony AAs this year at 174. 

Hall and Amine will be the favorites, but both might take Olympic shirts (im not sure how that works if you don’t wrestle for the US, but I assume it is possible). 

Lewis graduated (who would beat Anthony 20/10 times. Such a bad style matchup)

the next tier of the weight, if Anthony is on point, is Anthony’s tier alongside McFadden, Kutler, Labriola, lujan, Skatska, and Womack. Maybe a couple others. 

Anthony only needs to beat 1-2 guys in this tier to AA. If Hall and Amine Olympic shirt, he could even be top 5ish

McFadden has handled him pretty easily in college, albeit at the lower weight. 

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1 hour ago, KTG119 said:

McFadden has handled him pretty easily in college, albeit at the lower weight. 

He absolutely has. I still have them in the same tier though. I wouldn't pick Anthony against McFadden heads up, but I also wouldn't be shocked if McFadden places lower than Valencia.

Valencia is so matchup based, and not necessarily based on ranking or skill, that he is super fun to follow. It looks like he is finally getting it together, at least based on his recent freestyle results. I hope he has worked on his bottom game during his redshirt year. If he can get out from bottom or at least not get turned, he can beat most top 20 guys. He also might get teched by the #14 guy or something like that. For example, Teshan killed him. Teshan had some good wins over the year, but I don't think he majored any top 20 guys besides Anthony (I made that up but I can't remember an example). 

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5 hours ago, nhs67 said:

We are talking Folkstyle College here.

Compare them and their results.

In what universe does any of that say that he should tech fall him? When does he stop getting credit for results from when he was in high school? When will Shields start getting credit for actual college results and the work he's put in?

I'm not basing it on high school results.  

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On 5/24/2019 at 11:09 AM, Housebuye said:

He absolutely has. I still have them in the same tier though. I wouldn't pick Anthony against McFadden heads up, but I also wouldn't be shocked if McFadden places lower than Valencia.

Valencia is so matchup based, and not necessarily based on ranking or skill, that he is super fun to follow. It looks like he is finally getting it together, at least based on his recent freestyle results. I hope he has worked on his bottom game during his redshirt year. If he can get out from bottom or at least not get turned, he can beat most top 20 guys. He also might get teched by the #14 guy or something like that. For example, Teshan killed him. Teshan had some good wins over the year, but I don't think he majored any top 20 guys besides Anthony (I made that up but I can't remember an example). 

Meanwhile, in the real world....

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On 5/24/2019 at 4:15 AM, TripNSweep said:

Anthony could beat Shields by tech fall very easily. But he could also lose to him.  He's really better suited for freestyle honestly, but Anthony's problem isn't a lack of technical skill, he just gets into his own head a lot and it makes him do things that he normally doesn't do an inopportune times.  He's a world class wrestler honestly.  Like he'll just do something that will make you think WTF is he doing? And then have to battle back from a big deficit.  If he opened up more and just swung for the fences for 6 minutes there wouldn't be many guys who could hang with him.  

Anthony has definitely got talent. But something is holding him back. Mental block, maybe? Maybe he can't compensate for his weak mat work with superb takedown skills? Whatever it is doesn't seem to have held Zahid back. Anthony is a Jr next year, right?

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1 hour ago, TobusRex said:

Anthony has definitely got talent. But something is holding him back. Mental block, maybe? Maybe he can't compensate for his weak mat work with superb takedown skills? Whatever it is doesn't seem to have held Zahid back. Anthony is a Jr next year, right?

Interesting that the younger brother will get to graduate a year earlier.

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1 hour ago, TobusRex said:

Anthony has definitely got talent. But something is holding him back. Mental block, maybe? Maybe he can't compensate for his weak mat work with superb takedown skills? Whatever it is doesn't seem to have held Zahid back. Anthony is a Jr next year, right?

Zahid was always the better wrestler just because Anthony always has relied on his neutral skills- especially throughout high school.  Zahid is just more sound in all positions and can score multiple ways and positions.  With Anthony, he has 2 goto moves(if you know his neutral game, you know what they are), then there's the desperation flying squirrel.  Anthony was made for freestyle. 

Kinda like when Mark Hall is down at the end of a match, all he'll try to do is go for a super duck from 20 feet away and try to catch somebody off guard because that's really all he can do if he isn't counter wrestling.

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1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

Interesting that the younger brother will get to graduate a year earlier.

Anthony graduated this month. Perhaps you meant to say the younger brother (though both entered ASU at the same time), will use up his eligibilty first.

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1 hour ago, westfan said:

Anthony graduated this month. Perhaps you meant to say the younger brother (though both entered ASU at the same time), will use up his eligibilty first.

You know what was meant.

Don't be a ponce.

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6 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Interesting that the younger brother will get to graduate a year earlier.

Not that interesting. 

4 hours ago, nhs67 said:

You know what was meant.

Don't be a ponce.

That’s not what you meant. 

Don’t be a rube. 

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On 5/28/2019 at 8:28 AM, CA_Wrestler said:

Zahid was always the better wrestler just because Anthony always has relied on his neutral skills- especially throughout high school. 

Maybe I'm misremembering, but I have it in my mind that Anthony was the brother who everyone was hot on in high school and who ppl thought would have the higher ceiling, with Zahid kind of in the shadows. Then in college after their redshirt season people started wondering if Anthony had a case of HEW...

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1 hour ago, pamela said:

Maybe I'm misremembering, but I have it in my mind that Anthony was the brother who everyone was hot on in high school and who ppl thought would have the higher ceiling, with Zahid kind of in the shadows. Then in college after their redshirt season people started wondering if Anthony had a case of HEW...

The people that really watched knew Anthony was more suited to high flying, less gas tank and mat wrestling necessary, Freestyle.  While Zahid showed a much more complete folkstyle repertoire.  On top of that, Anthony never really showed the grinder toughness that Zahid had and still shows.

Also, remember Anthony wrestled in the 2015 US Senior Open taking 3rd.  That created a ton of buzz!

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Was Anthony Valencia's 2015-2016 red shirt year an Olympic red shirt?  The ASU website has both that season and this past season listed as red shirt years.  He is qualified for an Olympic red shirt year next year as he was 3rd at the open, so this discussion could be moo. Though if he really has two years of eligibility left and has completed his undergraduate degree it would be hard to see him doing that. 

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38 minutes ago, Fishbane said:

Was Anthony Valencia's 2015-2016 red shirt year an Olympic red shirt?  The ASU website has both that season and this past season listed as red shirt years.  He is qualified for an Olympic red shirt year next year as he was 3rd at the open, so this discussion could be moo. Though if he really has two years of eligibility left and has completed his undergraduate degree it would be hard to see him doing that. 

Yes, his original redshirt year was an OLY shirt.  The past one was a regular redshirt.

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Zahid was always the more touted growing up all the way until their junior year of high school. He had won everything under the sun and was the #1 guy in the country and Anthony, while still solid, wasn't winning the big tournaments and I don't think was nationally ranked until after his sophomore year. Then Anthony had a monster summer where he destroyed IMAR and the looked like he was going to be a junior world champ. It also helped his hype machine that he was hitting blast doubles on everybody and this was at the height of Burroughs' popularity, so there was a current superstar that people could compare him to. For that summer and possibly their senior year, Anthony was considered the better recruit, but his dominant loss to Hall that fall kind of brought everybody back to reality and he never regained the shine he had that one summer.

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52 minutes ago, qc8223 said:

Zahid was always the more touted growing up all the way until their junior year of high school. He had won everything under the sun and was the #1 guy in the country and Anthony, while still solid, wasn't winning the big tournaments and I don't think was nationally ranked until after his sophomore year. Then Anthony had a monster summer where he destroyed IMAR and the looked like he was going to be a junior world champ. It also helped his hype machine that he was hitting blast doubles on everybody and this was at the height of Burroughs' popularity, so there was a current superstar that people could compare him to. For that summer and possibly their senior year, Anthony was considered the better recruit, but his dominant loss to Hall that fall kind of brought everybody back to reality and he never regained the shine he had that one summer.

Thanks! I wonder if part of Anthony's hype machine was due to a halo effect sort of thing because Aaron Pico was getting a lot of attention at St. John Bosco(?) at the time. Also IIRC Zahid wrestled one season in high school with a fractured leg or something, so that might have dampened some of his hype also.

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4 hours ago, pamela said:

Maybe I'm misremembering, but I have it in my mind that Anthony was the brother who everyone was hot on in high school and who ppl thought would have the higher ceiling, with Zahid kind of in the shadows. Then in college after their redshirt season people started wondering if Anthony had a case of HEW...

HEW? Herpes-Elephantitus-West Nile Virus? Jesus, no wonder he's not done as well in college!

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1 hour ago, pamela said:

Thanks! I wonder if part of Anthony's hype machine was due to a halo effect sort of thing because Aaron Pico was getting a lot of attention at St. John Bosco(?) at the time. Also IIRC Zahid wrestled one season in high school with a fractured leg or something, so that might have dampened some of his hype also.

I think it was exclusively based on FS tournaments and results in big HS tourneys like Fargo and such.

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19 hours ago, pamela said:

Thanks! I wonder if part of Anthony's hype machine was due to a halo effect sort of thing because Aaron Pico was getting a lot of attention at St. John Bosco(?) at the time. Also IIRC Zahid wrestled one season in high school with a fractured leg or something, so that might have dampened some of his hype also.

It was a little bit because of Pico, but the three of them all together were getting the hype because they were winning everything in folkstyle/freestyle and Bosco is a very small school.  To have 3 guys from the same small school win state/national titles since they were kids all the way though high school was pretty special.

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1 hour ago, CA_Wrestler said:

It was a little bit because of Pico, but the three of them all together were getting the hype because they were winning everything in folkstyle/freestyle and Bosco is a very small school.  To have 3 guys from the same small school win state/national titles since they were kids all the way though high school was pretty special.

Oh Yah, good point about Bosco. I seem to remember there being waaaay more hype for Pico though because everyone thought he would be a guaranteed CA State 4xer.

I also think you were spot-on about Zahid being much more fundamentally sound in all positions. Looking back at some of Anthony's matches, he tended to be a flashy move guy, hitting lots of big blast doubles, high amplitude lifts & throws, cement mixers, super picks (or whatever that superduck/ankle pick move was that he used to do), going for banana splits and spladles and the like. To be fair, AV probably did it simply because he could, and because he might have been bored with most of his competition. I think he learned in college that the level of competition is so much higher and opponents are pretty solid in all positions, and it's much harder to put on a show with those slick moves. 

If AV really finished his undergrad degree this semester, I wonder if there's any possibility that he'd consider grad transferring. Maybe somewhere like Michigan or Iowa State. Get a fresh perspective and some new training partners to strengthen his wrestling.

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1 hour ago, pamela said:

Oh Yah, good point about Bosco. I seem to remember there being waaaay more hype for Pico though because everyone thought he would be a guaranteed CA State 4xer.

I also think you were spot-on about Zahid being much more fundamentally sound in all positions. Looking back at some of Anthony's matches, he tended to be a flashy move guy, hitting lots of big blast doubles, high amplitude lifts & throws, cement mixers, super picks (or whatever that superduck/ankle pick move was that he used to do), going for banana splits and spladles and the like. To be fair, AV probably did it simply because he could, and because he might have been bored with most of his competition. I think he learned in college that the level of competition is so much higher and opponents are pretty solid in all positions, and it's much harder to put on a show with those slick moves. 

If AV really finished his undergrad degree this semester, I wonder if there's any possibility that he'd consider grad transferring. Maybe somewhere like Michigan or Iowa State. Get a fresh perspective and some new training partners to strengthen his wrestling.

He also decked Mark Hall that same summer he beat IMar didn't he? After that he got handled, more or less, in those matches 

I'd gladly see him at UofM after this next season. He is Jr Eeligible for 19-20 so 20-21 he would be Sr eligible. He would slot in nicely at 174 for them and have a great RTC at Michigan too.

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