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DT out for this year’s worlds

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39 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

How? He is saying he takes pride in his country and wants its it represented with class. He literally says, “I hope he has a good tournament and represents the USA with class.”  What is unpatriotic about that?

 

 

It’s 2019. We are way beyond being represented in class. Downey is the least of our problems. He said he is rooting against him to medal. That’s the part of the post I was referring to.

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46 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Downey has a lot of well publicized issues off the mat.  Has he ever had a sportsmanship issue on the mat?  I can't recall any.

I guess it depends on your definition of "on the mat."  I'm not immediately coming up with a sportsmanship issue during or after a match  (other than Heflin, although from what we know, that may have been more Heflin's bad behavior). This doesn't mean there aren't others during matches that I don't know about, but I don't think that's the only relevant issue. 

Certainly things like street fights, arrests, and revenge porn tapes aren't on the mat and aren't directly related to wrestling, although I'd hope we agree that it's not helpful to the sport to have prominent wrestlers involved in these. 

But there are plenty of wrestling related controversies that aren't necessarily about something that happened during a match, and these do seem relevant to a wrestling board discussion about controversy around a wrestler.

I won't attempt to provide details. Instead I'll just quote the wrestler in question's tweet from a few hours ago, in which he referenced "my fall outs @ Nebraska, Iowa State, & Iowa."

Self described "fall outs @" three of the best programs in the country -- two of them run by Olympic gold medalists, the other by the coach of the most decorated current wrestler in the U.S. -- to me would, whether or not it specifically involved a sportsmanship issue during or immediately after a match, demonstrate a historically bad pattern of "issues" involving the wrestler's attitude and/or relationship with the sport itself.

Edited by drag it
Typo

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4 minutes ago, drag it said:

I guess it depends on your definition of "on the mat."  I'm not immediately coming up with a sportsmanship issue during or after a match  (other than Heflin, although from what we know, that may have been more Heflin's bad behavior). This doesn't mean there aren't others during matches that I don't know about, but I don't think that's the only relevant issue. 

Certainly things like street fights, arrests, and revenge porn tapes aren't on the mat and aren't directly related to wrestling, although I'd hope we agree that it's not helpful to the sport to have prominent wrestlers involved in these. 

But there are plenty of wrestling related controversies that aren't necessarily about something that happened during a match, and these do seem relevant to a wrestling board discussion about controversy around a wrestler.

I won't attempt to provide details. Instead I'll just quote the wrestler in question's tweet from a few hours ago, in which he referenced "my fall outs @ Nebraska, Iowa State, & Iowa."

Self described "fall outs @" three of the best programs in the country -- two of them run by Olympic gold medalists, the other by the coach of the most decorated current wrestler in the U.S. -- to me would, whether or not it specifically involved a sportsmanship issue during or immediately after a match, demonstrate a historically bad pattern of "issues" involving the wrestler's attitude and/or relationship with the sport itself.

I thought self-righteous types believe in forgiveness and redemption.  Anyone who isn’t rooting for Downey is flat out un-American. He’s our guy-we all should support him. If he screws up, then you can criticize him. 

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19 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

I thought self-righteous types believe in forgiveness and redemption.  Anyone who isn’t rooting for Downey is flat out un-American. He’s our guy-we all should support him. If he screws up, then you can criticize him. 

I agree that we should support him, as I stated clearly in my earlier post criticizing Taylor. 

Nothing in my last post said or implied in any way that we shouldn't want Downey to win 86 kg as the U.S. representative. In fact I explicitly said earlier that I thought Downey should be himself and wrestle his best.

I was simply in my last post explaining that people who criticize Downey for past conduct don't do so for things that don't involve wrestling, which I don't think is inconsistent with the flag I am flying at home for Memorial Day.

Edited by drag it

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Well I assume that David did everything he could to get a definitive answer before he had to withdraw. So now it's PD3's opportunity, and hopefully he can have the tournament of his life. And it should be noted that it might not be completely out of the realm of possibilities, since PD3 does own a Junior World Silver from 2012. 

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It's very unfortunate how people pretend to know all about someone's past. Downey was in a few street fights while teenager in high school, but, fortunately, arrests don't always equal convictions, and he has none. He was wrongfully denied wrestling his entire senior year of high school, but still found a way to win NHSCA Senior Nationals, USAW Junior Nationals, FILA Junior Nationals, JWTT and, lastly, a silver medal at the Junior Worlds, in that order. Although he has had some social media snafus, I really don't see where he has done anything to warrant such animosity towards himself. The guy seems to love his sport, has never had a single unsportsmanlike call, always seems to rebound from adversity, brings a lot of excitement to the mat, is very tough, and thrives on winning and becoming the very best in the world. I'd say for a lot of you it's time for a mirror check.

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9 hours ago, Blue Dragons said:

It's very unfortunate how people pretend to know all about someone's past. Downey was in a few street fights while teenager in high school, but, fortunately, arrests don't always equal convictions, and he has none. He was wrongfully denied wrestling his entire senior year of high school, but still found a way to win NHSCA Senior Nationals, USAW Junior Nationals, FILA Junior Nationals, JWTT and, lastly, a silver medal at the Junior Worlds, in that order. Although he has had some social media snafus, I really don't see where he has done anything to warrant such animosity towards himself. The guy seems to love his sport, has never had a single unsportsmanlike call, always seems to rebound from adversity, brings a lot of excitement to the mat, is very tough, and thrives on winning and becoming the very best in the world. I'd say for a lot of you it's time for a mirror check.

Lol. Who are you trying to kid. His douchebaggery is well documented. He’s not a good human being.

Edited by simple

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Here we go again. 

Here’s where I stand. I’m rooting for 100% USA gold. It would take a lot life than Downey’s antics to move me off that stance. Downey is at times annoying to me but we can chalk that up to taste.

Downey has a history of unsavory behavior but he’s not the only athlete, let alone wrestler, who does. JO was out for testing positive,. arguably more offensive because it’s an unfair advantage over his competition. Was anyone was rooting against JO because of it. Chance Marstellar had a couple of falling outs and some treated him as a hero in his final NCAA run. So yeah we don’t all love Downey. But he’s out rep and deserves our full throated support.

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1 minute ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

I will not be rooting for PDIII for one simple reason. I’m a Taylor fan, so I don’t want to see him win a medal and sit in the finals next year in the Olympic year. 

So you're a Taylor fan. 
So you
A.) Want America to preform badly at the weight, because your guy is all that matters. 
and 
B.) ? Don't think Taylor could get past him next year if Downey ended up being his main obstacle?

.... Its... maybe not the best approach 

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8 minutes ago, BigTimeFan said:

Here we go again. 

Here’s where I stand. I’m rooting for 100% USA gold. It would take a lot life than Downey’s antics to move me off that stance. Downey is at times annoying to me but we can chalk that up to taste.

Downey has a history of unsavory behavior but he’s not the only athlete, let alone wrestler, who does. JO was out for testing positive,. arguably more offensive because it’s an unfair advantage over his competition. Was anyone was rooting against JO because of it. Chance Marstellar had a couple of falling outs and some treated him as a hero in his final NCAA run. So yeah we don’t all love Downey. But he’s out rep and deserves our full throated support.

Correct. 

Downey is kind of a meat-head, JerseyShore fist pumpin and fighting, I might not be articulate but if you call me out lets brawl about it... type of a**hole... 

That said... CHEER FOR THE DAMN MAN!!!!! 

USA TEAM TITLE! Yes, Taylor is good, yes 95% of wrestlers carry themselves better, but also YES we need points at the weight... 
I hope he sticks Yazdani, techs Kurugliev, 5's Erdin... there is absolutely no possible negative to a USA wrestler doing well vs international competition... 

I understand when it's domestic, sure, cheer for your guy, but on the big stage, cheer for your friggin country!

Edited by spladle08

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3 minutes ago, Dr. Novak said:

Downey grew up in very impoverished circumstances.  Walk a mile in his shoes before casting aspersions.

You don't have to walk a mile in anyone's shoes to be disappointed in a certain type of personality/outlook/behavior. 
If he was beaten, molested, physically disabled, for 3/4 of his life, then went around being a dick 1/4 nobody could tell me..
"hey let him be a dick, he has had a rough life" 

However, if he's a dick 100% of his life, but then does all the right things to make a team I am cheering for. Tip of the cap.... 
Again: "I don't like how you carry yourself, but you did all the necessary things that NOBODY ELSE did to make the team, so I'm cheering for you the same as every other world team member."

Lol you can't dislike something if it was forced on somebody else....  alright...?

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Never said he was beaten or molested but he was raised on the mean streets of Baltimore and was able to rise above some terrible circumstances.  Has he made mistakes?  Of course but I'm always willing to give someone like that a few extra chances.

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Just now, Dr. Novak said:

Never said he was beaten or molested but he was raised on the mean streets of Baltimore and was able to rise above some terrible circumstances.  Has he made mistakes?  Of course but I'm always willing to give someone like that a few extra chances.

I was giving you harsher examples.
AND AGAIN
He has done everything correctly to make the team. SO I AM CHEERING FOR HIM. 

Yes he grew up on the "mean streets".... but since then he has been afforded every opportunity to stop being an a**hole and he hasn't....
Therefore.... without walking any distance in his shoes....
I do not like whole, "I'm tougher than everyone, lets fight, blah blah blah****" version of Pat Downey... OR ANYONE ELSE, its a crappy attitude regardless of your past. 

He's our guy and I hope he does well... but at this point its the millionaire rapper/athlete/whatever hanging with the people that carry weapons or drugs... cool if thats where you came from, but it's not where you are... stop it, and acclimate 

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On 5/25/2019 at 8:10 AM, Billyhoyle said:

BTS is a charity event, but I was under the impression that the wrestlers get paid to compete. That would be tough if he got hurt for a match he wasn't being paid for, but that was not my understanding.  

 

Taylor and Downey both know that making controversial statements on twitter/starting arguments is a great way to get publicity.  Both have a history of doing it, as do many other athletes. The whole "humble" athlete thing is long gone. 

Spencer Lee.  Myles Martin.  Jason Nolf. . .all classy champions.

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On 5/24/2019 at 11:15 PM, Scorenomore said:

I’m a DT fan but disappointed about the “gift” comment.  PD earned his way to this spot and overcame challenges along the way. No one gave him any respect and certainly didn’t gift him a spot. Yes DT would have likely won but he didn’t and to put PD down when he did nothing wrong against DT was classless. 

If you read Taylor’s post in its entirety, it is apparent he isn’t saying Downey was “gifted” the spot in that Taylor handed it to him (even though it’s true) but rather that any chance to represent your country involves an alignment of the stars for which competitors should be grateful. Read the paragraph preceding the quote.

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Say what you want but I saw him peacefully diffuse a very ugly situation during the West Baltimore riots not too many years ago.   Very bravely withstood an angry mob throwing bricks and rocks at him and instead of escalating the situation he was heroic.

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On 5/25/2019 at 4:20 PM, Meatey said:

This is definitely not the news I wanted to hear.  I have always been a huge DT fan and I have brought him into my house and had him do camps for my HS Team for the last 5 or 6 summers. He has been awesome to have as a clinician and my team and especially my son absolutely love him.  DT is a very competitive person and I'm sure there was some thought put into the words when he said that the spot is a gift for Downey.  The thing I hate most about this is that Downey will be representing the USA.  I know everyone deserves second chances, but Downey time and again has chosen to do things that are not acceptable.  Then add his dad to the mix and it becomes a circus act.  I hope he has a good tournament and represents the USA with class.  I would rather see a well behaved Pat Downey not medal, then the Pat Downey that I have seen way too many times acting like a fool and win.  

This is very unpatriotic. 

--------------------------------

It is a plea to not reinforce the view of "The Ugly American" to the world once again.

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