Cox vs "Snyder or Taylor"

[spladle08 1,125]

I know we've discussed his possible Olympic weight a few weeks back, but here lately I've gotten in a few arguments.
 
So I'm of the belief Cox dislikes cutting to 86kg and since he's adapted his body to 92kg he is likely going up to face Snyder for the Olympic spot.
 
I think his speed + lack of having to cut off an arm + familiarity with Snyder + the overall lack of depth domestically make this a solid option.
 
Recently it seems like the majority belief on these boards is that Taylor is not as talented as Snyder (I think because Cox has beaten him) and clearly the better option is to go down to 86kg, navigate the field, Zahid, Ringer, Taylor, and everyone else at the challenge tourney and blah blah blah.
 
I think Taylor's increased belief in himself (he has a year to "come back" from injury btw), overall increased skill. The depth of the weight, Jden having to cut so much, the negating of his athleticism (going lighter you get more overall athletes), yadda yadda yadda dont benefit him. I guess he would have a strength advantage....
 
Anyway.
Am I alone in thinking going up is the much easier path?
Both are difficult but I mean given the lack of a "field" at 97kg that alone makes it the better choice (for me) I literally dont see a real difference in the "toughness" between DT and Snyderman, more so just the field + the weight cut, choice seems easy.
 
Sucked out J'den vs DT
Or
Undersized J'den vs Snyder...
 
Give me the undersized.
 
Wish this forum had the "poll" option.
 

[Ogalthorpe Haywood 399]

He had trouble making 86 kg day before, now scratch weight 2 days in a row morning of. If he does do that I can’t imagine he would be at his best. 

[spladle08 1,125]

I should've added the lack of depth domestically and worldwide. I mean it has Sadulaev, then a lackluster field.

Go Cox go 2020, 97kg Olympic Champ

[manyak 184]

I’m taking him over Snyder

[spladle08 1,125]

I’m taking him over Snyder

Because you my friend. Are wise... I think... maybe.

I just think he's too big.

Hell a lot of people have faith in BO.
I'd be disappointed if he beat Cox and Snyder, but hell in the case that he could pull that off.... I'll welcome the Olympic Gold

[alliseeisgold 98]

I think if J'den had his choice he'd like to take out Taylor, I don't think he likes him too much

Cox can beat Snyder, Cox is even better against domestic guys than he is international guys 

[nhs67 2,060]

Why in the world would Cox be undersized at 97kg? He is massive at 92kg and would definitely be able to implement his style at 97kg as well due to his strength and athleticism. His frame makes it so he wouldn't be undersized either.

I mean... last year aside for height he made Zillmer look meek.

Zillmer made Bo look meek.

Physically, that is.

I just don't buy that he'd be undersized at 97kg. That is the reason him making 86kg is preposterous at this point. He also wouldn't be the same Cox that has grown(all aspects) and is ragdolling Snyder in the practice room today if he cuts down.

[spladle08 1,125]

Why in the world would Cox be undersized at 97kg? He is massive at 92kg and would definitely be able to implement his style at 97kg as well due to his strength and athleticism. His frame makes it so he wouldn't be undersized either.
I mean... last year aside for height he made Zillmer look meek.
Zillmer made Bo look meek.
Physically, that is.
I just don't buy that he'd be undersized at 97kg. That is the reason him making 86kg is preposterous at this point. He also wouldn't be the same Cox that has grown(all aspects) and is ragdolling Snyder in the practice room today if he cuts down.

Yeah I truly dont see him as undersized, I was just thinking up what people have argued when I've engaged them.

"Hes not big enough for Snyder" is a common sentiment.

[TBar1977 4,532]

J'Den has to be at least as tall as Sadulaev. I don't see why he can't add 5Kg and be plenty large enough to beat Snyder. I think he is more athletic than Snyder already, if not as strong. 

[headshuck 2,604]

I'll take a healthy Cox over Tayler.    Seems a lot of people are ready to put Snyder out to pasture.

 

 

[Peso 331]

Ragdolling Snyderman?  I'm not sure I buy this.  

 

[boconnell 1,628]

7 hours ago, spladle08 said:

I know we've discussed his possible Olympic weight a few weeks back, but here lately I've gotten in a few arguments.
 
So I'm of the belief Cox dislikes cutting to 86kg and since he's adapted his body to 92kg he is likely going up to face Snyder for the Olympic spot.
 
I think his speed + lack of having to cut off an arm + familiarity with Snyder + the overall lack of depth domestically make this a solid option.
 
Recently it seems like the majority belief on these boards is that Taylor is not as talented as Snyder (I think because Cox has beaten him) and clearly the better option is to go down to 86kg, navigate the field, Zahid, Ringer, Taylor, and everyone else at the challenge tourney and blah blah blah.
 
I think Taylor's increased belief in himself (he has a year to "come back" from injury btw), overall increased skill. The depth of the weight, Jden having to cut so much, the negating of his athleticism (going lighter you get more overall athletes), yadda yadda yadda dont benefit him. I guess he would have a strength advantage....
 
Anyway.
Am I alone in thinking going up is the much easier path?
Both are difficult but I mean given the lack of a "field" at 97kg that alone makes it the better choice (for me) I literally dont see a real difference in the "toughness" between DT and Snyderman, more so just the field + the weight cut, choice seems easy.
 
Sucked out J'den vs DT
Or
Undersized J'den vs Snyder...
 
Give me the undersized.
 
Wish this forum had the "poll" option.
 

 

If he can make 86 reasonably then it's a way easier path.  If he can't make weight and compete then going up is the only option.  

And if you don't see a difference between the toughness of Snyder and Taylor you're nuts.

[nhs67 2,060]

36 minutes ago, boconnell said:

If he can make 86 reasonably then it's a way easier path.  If he can't make weight and compete then going up is the only option.  

And if you don't see a difference between the toughness of Snyder and Taylor you're nuts.

Well tickle my nuts.

Sucked out J'den loses to DT next year.

Comfortable J'den beats Cap'n next year.

[wrestlingnerd 3,003]

I think it’d be an incredible best of 3 versus Snyder but... what bocon said. If Cox can get down, he should. DT is phenomenal but 97 kg isn’t just about making the team. There is also a Sadulaev. Cox is already a world champ and Olympic medalist. His goal is not to make the team. 

The cut will probably force Cox to go 97 anyway. 

[Scorenomore 98]

Has anyone witnessed or heard of Snyder consistently getting the better of Cox?  I have not and in fact witnessed the opposite.  Cox gets a world championship this year and bumps up to take on Snyder.

I would go with Cox, unless Snyder makes a real change to his training and reunites with Lou and works on speed and quickness. He has proven the strength is there. 

[spladle08 1,125]

I think it’d be an incredible best of 3 versus Snyder but... what bocon said. If Cox can get down, he should. DT is phenomenal but 97 kg isn’t just about making the team. There is also a Sadulaev. Cox is already a world champ and Olympic medalist. His goal is not to make the team. 
The cut will probably force Cox to go 97 anyway. 

All the respect to Bocon.

But 86 is no cakewalk. I know DT got past Yaz and Snyder fell to Saduleav so we picture Saduleav as unstoppable, and Yaz as less of an obstacle (he's literally destroyed everyone not named David Taylor for a couple years now)
But the main point of my initial post is the weight is overall more shallow (domestically and abroad), the cut + same day weigh-ins would (seemingly) put him at a disadvantage,
and .....

yeah I dont see much of a difference in sucked out J'den vs Taylor
Or
bigger J'den vs Captain America.

Legit would probably give him better odds against Snyder.

J'den is proficient at that plodding 1or 2 takedown match structure which already puts him in Snydermans Wheelhouse.

Where DT makes his hay when guys gas and get into mat-wrestling awkward situations with him.

DT at 92kg I give 0 chance
Cox with that weight cut at 86kg... feel like the pace ruins him.

Cox vs Snyder. I just cant see Snyder with the offense to even it. He may repeatedly muscle him out for 1's and shot clock points, but he ain't taking Cox down with shots. 0 chance

[wrestlingnerd 3,003]

My point is that since Cox’s goal is gold, you have to look past Americans. Shallow or deep is to some degree not that relevant if you have the talent to make the finals. I’d much rather have to beat DT and then likely Yazdani-C than Snyder and then Sadulaev. Obviously, Cox has to have the ability to be healthy after a tough cut for any of these hypotheticals to make sense. But if he does, you’re never going to convince me 97 kg is  the easier path to gold. It’s not. 

Again, the cut may just be too hard and this is all moot. 

[spladle08 1,125]

My point is that since Cox’s goal is gold, you have to look past Americans. Shallow or deep is to some degree not that relevant if you have the talent to make the finals. I’d much rather have to beat DT and then likely Yazdani-C than Snyder and then Sadulaev. Obviously, Cox has to have the ability to be healthy after a tough cut for any of these hypotheticals to make sense. But if he does, you’re never going to convince me 97 kg is  the easier path to gold. It’s not. 
Again, the cut may just be too hard and this is all moot. 

Yeah I got you broham. Itll be interesting how they look at worlds.
Heaven forbid Bo blows my mind and beats him then I'll be worried.

But until Snyder goes back to impressing me.
And Cox disappoints. I'll favor Cox in this hypothetical.

All opinions until they roll.

That dude from the euro-finals may throw a wrench in this years 97kg worlds as well but we shall see .

Go go go

[nhs67 2,060]

Do folks not remember that the only tourney that Cox and Yazdani entered in together that Yazdani comfortably won?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_World_Wrestling_Championships_–_Men's_freestyle_86_kg

 

He outscored opponents 46-2 whereas the only match where Cox looked awesome in was his Bronze medal match. Albeit he wrestled a half dozen Cox-style matches he did lost 9-6 to the guy Yazdani handled in the finals.

And this was the year AFTER Yazdani won Oky gold 25lbs lighter.

Yaz isn't huge by any means but he is more appropriately sized and Cox would have to lose a lot of mass to get back down to 86kg for the current weigh-ins procedures.

You toons who actually think he may go down, regardless of who is waiting internationally are delusional.

Frankly I would be less surprised to see Cox bump to 125 and I would be to see him drop to 86.

For the record, Cox matches up better with Sad.

We'll never see that match, though. Bo will run the gauntlet. The trifecta. Sticking Cox then Snyder(twice) then Sad.

Edited May 26, 2019 by nhs67
I have fat fingers and need to spellcheck.

[spladle08 1,125]

Do folks not remember that the only tourney that Cox and Yazdani entered in together that Yazdani comfortably won?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_World_Wrestling_Championships_–_Men's_freestyle_86_kg
 
He outscored opponents 46-2 whereas the only match where Cox looked awesome in was his Bronze medal match. Albeit he wrestled a half dozen Cox-style matches he did lost 9-6 to the guy Yazdani handled in the finals.
And this was the year AFTER Yazdani won Oky gold 25lbs lighter.
Yaz isn't huge by any means but he is more appropriately sized and Cox would have to lose a lot of mass to get back down to 86kg for the current weigh-ins procedures.
You toons who actually think he may go down, regardless of who is waiting internationally are delusional.
Frankly I would be less surprised to see Cox bump to 125 and I would be to see him drop to 86.
For the record, Cox matches up better with Sad.
We'll never see that match, though. Bo will run the gauntlet. The trifecta. Sticking Cox then Snyder(twice) then Sad.

Lol you Bo-nuts... are ridiculous :) and I like it

[Eagle26 598]

Another wrinkle now is that it’s very likely Snyder will get a bye to Final X at 97. 86 will probably be open for someone to grab the bye at the us open.

[treep2000 1,140]

The sheer fact that all y'all are already throwing in the towel on a 2x WC, 1x Oly Champ and 1x silver in favor of a 1x WC is interesting.  Amazing how fickle people are. 

[spladle08 1,125]

The sheer fact that all y'all are already throwing in the towel on a 2x WC, 1x Oly Champ and 1x silver in favor of a 1x WC is interesting.  Amazing how fickle people are. 

I hope that's sarcasm.

[spladle08 1,125]

If its not sarcasm. Cox is 3 for 3 medaling on the world stage... and he is a current World champ, its not like we are speculating he loses to a scrub....
Lol it has to be sarcasm....
"Amazing how fickle people are" that's rich

[Billyhoyle 2,479]

Add me to the Snyder over Cox group. I don’t care if some people have seen Cox win in practice...we’re talking about practice. I think Cox can make the team at 86..it’s only an extra 13 pounds to lose.