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Jimmy Cinnabon

Wisconsin 2019-2020: Big Ten contenders?

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1 hour ago, MDogg said:

Best team they’ve had recently but no way they’re a legit threat to Iowa or PSU in tournament scoring next season. 

If I were Gross I’d bump to 141 unless I’m naturally weighing in the mid 130’s (which I really doubt). Iowa had him pegged as a 141 pounder and that was 4 years ago. I’d rather take my chances with Yianni than face down that field in 133. Yianni isn’t unbeatable in folkstyle. He needed OT to beat McKenna and assuming Gross comes back at full strength I think he’s a lot better folk wrestler than McKenna.

Plus there’s the whole Olympic weight class aspect. Gross will be 24 or 25 next year so these Olympics should be top of his mind.

If he is naturally weighing in the mid 130s then he needs to plan a decent to 125 and go for the 57kg spot next year.

 

42 minutes ago, TobusRex said:

I'm not sure Gross matches up well with Yianni.

Nobody within a weight of him next year (133-157 depending on 141 or 149) will match up well with Yianni next year.  Especially a lanky 133lber who decides to give 143lbs a go for OTT.

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21 hours ago, nhs67 said:

How does he go up? 125 and 133 were going to be their biggest holes this year. Going up moves either Moran or Martin out of the lineup.

If Gross intends to make a proper go at an Oly spot, then a bump or drop is in order. A bump would make more sense if that were the case.

I just think stylistically he will do better be the top at 141 than 133, especially if Yianni shirts (Eierman already announced he will be)

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58 minutes ago, TobusRex said:

I'm not sure Gross matches up well with Yianni.

Nobody matches up “well” against Yianni except maybe Eierman. But I’d still take my chances at 141. I have a hard time seeing how Gross isn’t a more natural 141 by now. He wrestled 138 as a senior in HS and that will have been 6 years ago by the time next year’s ncaa tournament rolls around. He also wrestled 141 in open tournaments his true freshman year when there were obviously no lineup concerns.

I’m sure it’s happened before but what are the odds an elite athlete is naturally lighter at age 24 or 25 than they were when they graduated HS? 

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22 hours ago, npope said:

Barnett (true frosh) recently beat returning NCAA AA Foley (MSU) at the 2019 World Team Trials Challenge Tournament, so if Bucky pulls his redshirt... Also, Connor Brown (last season's 125 pounder for most of the season before unexpectedly leaving the team [and school?]) was a possible low AA candidate (he was consistently ranked during the season) and still has eligibility left. He was a transfer from SDSU and came with Bono. I have heard that he HEW - so I don't know if the Gross situation (who were training partners at SD) would have any bearing on anything

While Breske could likely go at 184 (and may indeed end up there just for his own sake), the Badgers are dreadfully thin in the upper weights, so they may need to ask Breske to man 197.

So, while things are looking up in Badger land, it is still a "fragile" lineup at the moment - might still be a year away from having enough depth to endure a Big Ten season and a run at an NCAA trophy.

If Breske can go to 184 they do have a very good freshman at 197 if they don't mind wrestling him this year.

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22 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

You guys realize you are calling for an undefeated, quite dominant champ at 133 to go up to 141?  Do you really think the addition of Fix and Suriano is going to make him run away?

I'm not sure Gross can beat either of those guys next season. Or vice versa. That's why they get on the mat.

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25 minutes ago, TobusRex said:

I'm not sure Gross can beat either of those guys next season. Or vice versa. That's why they get on the mat.

I am not arguing that.  I definitely think he will have his hands full with either.  I just don't think he would even consider running to 141 to get away from either and I don't really see the benefit with Yianni up there or a steadily improving Demas for that matter.

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23 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

I am not arguing that.  I definitely think he will have his hands full with either.  I just don't think he would even consider running to 141 to get away from either and I don't really see the benefit with Yianni up there or a steadily improving Demas for that matter.

I've seen comments from a person or two on this forum who maintain Demas is a one-trick pony and he won't be all that successful. I disagree, as you apparently do.

I don't think any legitimate tough wrestler dodges anybody, and that includes Gross. The COACH may dodge for them, if you get my drift.

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2 hours ago, TobusRex said:

I'm not sure Gross matches up well with Yianni.

He does not. Yianni is better on his feet and is just as, if not more efficient in scrambles both offensively and defensively.

The only question is the true mat wrestling, which is a big one. You're talking about an individual is is virtually automatic on top- turns very elite wrestlers with little resistance relative to what it would require to actually top him on top. The exception being Cory Clark, and that was a fair amount of time ago. An antidote to this would be high level explosiveness/athleticism from the bottom, which is not Yianni's way as far as I know. With all of this being said, and more being not said - Gross has not wrestled someone like Yianni in college as far as I know. Keep in mind that Yianni took out Meredith 2x, who handed Gross his only loss on the year. This was at a weight disadvantage mind you, but it was a match. 

 

I agree that Gross will be a poor matchup for Fix - see Micky Phillippi, who failed to AA (but still had an amazing season, and  blood round at that weight is as solid a performance as many AAs at other weights)

 

Gross could go undefeated on the year, without "ducking" anyone - if he is healthy. Hodge contender if he does all of that. 

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13 hours ago, iGranby said:

He does not. Yianni is better on his feet and is just as, if not more efficient in scrambles both offensively and defensively.

The only question is the true mat wrestling, which is a big one. You're talking about an individual is is virtually automatic on top- turns very elite wrestlers with little resistance relative to what it would require to actually top him on top. The exception being Cory Clark, and that was a fair amount of time ago. An antidote to this would be high level explosiveness/athleticism from the bottom, which is not Yianni's way as far as I know. With all of this being said, and more being not said - Gross has not wrestled someone like Yianni in college as far as I know. Keep in mind that Yianni took out Meredith 2x, who handed Gross his only loss on the year. This was at a weight disadvantage mind you, but it was a match. 

 

I agree that Gross will be a poor matchup for Fix - see Micky Phillippi, who failed to AA (but still had an amazing season, and  blood round at that weight is as solid a performance as many AAs at other weights)

 

Gross could go undefeated on the year, without "ducking" anyone - if he is healthy. Hodge contender if he does all of that. 

Gross is a senior coming back from a serious back injury. I highly doubt he goes undefeated at 133. I’m not even sure how likely it is that he finishes the season. He hasn’t really trained all that much in the past year I don’t think. 

 Him AAing wouldn’t be surprising,  it I don’t think he wins the title and certainly don’t expect him to go undefeated in the Big10 at 133. Too many hammers. 

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On 5/28/2019 at 3:21 PM, MSU158 said:

Solid dual team, but I don't see them being too much of a factor in the B1G tourney, let alone NCAA's.  Gross and Wick are strong Finalist contenders, but after that, they are hard pressed to get another AA.  I am a big fan of Hillger, but 285 is likely to be more difficult next season.  The B1G alone will be brutal at 285.  Moran is really their only other strong AA candidate and 141 is also going to be a minefield in the B1G before NCAA's is even a consideration.

My guess at B1G results:

125:  DNP

133:  The B1G is a MINEFIELD here.  Gross definitely did't go somewhere so he can coast.  With the back, I have to say 3rd until I see him 10-15 matches into the season.

141:  Lee, McKee, Red, Murin and Carr before Moran.  6th.

149:  7th/8th

157:  DNP

165:  3rd

174:  8th

184:  7th

197:  8th

285:  5th

So you mean he has no chance of finishing ahead of these guys? Considering he went 1-1 with Lee, McKee, Carr, lost by 1 point to Murin, and never wrestled Red. Also now he has Gross to train with should see improvement. 

Edited by chestcrusher

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22 minutes ago, chestcrusher said:

So you mean he has no chance of finishing ahead of these guys? Considering he went 1-1 with Lee, McKee, Carr, lost by 1 point to Murin, and never wrestled Red. Also now he has Gross to train with should see improvement. 

I didn't even add in Storr.  Maybe he does improve, but I just think he is going to be hard pressed against that group.

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23 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

I didn't even add in Storr.  Maybe he does improve, but I just think he is going to be hard pressed against that group.

Yea so hard pressed to beat guys who he has already beaten.... lol If anyone in that group has the chance to improve a lot it would be him. His second year as starter and improved practice partner in Gross, but keep showing your infinite wrestling knowledge. 

Also not a factor at Big Tens? They were 7th place this year(.5 behind the great Michigan team) without a Seth Gross- who could arguably take 1st, and without a solider 125. Now they have Barnett-who beat AA Foley or Brown who was fringe AA if he comes back.

Edited by chestcrusher

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23 hours ago, MSU158 said:

You guys realize you are calling for an undefeated, quite dominant champ at 133 to go up to 141?  Do you really think the addition of Fix and Suriano is going to make him run away?

No I’m calling for that quite dominant champ to wrestle closer to where he weighs naturally and where his Olympic trials weight is going to be in 2020. To me him going 133 again would be running away from Yianni. 

When Snyder went up and faced Gwiz did you consider him to be running away from J’den at 197? He did it because he thought he could beat anybody and his freestyle weight was 213.4 lbs. 

Nobody is higher on Gross than me. The way people (on this msg board and elsewhere) are talking about him makes me sort of laugh at how short people’s memories are. Assuming he’s back to full pre-injury form (maybe a big assumption) I think he wins either 133 or 141. If he goes 141 he’s my early pick to win the Hodge. Probably not at 133 though because the Big 10 at that weight is going to be ridiculous and going undefeated all season will be too tough.

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1 minute ago, MDogg said:

No I’m calling for that quite dominant champ to wrestle closer to where he weighs naturally and where his Olympic trials weight is going to be in 2020. To me him going 133 again would be running away from Yianni. 

When Snyder went up and faced Gwiz did you consider him to be running away from J’den at 197? He did it because he thought he could beat anybody and his freestyle weight was 213.4 lbs. 

Nobody is higher on Gross than me. The way people (on this msg board and elsewhere) are talking about him makes me sort of laugh at how short people’s memories are. Assuming he’s back to full pre-injury form (maybe a big assumption) I think he wins either 133 or 141. If he goes 141 he’s my early pick to win the Hodge. Probably not at 133 though because the Big 10 at that weight is going to be ridiculous and going undefeated all season will be too tough.

Hey, I really don't care what weight he goes.  I just think he looked GREAT at 133 and if he can still make it, with no ill effects, there is no real reason to go 141.  He has plenty of time to acclimate to 65 kg for 2020.

As far as Snyder goes, he obviously outgrew 197 and is really big for even 97kg.  That case isn't an apples to apples comparison.

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18 hours ago, chestcrusher said:

Yea so hard pressed to beat guys who he has already beaten.... lol If anyone in that group has the chance to improve a lot it would be him. His second year as starter and improved practice partner in Gross, but keep showing your infinite wrestling knowledge. 

Also not a factor at Big Tens? They were 7th place this year(.5 behind the great Michigan team) without a Seth Gross- who could arguably take 1st, and without a solider 125. Now they have Barnett-who beat AA Foley or Brown who was fringe AA if he comes back.

Sig bet he places no higher than 5th at B1G's?  Also, they will be a solid team, they just wont contend for a top 4 finish and THAT is what I meant by not being a factor.  That isn't a slight.  The top 4 teams in the B1G are the top 4 out of 5  teams in the country.  Wiscy should be a top 10ish team at NCAA's and that is really solid.

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On 5/31/2019 at 8:40 AM, MSU158 said:

Sig bet he places no higher than 5th at B1G's?  Also, they will be a solid team, they just wont contend for a top 4 finish and THAT is what I meant by not being a factor.  That isn't a slight.  The top 4 teams in the B1G are the top 4 out of 5  teams in the country.  Wiscy should be a top 10ish team at NCAA's and that is really solid.

He will finish top 4.

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On 5/30/2019 at 3:34 PM, MSU158 said:

Hey, I really don't care what weight he goes.  I just think he looked GREAT at 133 and if he can still make it, with no ill effects, there is no real reason to go 141.  He has plenty of time to acclimate to 65 kg for 2020.

As far as Snyder goes, he obviously outgrew 197 and is really big for even 97kg.  That case isn't an apples to apples comparison.

If he plans to go 65kg in 2020, he definitely should not wrestle 133. Olympic trials are a soon after NCAAs. You think he can be competitive at 143 with the best in the country when he had to weigh in at 133 a month before? No chance. He probably wouldn’t even qualify for trials if he did that. 

Unless he is going 57kg or doesn’t want to maximize his Olympic chances, he should not go 133. 

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45 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

If he plans to go 65kg in 2020, he definitely should not wrestle 133. Olympic trials are a soon after NCAAs. You think he can be competitive at 143 with the best in the country when he had to weigh in at 133 a month before? No chance. He probably wouldn’t even qualify for trials if he did that. 

Unless he is going 57kg or doesn’t want to maximize his Olympic chances, he should not go 133. 

Has there really been ANY indication from Gross that he has immediate Freestyle aspirations?  On top of that, his skillset hasn't really been freestyle centric.

If 133 isn't that hard to make, go get that NCAA Championship and THEN worry about Freestyle.  

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