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Jimmy Cinnabon

Any word on Kyle Conel, Cassar or Rasheed?

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10 minutes ago, MrDream said:

Conel won't beat Beard

Rasheed won't beat Brooks. 

No clue about Cassar. 

Conel won't beat Beard?  Are you saying that based on not believing he will be fully healthy?  If not, are you calling Beard the NCAA Champ right now?  Conel housed Moore twice 2 seasons ago and Moore looks to be the prohibitive favorite at 197.  If Conel is healthy, Beard better pack a lunch.

Rasheed vs. Brooks also comes down to health, with man strength playing a huge factor if Rasheed can finally have a fully healthy season.

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Conel won't beat Beard?  Are you saying that based on not believing he will be fully healthy?  If not, are you calling Beard the NCAA Champ right now?  Conel housed Moore twice 2 seasons ago and Moore looks to be the prohibitive favorite at 197.  If Conel is healthy, Beard better pack a lunch.
Rasheed vs. Brooks also comes down to health, with man strength playing a huge factor if Rasheed can finally have a fully healthy season.
Brooks could be the next Snyder. He's super talented and motivated. No way Tupac can beat him.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

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5 minutes ago, cjc007 said:

Brooks could be the next Snyder. He's super talented and motivated. No way Tupac can beat him.

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Did Snyder not get pinned his 1st season?  Didn't he lose to Burak?  A 6th year senior as dangerous as Rasheed creates serious match up problems for a newbie, Snyderesque or not.  184 has consistently been a deep weight with serious talent.  Brooks will have a minefield to navigate and that includes his own teammate!

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33 minutes ago, Fletcher said:

Conel's wins over Moore were flukes. Both of them - and yes, I realize how ridiculous that sounds. You'll see.

This is the truth. Moore teched him twice (12-2, 13-3) at U23 trials a couple months later. Conel had a great tournament, but has been completely pedestrian the entire rest of his career. I'll take Beard as well.

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42 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Beard beating Conel won't shock. The other way also won't shock, but Beard is super legit. 

Agreed with the previous three posts...

Moore over Conel 80% of the time...

Beard is projecting as an immediate AA.

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10 hours ago, qc8223 said:

This is the truth. Moore teched him twice (12-2, 13-3) at U23 trials a couple months later. Conel had a great tournament, but has been completely pedestrian the entire rest of his career. I'll take Beard as well.

Different animal....Conel is a beast in collegiate style.

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15 hours ago, cjc007 said:

Brooks could be the next Snyder. He's super talented and motivated. No way Tupac can beat him.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 

Who is tupac in this situation? and why is that his nickname?

Edited by JBluegill133

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15 hours ago, MSU158 said:

Conel won't beat Beard?  Are you saying that based on not believing he will be fully healthy?  If not, are you calling Beard the NCAA Champ right now?  Conel housed Moore twice 2 seasons ago and Moore looks to be the prohibitive favorite at 197.  If Conel is healthy, Beard better pack a lunch.

Rasheed vs. Brooks also comes down to health, with man strength playing a huge factor if Rasheed can finally have a fully healthy season.

Beard will/should beat Conel. I am basing that off of who I believe is the better wrestler. Beard is the real deal. 

If Rasheed is eligible/healthy then my point is null and void. Brooks will redshirt. Although I still believe Brooks is better right now. 

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3 hours ago, rod_frufit said:

Different animal....Conel is a beast in collegiate style.

Conel threw him from neutral. How does that position favor folkstyle anymore than free? I think that Conel wrestled lights out, out of this world for one tourney, but the rest of his career is a better indicator of what we should expect. 

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9 hours ago, rod_frufit said:

Different animal....Conel is a beast in collegiate style.

He was a beast for one weekend. He has to show that it isn't a fluke. Tariq Wilson also had a great tournament that year and regressed back to the mean this year, not placing and losing to guys he dominated in his previous NCAAs run. He's still really good, but people were talking about him like he was a title contender after that tournament when he was really a fringe AA candidate at best if you look at his body of work. Conel is the same way. He could catch fire again, but the majority of his career results (plus the serious shoulder injury he had) indicate that he's not a top guy at 197, though still a potentially dangerous early round draw.

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People should probably check out Aaron Brooks' folkstyle results before crowning him over Rasheed already. He was less than impressive at Midlands this year, and that was down at 174. He was blanked by Ryan Christenson. He's also still wrestling 174 internationally this summer. At 184, he'll be small and he's been a freestyle specialist so far. He has never seen high level folkstyle competition at this point. Getting shut out by Christenson down at 174 doesn't bode well for him against a great mat wrestler and big 184 in Rasheed.

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4 minutes ago, qc8223 said:

He was a beast for one weekend. He has to show that it isn't a fluke. Tariq Wilson also had a great tournament that year and regressed back to the mean this year, not placing and losing to guys he dominated in his previous NCAAs run. He's still really good, but people were talking about him like he was a title contender after that tournament when he was really a fringe AA candidate at best if you look at his body of work. Conel is the same way. He could catch fire again, but the majority of his career results (plus the serious shoulder injury he had) indicate that he's not a top guy at 197, though still a potentially dangerous early round draw.

Wilson's "drop off back to the mean"  is NEITHER fair, nor accurate, as he was coming off a significant foot injury wrestling a shortened season.   He still won 3 matches at NCAA's and gassed to lose a double OT match to Erneste and a 5-4 match to Lizak.  Wilson fully healthy would have been a serious force at 133, even though it was significantly tougher last season.

Now, Wilson IS actually a decent comparison as both he and Conel have battled injuries early in their careers.  Conel was 27-8 his RSFR year, making the R16 and then wrestling only 1 match the next season due to injury, actually deciding to leave the team.  He would then take 3rd the next season, knocking off the rust and improving as the year went on.

To me, both are monsters when fully healthy and motivated.  On top of that, Conel showed significant improvement over the course of his career.  After missing last season, he definitely has a ton to prove that he can get back to where he was, but I DO NOT believe he was a fluke.  He showed major skills and physicality at 197 and I would gameplan for the NCAA version before taking him for granted.......

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11 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

Wilson's "drop off back to the mean"  is NEITHER fair, nor accurate, as he was coming off a significant foot injury wrestling a shortened season.   He still won 3 matches at NCAA's and gassed to lose a double OT match to Erneste and a 5-4 match to Lizak.  Wilson fully healthy would have been a serious force at 133, even though it was significantly tougher last season.

Now, Wilson IS actually a decent comparison as both he and Conel have battled injuries early in their careers.  Conel was 27-8 his RSFR year, making the R16 and then wrestling only 1 match the next season due to injury, actually deciding to leave the team.  He would then take 3rd the next season, knocking off the rust and improving as the year went on.

To me, both are monsters when fully healthy and motivated.  On top of that, Conel showed significant improvement over the course of his career.  After missing last season, he definitely has a ton to prove that he can get back to where he was, but I DO NOT believe he was a fluke.  He showed major skills and physicality at 197 and I would gameplan for the NCAA version before taking him for granted.......

Wilson lost to Paul Konrath, who didn't qualify, before he was injured. Even if your point stands that his issues were injury related, it only hurts your Conel argument. Watch his two matches from this past year. He can barely lift his arm and we know that shoulder injuries are notoriously difficult to overcome. Pointing out that he has a long history of injuries doesn't help your case. He was healthy his Junior year and was still a fringe qualifier (I believe he got a wildcard). I don't see any reason to believe he's going to be significantly improved from that overall season of work after a major shoulder injury.

Perhaps an even better comparison would be Sa'Derian Perry from that same year. Under .500 that year, but got hot and benefited from some upsets to place. People all of a sudden talked about him like he was a sure fire AA. Unsurprisingly, he wrestled a lot closer to his overall body of work than to his one weekend performance. He ended up going 1-2 at NCAAs this year. In general, when a wrestler has a tournament that is significantly better than their overall body of work, the body of work is going to be a better indicator of future results than that tournament.

Edited by qc8223

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