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#NCAAforFreestyle?

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11 hours ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

I’ll give you one example Yianni, his folk style matches are 4-1 with usually one scramble. Freestyle he’s scrambling in and out of every position. The only sports that do well ratings wise are the marquee ones anyway. 

Man, you are talking about Yianni's CLOSE matches. He kicks the crap out of nearly everybody he wrestles in folk. Good point on the marquee sports.

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21 hours ago, JasonBryant said:


Only if they get rid of college teams. The team aspect and school element drives college sports. Wrestling fans will still go watch their guys wrestle for their colors. Fans watch Iowa and Penn State. There’s no fan identification with Sunkist or Titan Mercury.

The sky would not be falling. That being said, I like D1 being folkstyle.

That may be true of casual fans, but I bet lots of guys who actually spent years wrestling a certain way aren't going to watch "wrestling-lite". For example I dislike FS and never travel to watch FS events. I never wrestled Greco, don't understand it's rules and, hence, don't watch it. Folk I'll watch and travel to do so. So the fans like me would be turned off and possibly stop supporting college wrestling if it went pure FS. Granted, there may not be many like me out there, but there might be a lot more than these FS guys think.

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20 hours ago, MSU158 said:

This is correct and EXACTLY why I HATE the attendance at the NCAA Tournament used as an argument against a National Duals true championship. 

First off, a significant amount that go are family. Another majority are the dedicated TEAM fans. Another are the former guys that go to see everyone they haven’t since last year.   Making that an individual only tournament MAY only hurt the 2nd one and I don’t see it doing that much. Other than 2 or 3 teams fans they aren’t there really for their overall team finish.  They are there to watch great wrestling and cheer on those repping their team.   

The overall team aspect is NOT what drives that tournament’s attendance. Seeing a kid AA for the 1st time, make the finals or even win it all is truly what 90%+ are wanting to see. 

It just sucks we can’t have both!

The thing is I think the wrestlers would enjoy national duals. I know I always got a kick whenever we had quadrangulars back in the day. It's the coaches holding National Duals back. Shame they can't continue and let teams sign up for it.

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i go to the freestyle state tourney every once in awhile.(recently every year).. and everytime i'm there, the coaches who are always there lament, why are people scared of this?

b/c even if you do everything right, you dont know if the victory will be taken from you.

i have seen it at every level. most recently the highest level.

I left freestyle behind after kolat got screwed.

my son coming up brought me back in b/c he liked it and I knew he needed the extra mat time and expertise from great coaches. Im about to go back to my folkstyle only days.

I will still be a fan, watch flo..travel to lincoln if it keeps coming back, but that's about it.

Edited by GockeS

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4 hours ago, TobusRex said:

That may be true of casual fans, but I bet lots of guys who actually spent years wrestling a certain way aren't going to watch "wrestling-lite". For example I dislike FS and never travel to watch FS events. I never wrestled Greco, don't understand it's rules and, hence, don't watch it. Folk I'll watch and travel to do so. So the fans like me would be turned off and possibly stop supporting college wrestling if it went pure FS. Granted, there may not be many like me out there, but there might be a lot more than these FS guys think.

We've been over this - "casual fans" don't attend the NCAA Wrestling Championships. The fans who go - go. If you don't go, guess what, someone's going to fill your seat. 

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38 minutes ago, JasonBryant said:

We've been over this - "casual fans" don't attend the NCAA Wrestling Championships. The fans who go - go. If you don't go, guess what, someone's going to fill your seat. 

We weren't talking about the NCAA championships, we were talking D1 wrestling in general. Of COURSE the seats will be filled for D1 championships, that's the premier event of the sport. I suggest you visit McCasland Field House during one of OU's home matches sometime if you want to see what attendance is like for most D1 schools. Heck, you don't even have to go as low as OU is now....visit OSU about 90 miles up the road and attend one of their dual matches (you probably have already been to one or more). Notice all the empty seats in the building? Yeah...there might be 2-3,000 fans in the seats, but there's 10,000 seats with no butts in them. And OSU is consistently one of the most successful programs in the country.

Edited by TobusRex

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50 minutes ago, JasonBryant said:

We've been over this - "casual fans" don't attend the NCAA Wrestling Championships. The fans who go - go. If you don't go, guess what, someone's going to fill your seat. 

This is so true. Casual fans wouldn't show up to a 3 day, 6 session tournament.  These are fans actively involved in the sport in one way or other (either fans of the college team or involved in high school/club wrestling). 

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12 hours ago, TobusRex said:

We weren't talking about the NCAA championships, we were talking D1 wrestling in general. Of COURSE the seats will be filled for D1 championships, that's the premier event of the sport. I suggest you visit McCasland Field House during one of OU's home matches sometime if you want to see what attendance is like for most D1 schools. Heck, you don't even have to go as low as OU is now....visit OSU about 90 miles up the road and attend one of their dual matches (you probably have already been to one or more). Notice all the empty seats in the building? Yeah...there might be 2-3,000 fans in the seats, but there's 10,000 seats with no butts in them. And OSU is consistently one of the most successful programs in the country.

I've been tracking attendance for Division I schools for over 15 years. I know what attendance is like more than nearly everyone other than Denny Diehl. This is the first season we've had at least 24 schools with an average of over 1,000 fans per dual. A stylistic shift is not going to eliminate half of the casual wrestling fans, like some suggest. There's just zero comparable evidence to support such an opinion. The increase in fan attendance isn't because of style, it's because of marketing. 

Casual fans show up because they are casual fans. Volleyball fans didn't revolt when they went to rally point scoring. 

But rest assured, I highly doubt the NCAA would change men's college wrestling to freestyle, so we're basically arguing about a hypothetical where there can be no winning statement. 

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Practically speaking, I realize the NCAA will never adopt freestyle. So JB is right: it’s a moot point.

But what I don’t understand is the resistance to adopting specific rule changes from freestyle that work well. Like the step out rule.

The step out rule provides an objective way to prevent many forms of stalling.  Yet people still prefer the current stalling rules when enforced aggressively and uniformly -- even though they never are and never will be. It’s like folkstyle is some sort of ideology 

 

Edited by Katie

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On 6/4/2019 at 9:36 AM, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

Imo freestyle is just a better more entertaining product. 

It is for those who can't wrestle from the bottom position. Stall a bit and you are back to your feet. It encourages wrestlers to be incomplete and is basically a takedown game.

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22 hours ago, Katie said:

Practically speaking, I realize the NCAA will never adopt freestyle. So JB is right: it’s a moot point.

But what I don’t understand is the resistance to adopting specific rule changes from freestyle that work well. Like the step out rule.

The step out rule provides an objective way to prevent many forms of stalling.  Yet people still prefer the current stalling rules when enforced aggressively and uniformly -- even though they never are and never will be. It’s like folkstyle is some sort of ideology 

 

Opinion, opinion and opinion. The step out is fine due to the way freestyle stalling passivity is called and probably was a good move for that sport. However, folkstyle has always called it differently, especially with awarding penalty points. 

I actually believe the current rules were called VERY well this past season and truly loved the level of action that occurred at the edge of the mat. I DO NOT want to lose that action for a 1 point award that stops the action ANYWAY. 

You can have the step out in Free. I actually think it helped that sport. I just DO NOT agree that it would help Folk. As similar as they are, they still have fundamental differences, even in neutral. To me, the step out takes too much of that difference away. 

Edited by MSU158

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6 hours ago, WillieBoy said:

It is for those who can't wrestle from the bottom position. Stall a bit and you are back to your feet. It encourages wrestlers to be incomplete and is basically a takedown game.

In many cases top guys either hold on for dear life for the riding time point or they cut the bottom guy right away. Turns are quit rare in the upper echelon matchups anymore. 

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On 6/15/2019 at 9:49 AM, JasonBryant said:

I've been tracking attendance for Division I schools for over 15 years. I know what attendance is like more than nearly everyone other than Denny Diehl. This is the first season we've had at least 24 schools with an average of over 1,000 fans per dual. A stylistic shift is not going to eliminate half of the casual wrestling fans, like some suggest. There's just zero comparable evidence to support such an opinion. The increase in fan attendance isn't because of style, it's because of marketing. 

Casual fans show up because they are casual fans. Volleyball fans didn't revolt when they went to rally point scoring. 

But rest assured, I highly doubt the NCAA would change men's college wrestling to freestyle, so we're basically arguing about a hypothetical where there can be no winning statement. 

speaking of attendance, any idea on numbers at the final x sites?

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