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Dake officially injured, delay in Final X wrestle-off

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12 minutes ago, drag it said:

The only thing I was really interested in was what he injured, and when he is going to wrestle, and he didn't tell me either.  He didn't tell me "everything" else; in fact I don't think he told me anything tangible other than that a big guy fell on him somewhere, presumably his leg.

My posts are extensive, but they speak for themselves.  He is a remarkable and brilliant guy, but nothing he said in his extensive interview spoke for itself, as several others have also commented.

I think Kyle Dake is the best college wrestler in history and has done remarkably well on the senior level despite very bad luck with injuries, and I hope he wins Worlds in 2019 and the Olympics in 2020.  I think Flo is great and am glad they have more funding.  I don't think anyone committed a crime.  I'm just saying that  Dake's sudden postponement shortly before a Final X that until a week or two ago was looking like one of the great wrestling events in history on U.S. soil is a very high profile happening, and that he and Flo, both of whom I and others think very highly of, didn't meet their standards and whiffed.  And they did so in what was not a particularly difficult format (compared, for instance, to the live interviews and press conferences during or right after competitions, with often aggressive reporters, that most pro athletes deal with).  

I also have said that I understand why he hasn't disclosed his injury.  No problem.  But he chose to do a 20 minute interview, was uncharacteristically indirect and inarticulate, and gave weird, head-scratching answers to questions that weren't even asked, such as the points touched on in alliseeisgold's post, above.  Sorry for another rambling post.  Enjoy the matches.

You’ve said that, we get it, you didn’t like the interview. 

A friend had a center matside seat for me but I rsvp’d a wedding 6 months ago and can’t go. My freaking luck. 

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18 minutes ago, AnklePicker said:

You’ve said that, we get it, you didn’t like the interview. 

A friend had a center matside seat for me but I rsvp’d a wedding 6 months ago and can’t go. My freaking luck. 

That is bad luck, I bet the atmosphere will be great in person. Probably too late now to start a thread asking for the best ideas for how to get out of the wedding.

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13 hours ago, drag it said:

That's what it sounds like.  There is a video on Flo, Bader interviewing Dake.

I say this as a giant Dake fan.  This is a strange interview.  

Dake spends over 4 minutes telling an endless story, much of it completely irrelevant to what anyone watching it would want to know -- his vacation, his wife's pregnancy, something about a plastic surgeon, etc.  In the relevant part it sounds like a 300 pound heavyweight landed on him.

The injury is never identified, or if it was, I missed it.  He says he saw a doctor that Yianni saw, so probably a knee.  He goes on a long tangent about how the plastic surgeon told his surgeon that this was important.  (Really?  Major surgery?  Major surgery on a world champion professional athlete?)  This part of the story is told so strangely that it could create the inference that the surgery didn't go well despite the fact that the surgeon was carefully chosen. 

He spools out indirectly that he had surgery and was on crutches for six weeks, but the type of surgery isn't identified, or if it was, I missed it.  

At one point he compares the situation with what would have happened if LeBron James got hurt practicing.  I'm not sure if he's trying to say that it's the same or different, because, like the rest of the interview, he failed to use a single declarative sentence to express himself in a clear way. 

Regardless, I'll use the comparison to make a point.  If this happened to one of the best athletes in any other sport, I doubt that, even without missing a scheduled competition as a result, he would go this far without mentioning it -- and certainly, no interviewer would allow him to ramble on in a 20 minute interview without asking for details and more clarification.  

The secrecy part is remarkable.  He talks about how all Cornell wrestlers were instructed not to say a word to anyone after there was a leak.  He talks about how he -- as an assistant coach for Cornell -- did not attend and coach at meets where he would have to use his crutches, so that no one could know he was hurt.  Etc.

Also notable is how he explains that, on the day of the injury, he and Max Dean had been set up in a far corner of the room, with no one else close by, presumably so that Dake couldn't get hurt, which makes the injury even more freaky.  "We explicitly planned to keep everyone away from me."  Huh?  This is pretty strange, to arrange a college practice this way.  I would have wanted the interviewer to probe that a little.  Why?  Was he already hurt?  Had this happened before?  Did they do this every day, not use all their mat space in a college practice so that their assistant coach could have more room to wrestle?

I feel really bad for Dake.  He's probably my favorite wrestler.  I've posted repeatedly laudatory things about him here.  He's had a bad run of injuries.  This sounds like a particularly bad pieced of bad luck.  But to me this is a perfect example of something that comes up a lot in wrestling--a lack of transparency that is very difficult for fans.

I don't necessarily blame the athletes.  They will do what they think is best for them within the rules.  But it's a strange situation that we are trying to build fan interest in the sport, while that interest is stymied by these situations (suppression of relevant information).  I certainly don't want the invasive coverage that we see when there is too much coverage. 

But a 20 minute interview where so little is given and, more importantly, so little is asked and followed up on, isn't sufficient.  If you want to try to get a better idea of what I'm talking about, watch it for yourself.  It's the lead video on Flo right now, doesn't appear to be behind the pay wall.

 

You captured my exact thoughts.

Seems like there was either an agreement for Bader not to ask specifics or it was just horrible interviewing.  So many questions not asked.

I also came away with the impression that something related to the surgery didn’t go as planned.  Would be interested to hear more.

Side note Flo’s best interviewer is Zeb Miller.  Always asks the questions the viewer wants to hear and understands the interesting storylines.

Edited by madcat11

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I dont think Dake will be wrestling anytime soon the way he was dragging that stiff right leg along.

 

Pretty cool the way they both hopped up on the railing in unison.  Cant wait for the new Dake movie.

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On 6/4/2019 at 11:54 AM, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

Not at all a surprise given the chatter that's been out there.

The "freak accident" thing is a little curious though.  I guess that means he injured himself outside of any sort of training (e.g. falling in the shower, slipping a disc while shoveling the driveway, being bit by a snake, etc.)? 

Worse than you can imagine:  He hit his leg with a shovel while attacking a snake in the shower.

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On 6/7/2019 at 5:50 PM, wrestlingnerd said:

Agreed on the firs two sentences, but on the rest... really? 

Its stupid for a combat sport athlete or his coaches to want to say nothing about an injury? You seriously think a world champion is resorting to trickery to avoid two domestic competitors he’s already beaten multiple times? What a joke. Did you feel the same way about Spencer Lee and Iowa last season?

I know it’s frustrating as a fan to not know. I’m frustrated too. But it’s not stupid to want to hide an injury in wrestling. The last two questions on your post were indeed stupid though, no offense.

None taken, that was my immediate reaction to the video which was a little hyperbolic.  I understand the situation, I just find it annoying.  

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Just watched Flo video for first time.  People got confused when Dake mentioned the plastic surgeon.  He was talking about Dave Hirsch, Cornell wrestler who was a National Champ in the 90s.  That's why he as brought up... Cornell wrestling connection.  Apparently Hirsch recommended the surgeon that Yianni and Dake used for their injuries.  Hirsch had worked with the guy and vouched for his ability.

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No; you have it twisted. Dake asked Yianni, who moonlights as a chiropractor, which doc had done his triceps reduction, and that same plastic surgeon did a gratuitous surgery on Dake just so Dake could avoid Ringer and Zahid for a few more weeks. 

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2 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

No; you have it twisted. Dake asked Yianni, who moonlights as a chiropractor, which doc had done his triceps reduction, and that same plastic surgeon did a gratuitous surgery on Dake just so Dake could avoid Ringer and Zahid for a few more weeks. 

Both Ringer & Zahid, is final X a tag team event?

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43 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

Just watched Flo video for first time.  People got confused when Dake mentioned the plastic surgeon.  He was talking about Dave Hirsch, Cornell wrestler who was a National Champ in the 90s.  That's why he as brought up... Cornell wrestling connection.  Apparently Hirsch recommended the surgeon that Yianni and Dake used for their injuries.  Hirsch had worked with the guy and vouched for his ability.

I think everyone understood those facts.  The narrative was strange enough to give the impression that the surgery may not have been successful despite the recommendation of the Cornell wrestler recommender and his having stressed to the surgeon that it was important not to screw this one up.

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Pretty simple if you do the math what he hurt.  I knew it weeks before so I'd bet Ringer had a pretty good idea.  Dake had to go through official channels and follow the procedures of the postponement.  Originally Taylor was going to ask for a delay but his was apparently worse than originally thought.  Common sense and wrestling intelligence suggests that Fargo will be the place.  

A lot of red asses on here seem to be calling out the toughness and professionalism of 2 of our country's proven "world's best".  Again, people hate winning.  

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2 minutes ago, LordNelson said:

Pretty simple if you do the math what he hurt.  I knew it weeks before so I'd bet Ringer had a pretty good idea.  Dake had to go through official channels and follow the procedures of the postponement.  Originally Taylor was going to ask for a delay but his was apparently worse than originally thought.  Common sense and wrestling intelligence suggests that Fargo will be the place.  

A lot of red asses on here seem to be calling out the toughness and professionalism of 2 of our country's proven "world's best".  Again, people hate winning.  

No, o hate Rob Koll

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1 hour ago, AHamilton said:

Just watched Flo video for first time.  People got confused when Dake mentioned the plastic surgeon.  He was talking about Dave Hirsch, Cornell wrestler who was a National Champ in the 90s.  That's why he as brought up... Cornell wrestling connection.  Apparently Hirsch recommended the surgeon that Yianni and Dake used for their injuries.  Hirsch had worked with the guy and vouched for his ability.

But Hirsch is an oral surgeon, not a plastic surgeon. Dake should know that.

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45 minutes ago, drag it said:

I think everyone understood those facts.  The narrative was strange enough to give the impression that the surgery may not have been successful despite the recommendation of the Cornell wrestler recommender and his having stressed to the surgeon that it was important not to screw this one up.

I don't think everyone really understood that.  Go back a few pages and people are confused as to what plastic surgery Dake had.  Also have a feeling that not a lot of people on this thread remember Dave Hirsch, and maybe even Dake didn't know how good he was.

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35 minutes ago, LordNelson said:

Pretty simple if you do the math what he hurt.  I knew it weeks before so I'd bet Ringer had a pretty good idea.  Dake had to go through official channels and follow the procedures of the postponement.  Originally Taylor was going to ask for a delay but his was apparently worse than originally thought.  Common sense and wrestling intelligence suggests that Fargo will be the place.  

A lot of red asses on here seem to be calling out the toughness and professionalism of 2 of our country's proven "world's best".  Again, people hate winning.  

I don't think people hate winning.  How is Taylor or Dake waiting for the last moment "winning?"  I support the both of them, but these were ridiculous and self-serving  delays, that will help keep our nation from performing its best at Worlds.

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1 minute ago, AHamilton said:

I don't think everyone really understood that.  Go back a few pages and people are confused as to what plastic surgery Dake had.  Also have a feeling that not a lot of people on this thread remember Dave Hirsch, and maybe even Dake didn't know how good he was.

Didn't see them but am sure you're right. I had commented on the reference to it in an earlier post because I thought the whole context was weird.

Hirsch does have a platinum resume!  Wasn't clear exactly what to what detail Dake knew other than he was a wrestling alum who now fixes people's faces. 

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8 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

I don't think people hate winning.  How is Taylor or Dake waiting for the last moment "winning?"  I support the both of them, but these were ridiculous and self-serving  delays, that will help keep our nation from performing its best at Worlds.

Maybe with regard to DT, but if Dake wins his wrestle-off, what say you? Then he would've helped us perform our best.

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6 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

I don't think people hate winning.  How is Taylor or Dake waiting for the last moment "winning?"  I support the both of them, but these were ridiculous and self-serving  delays, that will help keep our nation from performing its best at Worlds.

Self serving by definition, but isn't it reasonable under the rules, Dake particularly, since we think/hope he will be healthy enough to compete?  (If Taylor waited extra after he knew to try to keep out more likely world medalists who would get a bye next year, that is really pushing it).

Ridiculous, maybe, particularly the Taylor scenario above -- but an extension of the rules, which I'm thinking we both think might need changing or at least tweaking.

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The qualifying process is by far the best it’s ever been. These rules in particular are put in place to protect the interests of our best team, by protecting returning medalists.

People that don’t like them are personally annoyed because they just don’t like PD3. Dake vitriol is just collateral damage. It reminds me of the Trump electoral college debate. We should eliminate the safest most reliable representative process in the world because an ass won.

There are very few that can honestly say they’d rather have Deiringer than Dake until he proves himself by beating him. If you’re one of those people, kudos to your loyalties toward Alex. You’re not objective. But, since PD3 is controversial as a person we have to change everything so Alex can move up or Bo down. It’s hypocritical immature nonsense.


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51 minutes ago, LordNelson said:

The qualifying process is by far the best it’s ever been. These rules in particular are put in place to protect the interests of our best team, by protecting returning medalists.

People that don’t like them are personally annoyed because they just don’t like PD3. Dake vitriol is just collateral damage. It reminds me of the Trump electoral college debate. We should eliminate the safest most reliable representative process in the world because an ass won.

There are very few that can honestly say they’d rather have Deiringer than Dake until he proves himself by beating him. If you’re one of those people, kudos to your loyalties toward Alex. You’re not objective. But, since PD3 is controversial as a person we have to change everything so Alex can move up or Bo down. It’s hypocritical immature nonsense.


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9 hours ago, drag it said:

Self serving by definition, but isn't it reasonable under the rules, Dake particularly, since we think/hope he will be healthy enough to compete?  (If Taylor waited extra after he knew to try to keep out more likely world medalists who would get a bye next year, that is really pushing it).

Ridiculous, maybe, particularly the Taylor scenario above -- but an extension of the rules, which I'm thinking we both think might need changing or at least tweaking.

I do not blame Dake or Taylor for handling it the way they did. I am a huge fan of both guys as wrestlers. Certainly within the rules as they exist, and I am not really against the rules.  But, both guys appear to have delayed things enough to hurt Team USA.  And that is not "winning."  And I love winning.

And if Dake is healthy and defeats Ringer in the special wrestle off, that is great.  However, the process of making start his weight descent and peaking for Final X only to have it delayed isn't necessarily what is best for USA.  It is best for Dake, but not for the World Team.  "Winning" for the US would have been more transparency earlier in the process.

Whomever wins will certainly receive my support.

Edited by AHamilton

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