Dake officially injured, delay in Final X wrestle-off

[IronChef 812]

Going by the USAW rules, I guess you are correct.  Its not Dake or Taylors fault, they just took advantage of the rules.  It was my mistake for misinterpreting the rules.  I thought it was meant to be a sort of an incentive based on high performance rather than an excuse to use if you were injured.    Regardless, maybe Ringer was notified that this was a possibility, after all "the fortunate son" seemed to know about it when he tweeted about their hair.

Taylor and Dake shouldn't be lumped together here. Only one of them is requesting a delay.

[GockeS 412]

1 hour ago, wrestlingnerd said:

The surgery and injury is fake news?

Maybe it's always something with the dude because it IS always something. He's had, what, four surgeries now in as many years and half a dozen injuries that have kept him from competition?

wow

so much for functional patterns?

[GockeS 412]

i remember someone saying everyone else was doing it wrong?

[tbert 561]

11 minutes ago, IronChef said:

Taylor and Dake shouldn't be lumped together here. Only one of them is requesting a delay.

Probably, but his actions after losing to Cox and the tweets he sent after Cox Olympic loss,  I tend to judge both Taylor and Dake for what they are as people more than wrestlers.  

[AHamilton 671]

46 minutes ago, GockeS said:

i remember someone saying everyone else was doing it wrong?

 

46 minutes ago, GockeS said:

i remember someone saying everyone else was doing it wrong?

"fictional patterns"

[spladle08 753]

It's not this is an unprecedented ruling.

Remember when Marabel got injured at weigh ins?



Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Haha missed this earlier. #NiceReference. Crazy he is one of the few who can claim he beat JB

[wrestlingnerd 2,774]

1 hour ago, spladle08 said:

0% claiming its dishonest or against the rules.

 

100% feel the rules should be changed to where you have until WTT to announce, so the challenger has an adequate view of what to expect.

 

Spin it as Dake hatred. If you must, but it's not.

 

"Always something with this guy" was the comment that had nothing to do with the rules. I don't think you hate him but your comment speaks for itself.

[spladle08 753]

"Always something with this guy" was the comment that had nothing to do with the rules. I don't think you hate him but your comment speaks for itself.

Oh 100%. I think he's been one of the best in the world for years. But between his constant complaining about something to his awkward "everything I do to be my best" video (which delaying this could help him gain a percieved edge) .... this is maybe just the "straw" for me.

Just keep your head down and kick ass.

 

The gamesmanship of this delayed announcement is fine.

It just happens to be him where again: "theres always something"... but bigger picture... I dislike the rule and would appreciate it being done differently

Example a final x on May, X 2020 and May X 2020, if for whatever reason a member cant compete it will be announced at WTT and take place on June X...

 

Just structure it a little more instead of leaving it open to be dictated by the rasslers.

 

[DanGerMan 75]

I wonder what a "freak accident" is anyway. Why not say, "tripped over laundry basket while changing a diaper while wife was fixing car" or "knocked down by only Republican in Ithaca", etc. Those would be "freak". Without details, it's obviously some kind of trickery.

Also wondering, if Dake isn't ready for wrestle off before Worlds, can Downey drop down to 79 to challenge Ringer?

 

Edited June 5, 2019 by DanGerMan

[tbert 561]

1 hour ago, DanGerMan said:

I wonder what a "freak accident" is anyway. Why not say, "tripped over laundry basket while changing a diaper while wife was fixing car" or "knocked down by only Republican in Ithaca", etc. Those would be "freak". Without details, it's obviously some kind of trickery.

Also wondering, if Dake isn't ready for wrestle off before Worlds, can Downey drop down to 79 to challenge Ringer?

 

You havent read the fine print in the rules.   The rules are not meant for the participants that show some respect for their opponents.  These exceptions are only meant for the two USAW darlings.  

[scribe 1,664]

downey has to wrestle off with the best top 2 of the weight classes above and below him, then best of 3 with Yazdani, just to get a shot at a recovered David Taylor in 2020 before he can make this year's team.

[AHamilton 671]

8 hours ago, DanGerMan said:

I wonder what a "freak accident" is anyway. Why not say, "tripped over laundry basket while changing a diaper while wife was fixing car" or "knocked down by only Republican in Ithaca", etc. Those would be "freak". Without details, it's obviously some kind of trickery.

Also wondering, if Dake isn't ready for wrestle off before Worlds, can Downey drop down to 79 to challenge Ringer?

 

"Wearing blue glasses to filter out blue light for recovery.  Didn't see the blue stability ball and tripped over it."

I'm also wondering about the lady chiropractor's involvement?

[wildcatfan1992 47]

Other than boxing, what other sport allows participants to delay the process?  Can you imagine if Tiger Woods tweaked his back a month before the masters and requested that he be allowed to play it in May?  Or if Bob Kraft requested that the superbowl be pushed back a couple of weeks to let Tom Brady recover from a hamstring pull?  This is silly.  If a participant is unable to go on the scheduled date, too bad.  Get 'em next year.

[spladle08 753]

Other than boxing, what other sport allows participants to delay the process?  Can you imagine if Tiger Woods tweaked his back a month before the masters and requested that he be allowed to play it in May?  Or if Bob Kraft requested that the superbowl be pushed back a couple of weeks to let Tom Brady recover from a hamstring pull?  This is silly.  If a participant is unable to go on the scheduled date, too bad.  Get 'em next year.

Yeah I was talking to my old coach and that was his stance. If a guy cant wrestle he hasnt earned the right to delay the process, he's had 8months to get ready for one match, if that's not enough time, try again next year.

[AHamilton 671]

5 minutes ago, spladle08 said:

21 minutes ago, wildcatfan1992 said:

Other than boxing, what other sport allows participants to delay the process?  Can you imagine if Tiger Woods tweaked his back a month before the masters and requested that he be allowed to play it in May?  Or if Bob Kraft requested that the superbowl be pushed back a couple of weeks to let Tom Brady recover from a hamstring pull?  This is silly.  If a participant is unable to go on the scheduled date, too bad.  Get 'em next year.

Yeah I was talking to my old coach and that was his stance. If a guy cant wrestle he hasnt earned the right to delay the process, he's had 8months to get ready for one match, if that's not enough time, try again next year.

I understand the feeling.  I personally want the best team, so I am fine with the delay.  I do have ethical questions about the gamesmanship displayed by both Dake and Taylor.  I feel that Taylor may have potentially weakened our team with the timing of his announcement.  Likewise, Dake had to have known a long time ago that he wasn't ready and could have announced it at that point.

Both were well within their rights, but there are ethical questions.

Edited June 5, 2019 by AHamilton

[spladle08 753]

I understand the feeling.  I personally want the best team, so I am fine with the delay.  I do have ethical questions about the gamesmanship displayed by both Dake and Taylor.  I feel that Taylor may have potentially weakened our team with the timing of his announcement.  Likewise, Dake had to have known a long time ago that he wasn't ready and could have announced it at that point.

Yeah my old coach is cold blooded I dont necessarily share his view but I'm definitely on the side of the deadline for requesting the delay to be pre us open or trials. And the dates being firm: You either get to wrestle Final X this date or if you have a legitimate excuse you can opt for this other date. If you are seriously compromised itll be annouced a week before blah blah blah...

[wrestlingnerd 2,774]

The Tiger Woods analogy is bogus. The World Championships don't get rescheduled because a wrestler is injured. They just happen. The "competition" in question here is basically an internal wrestle-off to decide our rep for the Worlds. If that process cannot have some flexibility to allow for the best possible team to represent our country, then we are doing ourselves a huge disservice. By that train of thought, in addition to scrapping the right to postpone, we should also scrap the byes for world medalists, the best of 3 format, etc. Winner of the US Open is our rep....

[tec87 349]

Some people getting upset about Dake requesting a delay are getting ridiculous. You’re acting like it’s a spot for a tournament in 2 weeks and Dake is pushing out his wrestle off one more week while he tries to cut down to his weight class. The world championships are 3 months away still. If this is pushed out to mid July, it still benefits both guys. Gives Dake more time to get back to 100% and gives Ringer more to time train for just Dake and hopefully worlds. 

 

Call me me crazy but I would like to have the reigning world champ at 100% defending his title in the fall and if he’s not able to compete there, I want Ringer to have peaked and gone through the 100% best guy to get there and win his title. 

 

Would you guys rather Dake just forfeit like Taylor did? If Dake can compete and still has a couple months to train for worlds, I’m all for it. 

[AHamilton 671]

2 minutes ago, tec87 said:

Some people getting upset about Dake requesting a delay are getting ridiculous. You’re acting like it’s a spot for a tournament in 2 weeks and Dake is pushing out his wrestle off one more week while he tries to cut down to his weight class. The world championships are 3 months away still. If this is pushed out to mid July, it still benefits both guys. Gives Dake more time to get back to 100% and gives Ringer more to time train for just Dake and hopefully worlds. 

 

Call me me crazy but I would like to have the reigning world champ at 100% defending his title in the fall and if he’s not able to compete there, I want Ringer to have peaked and gone through the 100% best guy to get there and win his title. 

 

Would you guys rather Dake just forfeit like Taylor did? If Dake can compete and still has a couple months to train for worlds, I’m all for it. 

The problem is that Ringer peaked to wrestle this weekend, likely got his weight down etc.and Dake just trained away knowing that he had no intention of wrestling.  He has that right, but it isn't exactly ethical.  Now, I completely understand his situation, but look at it from Ringer's point of view. (Also, if Ringer wins he has LESS time to prep for World's)

I say this while agreeing that giving him a delay is the right thing and wanting the best Team USA.

[pamela 1,334]

11 hours ago, DanGerMan said:

I wonder what a "freak accident" is anyway. Why not say, "tripped over laundry basket while changing a diaper while wife was fixing car" or "knocked down by only Republican in Ithaca", etc. Those would be "freak". Without details, it's obviously some kind of trickery.

 Also wondering, if Dake isn't ready for wrestle off before Worlds, can Downey drop down to 79 to challenge Ringer?

  

He's trying to say that it was an accident that wasn't supposed to happen, but now you've got me wondering if it was something like this, lol!

 

[wildcatfan1992 47]

3 hours ago, wrestlingnerd said:

The Tiger Woods analogy is bogus. The World Championships don't get rescheduled because a wrestler is injured. They just happen. The "competition" in question here is basically an internal wrestle-off to decide our rep for the Worlds. If that process cannot have some flexibility to allow for the best possible team to represent our country, then we are doing ourselves a huge disservice. By that train of thought, in addition to scrapping the right to postpone, we should also scrap the byes for world medalists, the best of 3 format, etc. Winner of the US Open is our rep....

I'd be perfectly fine with having the US Open winner as our rep for World's/Olympics, and if somebody is injured and unable to compete, tough break.  I wouldn't want Dake or taylor or anybody else having the ability to opt out of the Open due to "injury" and request a special wrestle off weeks later.  Keep in mind that I am not questioning the legitimacy of Dake's current injury.  I just feel that if he can't compete on the date that the event is scheduled, then try again next year.

[NJDan 674]

3 hours ago, wrestlingnerd said:

The Tiger Woods analogy is bogus. The World Championships don't get rescheduled because a wrestler is injured. They just happen. The "competition" in question here is basically an internal wrestle-off to decide our rep for the Worlds. If that process cannot have some flexibility to allow for the best possible team to represent our country, then we are doing ourselves a huge disservice. By that train of thought, in addition to scrapping the right to postpone, we should also scrap the byes for world medalists, the best of 3 format, etc. Winner of the US Open is our rep....

Exactly, the process is not designed to be fair to the competitors. It is designed to derive the best possible Team USA.

That's why a lot of people (me included) are annoyed by the Taylor-Downey situation: Taylor's late announcement might have prevented the US from fielding its best squad. 

Dake has not done that. If he heals and beats Ringer, he makes our squad better. If he fails to heal or loses to Ringer, we will also have our best team.

[gimpeltf 1,643]

1 hour ago, pamela said:

He's trying to say that it was an accident that wasn't supposed to happen, but now you've got me wondering if it was something like this, lol!

Are there accidents that ARE supposed to happen?

[wrestlingnerd 2,774]

25 minutes ago, wildcatfan1992 said:

I'd be perfectly fine with having the US Open winner as our rep for World's/Olympics, and if somebody is injured and unable to compete, tough break.  I wouldn't want Dake or taylor or anybody else having the ability to opt out of the Open due to "injury" and request a special wrestle off weeks later.  Keep in mind that I am not questioning the legitimacy of Dake's current injury.  I just feel that if he can't compete on the date that the event is scheduled, then try again next year.

That’s fine that you feel that way, but to call the current process silly simply because USAW is not in the “one and done free-for-all” camp of wrestle-offs you’re in very shortsighted. While your approach might maximize “fairness” to all, it introduces the variable of chance to a much greater degree. After all, the outcome of every athletic competition of any kind is a mixture of skill and chance/luck. If the goal is to reduce chance/luck as much as reasonable to field the best possible team, the current process is very far from “silly.”

Again, we’re talkjng wrestle-offs, not the actual competition the wrestle-offs are for. Nobody ever suggested that the Worlds should be postponed due to Dake, as per your Tiger Woods analogy. 

[NJDan 674]

1 hour ago, pamela said:

He's trying to say that it was an accident that wasn't supposed to happen, but now you've got me wondering if it was something like this, lol!

 

OJ was so underrated as an actor. He was possibly better as an actor than he was as a football player or an ex-husband.