Jump to content
kgschalhoub

Women's College Wrestling

Recommended Posts

Now that the NCAA has given women's wrestling a D1 emerging sports status it will be interesting to see who jumps on board. I would like to see the Big 10 endorse it as a conference sport to force the entire conference to add it. Nationally, that would say a lot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A committee has recommended that all three divisions recognize wrestling as an emerging sport. The recommendation does not apply to just DI and the sport still has one more step before it is given emerging sport status. I assume that last bit is just a formality though.

It also seems likely that the sport will have no trouble getting above the 40 team threshold required to become an official NCAA championship sport.

We'll see if it picks up at the DI level where it will be revenue negative compared to smaller schools where the sport will actually help the schools financially. As of now, is Presbyterian the only DI school to have announced a team? Lock Haven announced recently, but they are already DI in field hockey so women's wrestling will be DII, though it will be awhile before that distinction makes any difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not the biggest fan of Tom Brands' coaching but I love how supportive he is of women's wrestling, at the RTC and college levels. Smart move and good for the sport. If NCAA womens' wrestling were to take off, Iowa would be in a very advantageous position with a lot of relationship and status capital. Some might think that doesn't matter for the men's team, but rising tides and all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just hope that for AD's to "add women's wrestling", they don't look to cut some funding from men's wrestling to pay for it.

That is a 100% realistic possibilty and would be a total backfire.

Plus, I would like to see a separate NCAA national championships.  Do not combine them both like in freestyle.  They could combine all 3 levels and hold all 3 tournaments on the same weekend in a place like Rec Hall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Title 9 is here to stay.

All but a few college sports teams are money losers. That being so, most college teams (and probably all wrestling teams) are forcibly subsidized by taxpayers and students — half of which are women. 

So what does college wrestling do with that reality?

I think the smartest thing to do is embrace women’s wrestling.  At many schools, I think it would be totally possible to displace one of the least popular women’s sports programs with women’s wrestling. On the whole, women just aren’t as interested in sports as men are. 

Men’s lacrosse is currently experiencing a boom at the college level, even in the face of Title 9. I see no reason women’s wrestling couldn’t attempt something similar. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wouldn't it be interesting if a men's wrestling program was dropped to allow a women's wrestling program?

Maybe they could drop the number of weight classes so the combined NCAA Finals don't take 6 hours because I can guarantee you someone has thought about intermixing it just like Final X and the WTT.

Edited by Boompa

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/8/2019 at 10:01 AM, Katie said:

Title 9 is here to stay.

All but a few college sports teams are money losers. That being so, most college teams (and probably all wrestling teams) are forcibly subsidized by taxpayers and students — half of which are women. 

So what does college wrestling do with that reality?

I think the smartest thing to do is embrace women’s wrestling.  At many schools, I think it would be totally possible to displace one of the least popular women’s sports programs with women’s wrestling. On the whole, women just aren’t as interested in sports as men are. 

Men’s lacrosse is currently experiencing a boom at the college level, even in the face of Title 9. I see no reason women’s wrestling couldn’t attempt something similar. 

Katie - it isn’t worth engaging with people like this. They are just looking for attention. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/10/2019 at 12:48 PM, Dr. Novak said:

As a non-binary person I find the formation of gender specific teams offensive.  

ya, we know,...and your favorite breakfast cereal is fruit loops...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Funny, but I was going to start a new thread today about NCAA Women Wrestling and advocate for it, happy for it, and also feel it can help with the Title IX issue. But my main point was to suggest that I think NCAA Women Wrestling should be completely FREESTYLE, and not go with folkstyle. They are starting out of the gate, and they should start with the international style, and this is coming from a person who likes folkstyle over freestyle. I'm a bigger college wrestling fan than international, and love folkstyle, but for women, out of this gate, at this time, they should bring freestyle to the college experience. I think this would actually enhance the endorsement of freestyle in the folkstyle community of college wrestling all around including men's wrestling. I'm liking more and more, particularly with the new rules, freestyle, but folkstyle is still totally awesome.

Edited by skikayaker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Building women's D1 wrestling is huge for securing the future of the sport.  It is amazing that a non revenue sport like wrestling has been able to survive without having a women's equivalent team.  Women's wrestling shouldn't be much of an added cost on top of men's (at smaller schools they can just have the same coach run both like many track/XC teams do).  Would be great if some tournaments started having women's divisions to cut down and traveling costs as well. 

 

My only question at the moment is participation at the HS level.  How does participation in girl's wrestling in HS compare to some of the less popular women's sport (e.g. crew)?  How does it compare to the more popular ones (volleyball, field hockey, lacrosse)? Is it enough to fill teams with diverse geographic locations (i.e. I know there are many girls wrestling in Texas, but we can't expect many of them to go to college in MA)?

Edited by Billyhoyle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Comparing NFHS #'s in 2017-18 to NCAA Participation #'s in the same year for girls. This only includes NCAA schools, not schools from other divisions. With the NCAA not tracking women's wrestling, my women's college wrestling estimate will run high, approximating 30 athletes per school of the 17 NCAA schools that have wrestling programs prior to next season. The women's NCAA wrestling #'s are the only thing here that are have not officially been tracked. 

NCAA Championship Sports
Rowing/Crew

HS: 2,094
NCAA: 7,277

Sand Volleyball
HS: 1,734
NCAA: 1,165

Fencing
HS: 2,085
NCAA: 706

Gymnastics
HS: 18,867
NCAA: 1,547

Ice Hockey
HS: 9,609
NCAA: 2,400

NCAA Emerging Sports
Equestrian

HS: 1,200
NCAA: 1,381

Rugby
HS: 539
NCAA: 480

Squash
HS: 63
NCAA: 436

Potential Emerging Sports
Women's Wrestling

HS: 16,562
NCAA: **480** (high estimate)
 

There will be 27 NCAA schools with varsity wrestling programs competing or scheduled to compete at the start of the 2020-21 season. We're adding women's programs at the NCAA level at a pretty good clip. In the last three years, 31 new women's teams have been added or announced to be added. Of those, 18 are at NCAA schools. 

As it relates to tracked HS girls participation (from the NFHS), here's how girls wrestling has grown at the HS level in the past decade. 

2009: 6,025
2010: 6,134
2011: 7,351
2012: 8,235
2013: 8,727
2014: 9,904
2015: 11,496
2016: 13,496
2017: 14,587
2018: 16,542

With now 18 states sanctioning or ready to sanction girls wrestling, this number will only go upward. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

What?

From what I’ve seen if you are a pretty athletic girl several colleges are offering you some funding to be on the squad even if you haven’t had any prior rowing experience. They need to fill in all the other seats that the prep school and international students didn’t take. 

Edited by MadMardigain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, MadMardigain said:

From what I’ve seen if you are a pretty athletic girl a lot of colleges are offering you some funding to be on the squad even if you haven’t had prior rowing experience. They need to fill in all the other seats that the prep school and international students didn’t take.

I know, the numbers are just preposterous, had no idea it was that imbalanced.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Squash and equestrian also have significant international flavor, both are also primarily club-based sports in the U.S. compared to legitimate HS opportunities, so using NFHS numbers in all of the sports that look low might not be 100% legit when comparing actual participation amongst potential high school athletes, but the NFHS is what we have and that's what we use. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

I know, the numbers are just preposterous, had no idea it was that imbalanced.  

Ironically it’s because rowing and crew are such expensive programs for universities to maintain and have such large roster sizes. Because of Title 9 a lot of universities with major football programs struggle to find ways to spend enough money on women’s athletics (has to be equal to what they spend on men’s athletics) and show a roughly equal number of male and female athletes. Equal numbers means a men’s sport like football (100+ guys on roster) creates a big challenge for universities. Rowing teams have a huge roster, hence why colleges are so interested in college rowing despite the fact there are laughably few high school rowing programs and participants. 

Ironically women’s wrestling would probably be more appealing to college athletic departments if they had even more weight classes than men’s wrestling. 

Link to an article about a recent rowing scandal at Iowa. Also look into what happened at the University of Washington in 2017 if you’re interested.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thegazette.com/subject/news/education/higher-education/some-say-false-gender-balance-in-university-of-iowa-athletics-20160306%3ftemplate=amphtml

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suspect the number of men on crew teams in college is greater than the number in high school. At least in the Northeast, every college has a crew team where only a few exclusive prep schools have high school teams

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jbonecapone said:

My wife never did crew until college. Only played volleyball and lacrosse in hs. Was offered tuition assistance when she joined crew. 

I’ve heard similar stories. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those numbers from JB are great-the participation seems like more than enough to support D1 women's wrestling.  So the question now is how can we get these programs added in an environment where athletic departments want to cut non revenue sports?  Is our greatest strength the fact that it will likely be an inexpensive sport to add if a men's program is already in place?  

 

 

Edited by Billyhoyle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But my main point was to suggest that I think NCAA Women Wrestling should be completely FREESTYLE, and not go with folkstyle.

I don’t think there’s any reason to believe this wouldn’t be the case. Just because it’s NCAA doesn’t mean they would switch to men’s rules. Plenty of sports have different rules for men and women.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Billyhoyle said:

Those numbers from JB are great-the participation seems like more than enough to support D1 women's wrestling.  So the question now is how can we get these programs added in an environment where athletic departments want to cut non revenue sports?  Is our greatest strength the fact that it will likely be an inexpensive sport to add if a men's program is already in place?  

I imagine one thing working in favor of new programs is that the start-up costs are relatively manageable for universities that already have a men's program.  It makes a ton of sense for smaller universities and directional public universities that are struggling with enrollment and already have wrestling facilities (like Lock Haven, for instance).  It's going to be a lot tougher to get the ball rolling at the major conference level, though.  

Places like Gardner Webb, Bloomsburg, Clarion, Edinboro, Rider all come to mind. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...