Final X Rutgers live thread

[Full Nelson 37]

2 minutes ago, scribe said:

Who cares if men/boys beat women. That's not the idea of the sport and competition. 

Agreed, that really is besides the point.  

As I watch women's wrestling I see less sophisticated or elegant movement.   Hard to put into words.  It's more basic wrestling relying a lot on strength.   
I'm not even sure my observation is true because I haven't watched a ton of women's wrestling.   Don't see, say, ankle picks setup with movement.
I don't think the women have been wrestling since they were little kids and that shows.   They aren't as smooth as men.

[Perry 956]

I'm not even a Yianni homer, but that call was egrigious. I am also not a Zain fan as he is thanking of face mushes and head clubs. I would prefer him to do well vs poorly and my original comment was too full of emotion. There should still be a 3rd match though

[boconnell 1,356]

1 minute ago, Full Nelson said:

Agreed, that really is besides the point.  

As I watch women's wrestling I see less sophisticated or elegant movement.   Hard to put into words.  It's more basic wrestling relying a lot on strength.   
I'm not even sure my observation is true because I haven't watched a ton of women's wrestling.   Don't see, say, ankle picks setup with movement.
I don't think the women have been wrestling since they were little kids and that shows.   They aren't as smooth as men.

They've been wrestling since they were kids.  

But there are 1/10 as many of them in a sport with less history and worse coaching.  Give them 20 years and they will be like the men technically and the only differences will be physical.  It took men 75 years to evolve to this point technically.  The sport is in it's infancy and it shows.  

[fullnelson 76]

2 minutes ago, boconnell said:

They've been wrestling since they were kids.  

But there are 1/10 as many of them in a sport with less history and worse coaching.  Give them 20 years and they will be like the men technically and the only differences will be physical.  It took men 75 years to evolve to this point technically.  The sport is in it's infancy and it shows.  

Women's wrestling has been around longer than MMA. MMA has grown in leaps and bounds technically;  there is no reason to ever compare women to men in wrestling; it's true in all sports, but especially physical sports.

[Coach_J 1,829]

7 minutes ago, MadMardigain said:

Someone correct me if I’m wrong but I believe they said it was our main US official Tucci on the replay with another top official with many years of international experience Errett beside him at the scores table.  Not sure you can get much higher in the US than them.  Clarifying how the replay rules are applied is a better avenue to get fixed.  

Don't care who they are.  Bad call is a bad call.  And correcting anything a minute after it happened is BS.  A minute goes by with both men adjusting strategy according to what they believe the score to be at the moment.  I'll wait to see what happens but don't like what I've seen so far.

[buckshot1969 352]

I can't help but think that if Yianni really wanted a 3rd match he wouldn't have lost 10-4 in the first one.

[fullnelson 76]

1 minute ago, Coach_J said:

Don't care who they are.  Bad call is a bad call.  And correcting anything a minute after it happened is BS.  A minute goes by with both men adjusting strategy according to what they believe the score to be at the moment.  I'll wait to see what happens but don't like what I've seen so far.

An explanation was given in the Flo post meet comments, that they went back 45-50 seconds to where the sequence began and continued for so long.

[Coach_J 1,829]

Just now, buckshot1969 said:

I can't help but think that if Yianni really wanted a 3rd match he wouldn't have lost 10-4 in the first one.

Trying to find one scrap of common sense in this comment.  What does a loss in match one have to do with the outcome in match 2?  Because he was handily beaten in round one means he can get screwed in round two?  So because he lost round one he should have just forfeited round two because he really didn't want a round three?

[nhs67 361]

Just now, Coach_J said:

Trying to find one scrap of common sense in this comment.  What does a loss in match one have to do with the outcome in match 2?  Because he was handily beaten in round one means he can get screwed in round two?  So because he lost round one he should have just forfeited round two because he really didn't want a round three?

I don't think it was meant to appear as if it was a 'common sense' comment.

[Coach_J 1,829]

Just now, nhs67 said:

I don't think it was meant to appear as if it was a 'common sense' comment.

Great success then.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r13riaRKGo0

[MadMardigain 1,017]

14 minutes ago, Coach_J said:

Don't care who they are.  Bad call is a bad call.  And correcting anything a minute after it happened is BS.  A minute goes by with both men adjusting strategy according to what they believe the score to be at the moment.  I'll wait to see what happens but don't like what I've seen so far.

Some of the issue is the rules set up for this regardless of how the sequence was scored.   Rules need to better define what a  continuous sequence of moves is  and/or the limit to how far a replay can go back based on when the brink is thrown. Both those thing gave the officials the freedom to review to the extent they did. 

Edited June 9 by MadMardigain

[Coach_J 1,829]

3 minutes ago, MadMardigain said:

Rules need to better define a continuous sequence of moves and/or the limit to a replay at the point the brink is thrown then. Both those thing gave the officials the freedom to review to the extent they did. 

I agree.  They should not be given the freedom to overturn a correct call that was made over a minute ago.  Bad echoes of Kolat getting bouts overturned after they were already over (throw in Kuzu, Lewboo).  Not good for the game.

Edited June 9 by Coach_J

[fullnelson 76]

Are there avenues available to actually protest a match, especially when the top brass are the ones making the matside review decisions?

[MadMardigain 1,017]

3 minutes ago, fullnelson said:

Are there avenues available to actually protest a match, especially when the top brass are the ones making the matside review decisions?

It has happened before and even taken past the top official brass.  Usually at the Olympic trial level though.   Sometimes overturned.  Sometimes not.  I guess it depends if YD’s coaches want to take it past a general event protest or not.  

Edited June 9 by MadMardigain

[WRfan1 139]

3 minutes ago, fullnelson said:

Are there avenues available to actually protest a match, especially when the top brass are the ones making the matside review decisions?

It's hard not to start to consider that the "top brass" may be part of the issue.  Reminds me of Dake/Burroughs from a few years ago.  They were going to find a way for Dake to lose that match regardless.   While we've come a long way from the days of USA Wrestling selling its soul to Dupont for a buck, it still knows where its bread is buttered and has a stake in these outcomes.  That overturn was egregious, pure and simple.

[Perry 956]

Looks like the appeal is real

[AIW-HS 11]

The appeal is real. But It would be surprising if anything came out of it. 

[VakAttack 1,988]

Zain-Yianni out 2 was inexplicable.  If you're going to overturn something from a minute left (which I'm against), everything else should be "bad time" and the match restarted from that point.

[buckshot1969 352]

1 hour ago, Coach_J said:

Trying to find one scrap of common sense in this comment.  What does a loss in match one have to do with the outcome in match 2?  Because he was handily beaten in round one means he can get screwed in round two?  So because he lost round one he should have just forfeited round two because he really didn't want a round three?

It's like when a guy lets a match come down to one takedown in the last 30 seconds. Yianni got beat then he let the 2nd match come down to the refs and when you do that you lose sometimes.

[GockeS 243]

6 minutes ago, buckshot1969 said:

It's like when a guy lets a match come down to one takedown in the last 30 seconds. Yianni got beat then he let the 2nd match come down to the refs and when you do that you lose sometimes.

he didn't let it come down to the refs. he was ahead 8-6

and they took it from him.

i wanted z to win. but dont psu all over this

[scramble 140]

9 minutes ago, buckshot1969 said:

It's like when a guy lets a match come down to one takedown in the last 30 seconds. Yianni got beat then he let the 2nd match come down to the refs and when you do that you lose sometimes.

The last 30 seconds of a match where point separation occurs due to a wrestler having to make something happen is insignificant as far as separation in who is far superior.  It is not uncommon to see points scored in droves by the Victor when the other guys go fo broke.  The reality is that Yianni and Zane a very close and will continue to go back and forth. 

[Katie 612]

1 hour ago, WRfan1 said:

It's hard not to start to consider that the "top brass" may be part of the issue.  Reminds me of Dake/Burroughs from a few years ago.  They were going to find a way for Dake to lose that match regardless.   While we've come a long way from the days of USA Wrestling selling its soul to Dupont for a buck, it still knows where its bread is buttered and has a stake in these outcomes.  That overturn was egregious, pure and simple.

What happened with "Dake/Burroughs"?

[TBar1977 3,303]

2 hours ago, GockeS said:

agreed, but the challenge should have come sooner... or they put time back to that point... b/c yanni wrestles differently if score changes.

again, i wanted z to win... but this was wrong.

Freestyle doesn't put time back on the clock, only folk does that. 

[CaliWrestler 45]

1 minute ago, Katie said:

What happened with "Dake/Burroughs"?

Think he’s talking US open when JB was clubbing Dake and was only won on shot clock points

[TBar1977 3,303]

1 hour ago, MadMardigain said:

Some of the issue is the rules set up for this regardless of how the sequence was scored.   Rules need to better define what a  continuous sequence of moves is  and/or the limit to how far a replay can go back based on when the brink is thrown. Both those thing gave the officials the freedom to review to the extent they did. 

Isn't it continuous if there is no break in the action? The wrestlers are not reset at center? If so, then the final 50 seconds are one long continuous action.