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Final X Rutgers live thread

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15 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Isn't it continuous if there is no break in the action? The wrestlers are not reset at center? If so, then the final 50 seconds are one long continuous action. 

Basically or at least a good period of no movement with someone with clear control on top.  Which is why part of the issue is what the rules should consider continuous before we can blame part of the matches controversial end on how the review process was handled.  When you want to engage in a scramblefest then the action is going to be pretty continuous.  

Edited by MadMardigain

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3 minutes ago, MadMardigain said:

Basically or at least a long stall with someone on clear control.  Which is why part of the issue is what the rules should consider continuous before we can blame part of the matches controversial end on how the review process was handled.  When you want to engage in a scramblefest then the action is going to be pretty continuous.  

Basically it shows how freestyle scoring stinks when no one knows who scored, how much, when or why.

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Koll's immediate answer as to why the protest was him saying about the 5 second rule. I have no idea how that rule is written or enforced. I saw the brick immediately after the final horn ended the match which is also immediately after the scramble ends. Does the corner have to throw the brick following the awarding of points earlier in the scramble, or can they wait for stoppage or end of sequence (which is also end of the match)? 

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43 minutes ago, MadMardigain said:

Basically or at least a good period of no movement with someone with clear control on top.  Which is why part of the issue is what the rules should consider continuous before we can blame part of the matches controversial end on how the review process was handled.  When you want to engage in a scramblefest then the action is going to be pretty continuous.  

We missed a beautiful teaching moment here.  If the officials got it right, and the system worked, a brief, yet accurate breakdown of how the points were scored, seems like something we should be able to do?  Piggybacking on that, can you imagine being taken seriously by gamblers when even lifelong wrestling fans can't agree on how a match should be scored.  

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16 minutes ago, dmm53 said:

From the rule book:

image.png.e801abd2ac61a34c67be5c9f6c77b489.png

Good find. But is this the controlling rule? This rule starts with the challenge having been made according to the rules and then says how the officials should handle it. But according to other posts, the challenge needs to be made in the first place within 5 seconds of the call that is objected to.  In this case, Zain's corner didn't object within 5 seconds of Yianni being given 2 (and by implication Zain being given 0).  I think??

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Can we all at least agree that the rules (supposing they were appropriately applied) are sub-optimal.  If there is an end-of-period review that results in a score change, the wrestling should continue at the time of the score change.  The idea that the wrestler's tactics and the entire dynamics of the match do not change in response to the score change is preposterous - only to be outdone by the fact that our rules somehow do not take this into account. 

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Not sure if they still emphasize this nowadays but a few decades back when I officiated international styles the resulting potential strategy change due to a different score was intentionally dismissed since you were always supposed to be going 100% so how could anything change?

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Wrong calls and bad rules are a part of every sport.  It's like there is a margin of error in any competition.  So you have to win by more than the margin of error to make sure you don't get screwed.

Zain was the better wrestler last night.  He won the first match, and the second match was undetermined.   Yainni got screwed,  but at least the guy who showed better advanced.

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9 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

Koll's immediate answer as to why the protest was him saying about the 5 second rule. I have no idea how that rule is written or enforced. I saw the brick immediately after the final horn ended the match which is also immediately after the scramble ends. Does the corner have to throw the brick following the awarding of points earlier in the scramble, or can they wait for stoppage or end of sequence (which is also end of the match)? 

 I think it's safe to say that there are probably more bricks thrown after 5 seconds then before 5 seconds They weren't gonna stop the match during the scrambling anyways

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The initial action of match 2 imo can easily be scored 4 red 2 blue. The action/ exposure at the end happens only after Zain posts his left foot and pushes strongly off of it while also lifting Yianni's right leg, so Zain initiated that action. If Yianni could have exposed Zain without Zain initiating by pushing off his left foot and posting/lifting the leg then Yianni would have done so earlier in that sequence. But he didn't do that and frankly watching the relative body positions of the two wrestlers it doesn't even look possible.  Yianni was holding on to the chest wrap for dear life, but unable to initiate a turn. When Zain initiates that exposure sequence by driving off the left foot and lifting Yianni's leg Yianni just rolls with it. What else was left but to roll with it. But nothing changes position wise. Why should he get rewarded for getting turned there? For just accentuating what is going to happen anyway, that he is going to get turned. He went on that ride and he is great at making it look like his action caused exposure, but the officials, correctly imo, ruled it Zain's action. 

Edited by TBar1977

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Just now, tbert said:

 I think it's safe to say that there are probably more bricks thrown after 5 seconds then before 5 seconds They weren't gonna stop the match during the scrambling anyways

Totally agree. Also. bricks are thrown at the end of matches after time has expired all the time.

What are we more concerned about here, the timing of the brick toss or who actually scored or did not score? 

Lots of sour grapes. 

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29 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Totally agree. Also. bricks are thrown at the end of matches after time has expired all the time.

What are we more concerned about here, the timing of the brick toss or who actually scored or did not score? 

Lots of sour grapes. 

We dont really know that yet do we? 

I do know that, no matter what the rules say, the opening sequence of the match would never have been scored 4-4 internationally.  Probably not even 4-2.  Yanni was on the fortunate side of that scoring.  

My advise to the whining Koll would be not to encourage a scrambling game plan in a freestyle match.

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12 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

Isn't it continuous if there is no break in the action? The wrestlers are not reset at center? If so, then the final 50 seconds are one long continuous action. 

they were holding onto each others legs for quite some time... no action.

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10 hours ago, dmm53 said:

From the rule book:

image.png.e801abd2ac61a34c67be5c9f6c77b489.png

this basically says that the brick should have been thrown earlier.

the match may or may not have been stopped... but the brick should have been thrown at the time of the egregious call.

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1 hour ago, tbert said:

We dont really know that yet do we? 

I do know that, no matter what the rules say, the opening sequence of the match would never have been scored 4-4 internationally.  Probably not even 4-2.  Yanni was on the fortunate side of that scoring.  

My advise to the whining Koll would be not to encourage a scrambling game plan in a freestyle match.

You misspelled winning. 

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2 hours ago, gimpeltf said:

Not sure if they still emphasize this nowadays but a few decades back when I officiated international styles the resulting potential strategy change due to a different score was intentionally dismissed since you were always supposed to be going 100% so how could anything change?

so when the mongolian stopped wrestling for 3 seconds and we had the whole stripping incident...

how is this different than Jden cox running for at least a minute at the end against nickal

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2 hours ago, tbert said:

 I think it's safe to say that there are probably more bricks thrown after 5 seconds then before 5 seconds They weren't gonna stop the match during the scrambling anyways

 

 

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