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Final X Rutgers live thread

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11 minutes ago, GockeS said:

so when the mongolian stopped wrestling for 3 seconds and we had the whole stripping incident...

how is this different than Jden cox running for at least a minute at the end against nickal

Huh?

What does this have to do with a review changing the score?

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3 hours ago, gimpeltf said:

Not sure if they still emphasize this nowadays but a few decades back when I officiated international styles the resulting potential strategy change due to a different score was intentionally dismissed since you were always supposed to be going 100% so how could anything change?

was cox going 100%?

you are saying that cox wouldn't have wrestled differently had he not been ahead?

yanni felt he was ahead and wrestled accordingly. had he been behind...that would have changed.

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Just now, GockeS said:

was cox going 100%?

you are saying that cox wouldn't have wrestled differently had he not been ahead?

yanni felt he was ahead and wrestled accordingly. had he been behind...that would have changed.

So you're admitting that Yianni wasn't going 100%? That's the point. You're supposed to go 100% at all times and so it's assumed you are until you get penalized for passivity. Therefore the rules dismiss intentionally going less than 100% as an excuse. 

I'm not saying that in reality that's what happens in the wrestlers/coaches minds. I'm saying according the international philosophy (at least from back then) it's dismissed as an excuse for changing a score. Admitting that you would have wrestled differently depending on the score means you are also admitting to not trying to score constantly. Again, in reality nobody does that but it's not allowed as an excuse.

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3 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

So you're admitting that Yianni wasn't going 100%? That's the point. You're supposed to go 100% at all times and so it's assumed you are until you get penalized for passivity. Therefore the rules dismiss intentionally going less than 100% as an excuse. 

I'm not saying that in reality that's what happens in the wrestlers/coaches minds. I'm saying according the international philosophy (at least from back then) it's dismissed as an excuse for changing a score. Admitting that you would have wrestled differently depending on the score means you are also admitting to not trying to score constantly. Again, in reality nobody does that but it's not allowed as an excuse.

I agree about the excuse part. but. you wrestle the match strategically based on the information at hand.

did zain do the same thing in the first match? simply hang on. to protect his lead? he did it at 100% i bet.

did you see any other wrestler? 

did cox run for 1:30 of each match? he ran at 100% capacity.

was  yanni going 100% to protect his lead? definitely. so yes, he was going 100% under the circumstances that he was given. he was in the lead and wrestled accordingly.

im not a yanni fan. well i am but im not a fan girl like some on here.

I wanted zain to win. but it's like free speech. I may be in power now, but what happens when people dont like what I say? what happens when these bad calls are used against me? 

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7 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

So you're admitting that Yianni wasn't going 100%? That's the point. You're supposed to go 100% at all times and so it's assumed you are until you get penalized for passivity. Therefore the rules dismiss intentionally going less than 100% as an excuse. 

I'm not saying that in reality that's what happens in the wrestlers/coaches minds. I'm saying according the international philosophy (at least from back then) it's dismissed as an excuse for changing a score. Admitting that you would have wrestled differently depending on the score means you are also admitting to not trying to score constantly. Again, in reality nobody does that but it's not allowed as an excuse.

btw, i have no idea what 100% for yanni is. neither do you.

no one knows who initiated the move... which is the same... too much subjectivity.

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Let's try this a different way- saying someone would have wrestled differently depending on the score while in reality is what would normally happen is irrelevant to conducting a review. Figure out what the score should have been for that sequence and move on.
I should add that I just now saw the sequence for the first time. I'm prejudiced based on seeing that Sammy reffed it but I agree it should have been 2 Blue only. However, my first view did leave me thinking 2-2 was possible. The review of mine agreed with the view (I think yours on another thread?) that Yianni's left leg did all the work but I was also looking to see if I thought Zain dropped his shoulder to roll through. Initially I thought he might have which is why I thought 2-2 was possible. I first noticed that Zain was pulled over the top which gives Y some initiation but I couldn't figure out how they started the roll without Z's initiation. It is possible for both wrestlers to initiate action. Y could have hit a crotch throw while Z did a roll through. It's not like Z hits a double and was continuous rendering Y's crotch throw irrelevant. Y did stop Z. So at that point it is conceivable.

However, again right now I see 2 Blue.

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23 minutes ago, GockeS said:

btw, i have no idea what 100% for yanni is. neither do you.

no one knows who initiated the move... which is the same... too much subjectivity.

At times in freestyle knowing who initiates the move is often difficult to determine and makes for very subjective scoring.  However in this case it wasn't difficult to see who initiated the roll through.  It was obviously Yianni's move and the ref was correct in how he scored it - 2 blue (Yianni) - I can't believe they could mess this up so badly in multiple ways.   The brick came out way to late to review that sequence and if it was reviewed the proper way to score it was 2 blue 0 red.

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3 minutes ago, lu1979 said:

At times in freestyle knowing who initiates the move is often difficult to determine and makes for very subjective scoring.  However in this case it wasn't difficult to see who initiated the roll through.  It was obviously Yianni's move and the ref was correct in how he scored it - 2 blue (Yianni) - I can't believe they could mess this up so badly in multiple ways.   The brick came out way to late to review that sequence and if it was reviewed the proper way to score it was 2 blue 0 red.

after seeing replay i tend to agree with you.

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24 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

Let's try this a different way- saying someone would have wrestled differently depending on the score while in reality is what would normally happen is irrelevant to conducting a review. Figure out what the score should have been for that sequence and move on.
I should add that I just now saw the sequence for the first time. I'm prejudiced based on seeing that Sammy reffed it but I agree it should have been 2 Blue only. However, my first view did leave me thinking 2-2 was possible. The review of mine agreed with the view (I think yours on another thread?) that Yianni's left leg did all the work but I was also looking to see if I thought Zain dropped his shoulder to roll through. Initially I thought he might have which is why I thought 2-2 was possible. I first noticed that Zain was pulled over the top which gives Y some initiation but I couldn't figure out how they started the roll without Z's initiation. It is possible for both wrestlers to initiate action. Y could have hit a crotch throw while Z did a roll through. It's not like Z hits a double and was continuous rendering Y's crotch throw irrelevant. Y did stop Z. So at that point it is conceivable.

However, again right now I see 2 Blue.

i agree. the manner in which someone wrestles is IRRELEVANT to the review... however, that doesn't make up for the fact the match would have been wrestled differently.

someone mentioned there is no 'bad time' in freestyle. perhaps that needs to change.

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Lets be honest. Wrestlers like jden and varner consistely win more medals. You will never see me wrestle like zain/yanni jden said. A W is what i am after. I like that! The black Varner. Just kidding:-) jden is my new favorite guy. You can not score on the guy!!!

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2 hours ago, scribe said:

You misspelled winning. 

It is quite amusing and somewhat encouraging that since the 2015 NCAA tournament, Koll has found a new appreciation in seeing the correct wrestler won.  Even after bashing the USAW rules and officials, he uses a clause in USAW by laws to protest, something that was not an option to his wrestler's opponent in quarterfinals of 2015.

 

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3 hours ago, GockeS said:

i agree. the manner in which someone wrestles is IRRELEVANT to the review... however, that doesn't make up for the fact the match would have been wrestled differently.

someone mentioned there is no 'bad time' in freestyle. perhaps that needs to change.

The reason you don't roll back the clock is that you ALSO have the five second rule. If the brick s thrown on time, there is little or no bad time to roll back.

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4 hours ago, headshuck said:

5d649d8dff1e99563b8740b9f86c98a5.jpg

Haha. I love Jden! I am serious. I truly think he is our best wrestler now. His style really does remind me of Varner. He has got some slick moves, extremely strong, but only uses them when he needs to. No offensive points from Bo in two matches. That is sick! 

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Haha. I love Jden! I am serious. I truly think he is our best wrestler now. His style really does remind me of Varner. He has got some slick moves, extremely strong, but only uses them when he needs to. No offensive points from Bo in two matches. That is sick! 
He's much better more offensive than Varner and way more tactical.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

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1 minute ago, cjc007 said:

He's much better more offensive than Varner and way more tactical.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk
 

I would agree with that somewhat. I think Snyder, Varner and Cox would all be one takedown matches. Varner has got one more year in him but I doubt he will do it in 2020. If Bo can bulk can you imagine Bo, Snyder and Cox in 2020. Bo would have to Bulk up and get better though-depends how bad he wants it. 

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I thought the ENTIRE point of this wasn’t that Sanderson threw the brick in late as the challenge wasn’t for the start of the exchange. 

Didn’t the refs decide to review the entire sequence on their own as there was not a break in the action from the beginning of it?

If so, how is it wrong for the refs to try to make sure a call was correct?  I can see arguing whether or not the call was changed correctly, or if there should be “bad time” for a change that far back, but I don’t see the issue with the challenge itself.....

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48 minutes ago, cjc007 said:

He's much better more offensive than Varner and way more tactical.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk
 

Varner was an Olympic Gold Medalist.  It's disingenuous to pretend Cox is better at everything than Varner was.  But I guess it makes sense, since Varner is the only guy to get less credit than Cox.  It amazes me how much smart fans allow aesthetics to determine their evaluations of wrestling.

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