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Just now, Katie said:

So when Dake traps an offensive wrestler’s arms and head, scoots his hips in, lifts the guy off the mat and launches him, he’s not stopping or redirecting the offensive wrestler’s original hold? Are you serious?

No, he is. That's the point lol. Yianni stopped Zain's move, changed his direction, and (should have) scored.

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19 minutes ago, GockeS said:

you are forgetting.

i wanted Zain to win.

what happens when a call like this goes against a wrestler you like? 

Calls go against wrestlers I like all the time. Part of this sport, or any sport.

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31 minutes ago, qc8223 said:

 

Answer this question: Are you saying that Zain intended to roll over the top of that position to expose yianni? 

Not exactly. What I am saying is that Zain initiated the action and that he was the wrestler who took the risk to score. It was him, not yianni, who initiated.

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28 minutes ago, qc8223 said:

No, he absolutely did not. Watch it again. Zain shelfs the foot on his left hip then shifts his weight BACK and pauses. Then Yianni pushes off his left foot to initiate the roll. There was little to no forward pressure into Yianni at the time of the roll. The roll was against Zain's momentum not with it.

Again, you've constructed a definition to fit the conclusion you want, and that definition essentially eliminates all counter exposures from scoring.

Yianni does not push off that left instep. He does not even have his foot planted. 

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24 minutes ago, qc8223 said:

No, he absolutely did not. Watch it again. Zain shelfs the foot on his left hip then shifts his weight BACK and pauses. Then Yianni pushes off his left foot to initiate the roll. There was little to no forward pressure into Yianni at the time of the roll. The roll was against Zain's momentum not with it.

Again, you've constructed a definition to fit the conclusion you want, and that definition essentially eliminates all counter exposures from scoring.

Not sure what you are seeing , I can plainly see Zain lift the leg creating the move  and then I can clearly see yanni try to counter zains move and  in desperation plants his foot making  it look like it was his move to the untrained eye.  A slick move that the judges saw right thru.

Yanni was ahead in the match and had no reason to initiate a move and was his only hope.  He was happy just to sit there and hang on until Zain tried flipping him on his back.  

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3 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Not exactly. What I am saying is that Zain initiated the action and that he was the wrestler who took the risk to score. It was him, not yianni, who initiated.

so it should have been 2-2, b/c there are Many many 4-2 calls off a blast double. including one in this bout.

i would say the blast double is the initiating action.

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24 minutes ago, Mphillips said:

Everyone has it figured out now, two days later and hundreds of video reviews.  Great job.  

Could you prepare a dumbed-down executive summary for me?   I honestly can not follow this discussion.

For sure the rule is too complex to be good for the sport.
Any rule that allows a challenge after 50 seconds of wrestling is nutty.

 

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7 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Calls go against wrestlers I like all the time. Part of this sport, or any sport.

you dont see this is a bit different?

allowing time to run out... before changing the score? 

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22 minutes ago, qc8223 said:

Lifting the leg does help Yianni because it caused a positional mistake for Zain, but that's literally the nature of the sport. Opponent makes a momentary mistake and I capitalize. And it clearly doesn't happen when Zain lifts the leg. He shelfs the foot on his hip then shifts his weight back to fix the positional error. Yianni takes advantage of the positional error. Yianni's move. Again, Zain was not pressuring into Yianni when the roll starts. He's lowering his hips.

Zain is pushing off his left foot to initiate that move.

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35 minutes ago, Katie said:

But that’s not how the rules work (as I understand them).

A defensive wrestler must stop the offensive wrestler’s hold before he can score. In practice stopping a hold includes redirecting it.

In this case, Yianni does not stop or redirect Zain’s hold. He merely goes from resisting it to rolling with it. You can even see in the video that he initiates the roll at the same moment Zain lifts his right leg up. 

IMO, Yianni did not score. 

The problem is that you clearly don't understand how FS is scored.  It should have been 2 Yianni based on Yianni clearly taking Zain through - I still have a hard time believing that the judges could get that call so wrong.  I would like to know if they had the same view that is available for all of us to see on this board.  If they were looking at a different angle of the action that might explain the decision.  Is it possible to post the actual video that the judges saw when revieing this?

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16 minutes ago, tbert said:

Not sure what you are seeing , I can plainly see Zain lift the leg creating the move  and then I can clearly see yanni try to counter zains move and  in desperation plants his foot making  it look like it was his move to the untrained eye.  A slick move that the judges saw right thru.

Yanni was ahead in the match and had no reason to initiate a move and was his only hope.  He was happy just to sit there and hang on until Zain tried flipping him on his back.  

You can only say this if you've never seen Yianni wrestle. He always tries to score in his best position. And his foot was planted the whole time. It wasn't some magic trick. It's the technique he uses every match. Was Zain's back exposed to the mat? Clearly yes. Was his intention to expose his own back to the mat? Clearly not. Yianni gets 2. I think 2-2 was probably the correct call.

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14 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

How will you react when you learn the protest has failed?

Considering the protest has nothing to do with the actual call, it will mean nothing. The protest is only about whether they were allowed to look at the exchange in the first place. Clearly, you're locked in to this situation.

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4 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

How will you react when you learn the protest has failed?

I fully expect the protest to fail - that won't change the facts that 1) Yianni clearly initiated the move and it should have been scored 2 blue - and 2) the brick should have been summarily rejected and no review should have been done of a scoring move which happened 42 seconds earlier and had scores posted at least 30 seconds earlier - 

If the protest is successful I expect it will be won on the 2nd point - They won't overturn the judges interpretation but they might decide that the judges had no right to review that sequence.

I am guessing that you have never wrestled FS - I like both guys and think they can both succeed at the worlds.  I just think this is an easy call and obvious from having wrestled FS, coached it and watched a lot of it both here in the US and internationally.  I would guess that you show that clip to people who are familiar with FS scoring and over 90% would agree that Yianni scored there. .

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21 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Yianni does not push off that left instep. He does not even have his foot planted. 

Lol, now you're just trolling. What you said is the equivalent of saying the sky isn't blue.

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25 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Not exactly. What I am saying is that Zain initiated the action and that he was the wrestler who took the risk to score. It was him, not yianni, who initiated.

Okay, so under that logic, there can be no counter exposures. Glad to know you understand freestyle scoring. Dake's chest lock against Takatani shouldn't count because Takatani took the risk by attacking, so he initiated.

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Just now, qc8223 said:

Lol, now you're just trolling. What you said is the equivalent of saying the sky isn't blue.

You see what you want to see as much as anyone else. 

The ruling was made after careful review of the video. My take is in line with theirs. You can go against the grain. Doesn't make you right or my take wrong. It is just opinion. 

 

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1 minute ago, qc8223 said:

Okay, so under that logic, there can be no counter exposures. Glad to know you understand freestyle scoring. Dake's chest lock against Takatani shouldn't count because Takatani took the risk by attacking, so he initiated.

Of course there can be counters. Why make some extreme statement like that when it doesn't help your cause? 

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7 minutes ago, qc8223 said:

You can only say this if you've never seen Yianni wrestle. He always tries to score in his best position. And his foot was planted the whole time. It wasn't some magic trick. It's the technique he uses every match. Was Zain's back exposed to the mat? Clearly yes. Was his intention to expose his own back to the mat? Clearly not. Yianni gets 2. I think 2-2 was probably the correct call.

I can some what agree, very talented wrestler...extremely Dakeish,  but where is the stoppage of initial move before the counter roll thru...not there

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1 minute ago, TBar1977 said:

Of course there can be counters. Why make some extreme statement like that when it doesn't help your cause? 

I was making fun of you. You defined them out of existence.

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Just now, tbert said:

I can some what agree, very talented wrestler...extremely Dakeish,  but where is the stoppage of initial move before the counter roll thru...not there

Only if you close your eyes during the 23 seconds of them being stuck in a crackdown, sure.

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