The call

[TBar1977 3,452]

7 minutes ago, npope said:

The fact that we, as reasonably knowledgeable fans of the sport, can have ten pages of debate as to the allocation of points reveals the reasons why this sport is dying a slow death. Simply ridiculous - period.

If you wish to hasten that slow death, taking away a world team spot or changing the outcome of that match will do the trick.

[GockeS 273]

did 2000 kill it? 

[Sstern 57]

2 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

If you wish to hasten that slow death, taking away a world team spot or changing the outcome of that match will do the trick.

Truly, don’t such an unmitigated shill for PSU that you seem like a jerk.  I like Zain and rooted for him but that was a terrible turn of events.   The right thing if you reverse the call is to resume the match 45 seconds earlier.

And Cael was 40 seconds too late throwing the brick under the rules.

[GockeS 273]

14 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

If you wish to hasten that slow death, taking away a world team spot or changing the outcome of that match will do the trick.

so it's already dead?

b/c the outcome of that match was changed.

[TBar1977 3,452]

7 minutes ago, GockeS said:

so it's already dead?

b/c the outcome of that match was changed.

The score was changed, not the outcome. The change corrected an incorrect score, resulting in the correct result. 

Your lobbying effort will be lauded in Koll' s next newsletter. 

[GockeS 273]

no, the outcome was changed.

[tbert 560]

27 minutes ago, Sstern said:

Truly, don’t such an unmitigated shill for PSU that you seem like a jerk.  I like Zain and rooted for him but that was a terrible turn of events.   The right thing if you reverse the call is to resume the match 45 seconds earlier.

And Cael was 40 seconds too late throwing the brick under the rules.

No, we are under freestyle rules.  Baseball and softball have similarity but use different rules.

[TBar1977 3,452]

31 minutes ago, Sstern said:

Truly, don’t such an unmitigated shill for PSU that you seem like a jerk.  I like Zain and rooted for him but that was a terrible turn of events.   The right thing if you reverse the call is to resume the match 45 seconds earlier.

And Cael was 40 seconds too late throwing the brick under the rules.

Look, you may not like how the match unfolded. Neither do I. We would all like an unquestionable outcome. But that did not occur, so we have to deal with what happened.

Resuming the match with 45 seconds left will not happen. There is no bad time rule like in folk style.

[TBar1977 3,452]

11 minutes ago, GockeS said:

no, the outcome was changed.

So the match ended with Yianni having his hand raised? Then after he walked off the mat they later informed him and Koll they were reversing the outcome? 

This happened? 

I could have sworn they raised Zain's hand. 

Edited June 12, 2019 by TBar1977

[Katie 629]

Of all the things I know, the thing I know the hardest is that Zain won that match. It’s time to move on.

[GockeS 273]

3 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

So the match ended with Yianni having his hand raised? Then after he walked off the mat they later informed him and Koll they were reversing the outcome? 

This happened? 

I could have sworn they raised Zain's hand. 

when the whistle blew, every sane fan thought that Yanni had won, and was looking forward to round three.

[TBar1977 3,452]

17 minutes ago, GockeS said:

when the whistle blew, every sane fan thought that Yanni had won, and was looking forward to round three.

This is what wrestling needs going forward, the "every sane fan according to gocke" standard. That will improve the sport for sure.

Edited June 12, 2019 by TBar1977

[scribe 1,655]

Even insane fans knew Yianni won (they just struggle to admit it)

[GockeS 273]

im betting even Tbar thought yanni won, no matter which category he falls under.

[GockeS 273]

39 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

This is what wrestling needs going forward, the "every sane fan according to gocke" standard. That will improve the sport for sure.

says the one who presumptuously sets the standard for almost everything else...

[GockeS 273]

i would love to go back and read Tbar's implosion after Taylor lost to Cox.

im betting we would see some real insanity.

[DoubleHalf 20]

9 minutes ago, GockeS said:

i would love to go back and read Tbar's implosion after Taylor lost to Cox.

im betting we would see some real insanity.

hahah

[GockeS 273]

it seems we keep saying the same things...

FULLNELSON posted this

Posted April 30, 2017

 After watching some of the matches from the Open, I grieve at how the subjectivity is ruining the sport. The subjectivity in the shot clock, the caution and 2, and the correct throw interpretations are incredibly inconsistent. Then you throw in interpretations of finger fighting, hands to the face, and 'not engaging' calls (I know it's the caution and 2 scenario), coupled with refs that are either bias or incompetent, or both.

Examples-

 Retherford and Oliver (worst officiating in years, at least on US soil), Retherford held the center of the mat the whole time, hands in the face call (not nearly as egregious as Burroughs to Dake), then the bogus correct throw call. Oliver did so little, not even close to scoring, but wins on 2 undeserving calls based on subjectivity.

 Look at the last 20 seconds of Rey vs Gwiz, and tell me that Gwiz is disengaging any more than Burroughs did on last 20 of the Dake match. Dake's put on the clock 2x to Burroughs 0, with absolutely no clear reason why; neither was taking the risk, plus JB got away with a ton of face jabs and finger fight infractions.

 Incidentally, JO has just been added to my hope-he-never-wins-again list for the way he reacted after being literally given the match over Retherford, he's the antithesis of humility.

[TBar1977 3,452]

18 minutes ago, GockeS said:

i would love to go back and read Tbar's implosion after Taylor lost to Cox.

im betting we would see some real insanity.

You should go find those posts. Some good slip n slide imagery in there. 

[GockeS 273]

27 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

You should go find those posts. Some good slip n slide imagery in there. 

funny, i thought both wrestlers had to wrestle in the slop...not just one

[Regulator 14]

6 hours ago, wrestlingnerd said:

By far the best footage of the sequence is Flo's. They really did an outstanding job of capturing every nuance and detail in this clip which shows the best possible angle to evaluate the sequence in high-definition slow motion: https://www.flowrestling.org/video/6516970-yianni-zain-scramble-sequence-hi-def

A few key observations:

1. Zain plants his foot not to initiate a hip-over or roll-through for exposure, but rather, to shelf the leg so that he can readjust his grip on the leg. He literally gives up the grip on the leg as Yianni initiates the move to expose Zain. If that is not the clearest sign of whose move it is, I really don't know what to say other than the good old "have you even wrestled??". He doesn't regain a grip on the leg until his legs go limp and straighten out to counter the momentum that ultimately flips him over for the exposure.

2. Importantly, as he his shelfing the leg and gives up his grip to try to reposition himself, a clear sign that whatever move he had initiated had been neutralized (for 15-20 seconds, no less), he has NO grip on the leg. The hand in the crackdown position was literally on the mat.

In response to “have you even wrestled??” 

Yes a state champ and above .500 Big ten wrestler(mostly as a reserve though)

 

I did this situation today with me as Yianni(and my left leg bent back) I had zero power to pull someone over. I recommend putting yourself in Yianni’s position and feeling it. The other person was very easily able to create the move by pushing off with the left leg and hooking my heel. 

[TBar1977 3,452]

20 minutes ago, GockeS said:

funny, i thought both wrestlers had to wrestle in the slop...not just one

You going to go find those posts? I would like to see the slip-n-slide images I picked out. 

[wrestlingnerd 2,528]

30 minutes ago, Regulator said:

I did this situation today with me as Yianni(and my left leg bent back) I had zero power to pull someone over. I recommend putting yourself in Yianni’s position and feeling it. The other person was very easily able to create the move by pushing off with the left leg and hooking my heel. 

I just have to laugh at this. Because you couldn't do the move this week when you're "old, fat, and happy", it can't be done by a wrestler with a level of flexibility and skill that you never even sniffed while at your competitive peak years ago (no offense, same could be said about most vis a vis Yianni)? 

And yet the other guy (Yianni-caliber, I'm sure) could easily replicate what Zain purportedly did, even with no grip on the leg by either hand? You don't think that maybe Yianni might be a little tougher to do it on (especially with no hands on the leg) than you in your living room?

Duly noted.

Edited June 12, 2019 by wrestlingnerd

[Regulator 14]

4 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

I just have to laugh at this. Because you couldn't do the move, it can't be done by a wrestler who achieved a level of flexibility and skill that you never even sniffed (no offense, same could be said about most vis a vis Yianni)? 

And yet you could easily replicate what Zain purportedly did, even with no grip on the leg by either hand?

Duly noted.

You need to chill, where did I say it can’t be done? You are having an argument with stuff I didn’t even say. I said I tried it and I recommend you try it. I’m sorry if you are so one sided you can’t have a conversation. 

[wrestlingnerd 2,528]

I did say "no offense." I just think it's a funny thing to say as a counterargument. To be honest, I did try it too. Since you seem to be level-headed, do me a favor and go watch the Flo clip I posted (unfortunately, you have to be a Pro subscriber). Watch Zain's hands as I noted in the slow-mo sequence. I'd LOVE to see you try to replicate the move with hands in those positions.