The call

[wrestlingnerd 2,593]

58 minutes ago, Katie said:

So when Dake traps an offensive wrestler’s arms and head, scoots his hips in, lifts the guy off the mat and launches him, he’s not stopping or redirecting the offensive wrestler’s original hold? Are you serious?

You don’t understand the rules and conveniently ignored the other examples. 

[GockeS 403]

36 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

How will you react when you learn the protest has failed?

it wont be a surprise.

but it wont be b/c they look at video.

b/c i doubt they look at the video at all.

[TBar1977 3,841]

17 minutes ago, qc8223 said:

I was making fun of you. You defined them out of existence.

That is stupid. I did no such thing. Letting your emotions dictate what you write isn't helping you at all.

[TBar1977 3,841]

18 minutes ago, qc8223 said:

Only if you close your eyes during the 23 seconds of them being stuck in a crackdown, sure.

Stuck. Just lol now. Too much.

[qc8223 327]

2 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

That is stupid. I did no such thing. Letting your emotions dictate what you write isn't helping you at all.

There was no emotion in that. You said Zain scored because he initiated the leg attack. If you extend that logic, it would mean no counter exposures because the offensive guy took the risk not the guy who did the exposing. That's a bad understanding of the rules.

[GockeS 403]

so Tbar is saying it should have been 4-0 zain at the beginning, b/c zain took the shot.

interesting.

[qc8223 327]

2 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Stuck. Just lol now. Too much.

They weren't frozen, but there was little improvement. It was a back and forth exchange where both of them improved position, forcing the other to react. Yianni would beat Zain's shoulder and Zain would readjust and again and again. Zain first shelves the foot on his hip at 1:00. The exposure doesn't occur until :43. That's 17 seconds of no significant improvement. I can break it down second by second for you if you need help understanding.

[qc8223 327]

2 minutes ago, GockeS said:

so Tbar is saying it should have been 4-0 zain at the beginning, b/c zain took the shot.

interesting.

Yes that's exactly what he's saying. This is what happens when you argue yourself into a corner without maintaining consistent logic. His initial argument hinged on Yianni being planted on the inside of his foot (which ironically shows Yianni was in good position to drive), then he argued Zain initiated the roll, then he argued that Yianni wasn't planted at all (what happened to the whole inside thing?), and now Zain scores because he took the initial risk 23 seconds before the actual exchange.

Edited June 10, 2019 by qc8223

[tbert 560]

8 minutes ago, qc8223 said:

Yes that's exactly what he's saying. This is what happens when you argue yourself into a corner without maintaining consistent logic. His initial argument hinged on Yianni being planted on the inside of his foot (which ironically shows Yianni was in good position to drive), then he argued Zain initiated the roll, then he argued that Yianni wasn't planted at all (what happened to the whole inside thing?), and now Zain scores because he took the initial risk 23 seconds before the actual exchange.

I agree with TBar,  4-0.  Possibly 6-0 if scored anywhere other than US.  Best case scenario would be 4-2 

[GockeS 403]

wow.

stop psuing all over this.

[Mphillips 766]

1 hour ago, Full Nelson said:

Could you prepare a dumbed-down executive summary for me?   I honestly can not follow this discussion.

For sure the rule is too complex to be good for the sport.
Any rule that allows a challenge after 50 seconds of wrestling is nutty.

 

Why are you asking me?  There are obviously plenty of world class officials in this thread.

[tbert 560]

9 minutes ago, GockeS said:

wow.

stop psuing all over this.

Not PSU fan.

I am, however proud to admit to being  a diehard RobKoll hater.

I actually wanted Yanni to win.

[DoubleHalf 48]

I actually had a friendly wager with a friend and my money was on Zain, (needless to say the money is in escrow until the protest is over.) 

That being said, after watching that clip probably 30 times, what ultimately sold it for me that it may have been Yianni initiating was when Zain dropped his hand down to stop momentum. If Zain is trying to initiate, I don't think he would counterbalance his forward momentum with the hand dropping to the mat. Not for nothing but one other observation I made was how they finished the position where it seemed Yianni coming up on top and continuing to wrestle while Zain was hanging on. 

Anyhow, I still hope I get my money...

[qc8223 327]

18 minutes ago, tbert said:

I agree with TBar,  4-0.  Possibly 6-0 if scored anywhere other than US.  Best case scenario would be 4-2 

4-2 correct call. TBar would probably score it 6-0, but the second exposure was definitely Yianni. I'd go 4-0 Zain on the first because Yianni didn't stop his move or change direction then recovers and gets the exposure on the second roll through. The problem is applying the logic of 4-0 in the first exchange to the later exchange where it doesn't apply. 

[qc8223 327]

11 minutes ago, Mphillips said:

Why are you asking me?  There are obviously plenty of world class officials in this thread.

I love when people self-righteously criticize people for discussing on message boards. Why are you even here if you don't want to debate the issue? 

I have nothing against anybody I'm arguing with. We disagree on the call and want to discuss and present our positions and that's what this board is for. Why else would we be here if it not to discuss wrestling content?

[tbert 560]

10 minutes ago, qc8223 said:

4-2 correct call. TBar would probably score it 6-0, but the second exposure was definitely Yianni. I'd go 4-0 Zain on the first because Yianni didn't stop his move or change direction then recovers and gets the exposure on the second roll through. The problem is applying the logic of 4-0 in the first exchange to the later exchange where it doesn't apply. 

I can agree with that.  Possibly 4-2.  Not 4-4.

[Mphillips 766]

13 minutes ago, qc8223 said:

I love when people self-righteously criticize people for discussing on message boards. Why are you even here if you don't want to debate the issue? 

I have nothing against anybody I'm arguing with. We disagree on the call and want to discuss and present our positions and that's what this board is for. Why else would we be here if it not to discuss wrestling content?

Who are you talking to?  I criticized no one.  Seems to me you are the one criticizing a post on a message board.  I'm a lot of things, "self-righteous" isn't one of them.  

[Katie 731]

At the end of the day, I think it’s obvious that Yianni did not score in that exchange. 

Now we can retire this thread and move on.

[GockeS 403]

39 minutes ago, Mphillips said:

Who are you talking to?  I criticized no one.  Seems to me you are the one criticizing a post on a message board.  I'm a lot of things, "self-righteous" isn't one of them.  

so the sub 'tweet' about the world class officials wasn't a critique of others? 

LOL

[GockeS 403]

24 minutes ago, Katie said:

At the end of the day, I think it’s obvious that Yianni did not score in that exchange. 

Now we can retire this thread and move on.

ok scribe

[scribe 1,655]

All Yianni. The guy doesn’t scramble. He defends and turns his opponent. 

[Mphillips 766]

16 minutes ago, GockeS said:

so the sub 'tweet' about the world class officials wasn't a critique of others? 

LOL

Fair enough. 

Edited June 10, 2019 by Mphillips

[TBar1977 3,841]

2 hours ago, GockeS said:

wow.

stop psuing all over this.

That is weak sauce. And I am still waiting for Gianni to initiate the final sequence. Oops, too late. Match over and Zain still won because he was the aggressor, he initiated, he took the risk.

[JeanGuy 102]

What I find most interesting about this thread is that armchair referees disagrees with the actual match officials. 

Don't you think there is a chance that the referees might be interpreting the RULES correctly? 

[TBar1977 3,841]

31 minutes ago, JeanGuy said:

What I find most interesting about this thread is that armchair referees disagrees with the actual match officials. 

Don't you think there is a chance that the referees might be interpreting the RULES correctly? 

A novel but true and correct concept.