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3 minutes ago, GockeS said:

this is exactly my point. the REFS, experts as we have learned, the 3 best in our country, did not follow protocol.

if none of them agreed, there should have been no points? am i correct in saying that?

No what was supposed to happen was the chair was supposed to call a conference to discuss the error and didn't and they put 2 and 2 on the board which was wrong.During the conference they would've discussed the situation to see if they could agree on points.Since that didn't happen and the points went on the board you can throw the brick anytime the scoreboard is wrong to question the score.Since that happened Tucci had to rescore the entire sequence because it was 1 big scramble.If the chair called the conference and they agreed on points Cody could still throw the block to challenge.So the end result would've been the same Tucci would be rescoring the last minute regardless 

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2 minutes ago, GockeS said:

this is exactly my point. the REFS, experts as we have learned, the 3 best in our country, did not follow protocol.

if none of them agreed, there should have been no points? am i correct in saying that?

No you really are not correct in saying that.  I was also incensed over this mess.  But what appears to have happened is that after the brick was thrown the 3 officials realized that they had screwed up 43 seconds earlier when they didn't conference to decide the proper scoring on the sequence in question.  Therefore they conferenced then and came to a decision.  You can think it was the wrong decision (as I do) but at least I now understand how this came to pass.

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2 minutes ago, justafan said:

No what was supposed to happen was the chair was supposed to call a conference to discuss the error and didn't and they put 2 and 2 on the board which was wrong.During the conference they would've discussed the situation to see if they could agree on points.Since that didn't happen and the points went on the board you can throw the brick anytime the scoreboard is wrong to question the score.Since that happened Tucci had to rescore the entire sequence because it was 1 big scramble.If the chair called the conference and they agreed on points Cody could still throw the block to challenge.So the end result would've been the same Tucci would be rescoring the last minute regardless 

but im saying there would be time to wrestle the rest of the match... with the correct score... 

i know some people dont think so, but wrestlers compete with different strategy based on time and score of the match.

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12 hours ago, Regulator said:

When I watched the first angle I thought it was Yianni’s move. But from this angle it appears to me Zain pushes with his left foot and he regrabs the heel to initiate the move. Yianni’s left foot and knee don’t look to be in position to push off of. At least not for a normal human ( which Yianni may not be). But it does appear Yianni rolls Zain through to me also. So I don’t know the rules well enough. Looks like 2 & 2 to me. But I could see 2-0 Zain. 

https://twitter.com/sockobuw/status/1137537809072492544?s=21

 

That video is great. In addition to watching Zain's left leg push off, watch his left forearm immediately preceeding the left leg push off. He uses that left forearm as a lever to start the whole roll thru. Zain would have known that if he did the following three things that Yianni (and himself) would both have to roll over. It would expose both of them, but it would have been his move. 

Step 1 - Left forearm cranks the leg higher and further backwards into the direction of the roll

Step 2 - this is the left foot pushing off the ground and is in concert with Step 1.

Step 3 - Full body weight committed in the direction of the iniated roll thru

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3 minutes ago, lu1979 said:

No you really are not correct in saying that.  I was also incensed over this mess.  But what appears to have happened is that after the brick was thrown the 3 officials realized that they had screwed up 43 seconds earlier when they didn't conference to decide the proper scoring on the sequence in question.  Therefore they conferenced then and came to a decision.  You can think it was the wrong decision (as I do) but at least I now understand how this came to pass.

this is what im saying.

the refs screwed it up.

bad time has to be put in to the rules.

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11 minutes ago, GockeS said:

this is exactly my point. the REFS, experts as we have learned, the 3 best in our country, did not follow protocol.

if none of them agreed, there should have been no points? am i correct in saying that?

No, you are not correct on that. The sequence will be reviewed by the committee in such a case of total disagreement. You can't ignore what happened. This is why the committee exists. 

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2 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

That video is great. In addition to watching Zain's left leg push off, watch his left forearm immediately preceeding the left leg push off. He uses that left forearm as a lever to start the whole roll thru. Zain would have known that if he did the following three things that Yianni (and himself) would both have to roll over. It would expose both of them, but it would have been his move. 

Step 1 - Left forearm cranks the leg higher and further backwards into the direction of the roll

Step 2 - this is the left foot pushing off the ground and is in concert with Step 1.

Step 3 - Full body weight committed in the direction of the iniated roll thru

agreed. easy to see from this

nothing to be done now, except change the rules and add bad time to prevent future wrestlers from suffering from bad procedures.

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2 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

No, you are not correct on that. The sequence will be reviewed by the committee in such a case of total disagreement. You can't ignore what happened. This is why the committee exists. 

yet they did ignore it until the end of the match.

this is the problem that needs to be fixed.

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6 minutes ago, justafan said:

My first reaction was Yianni got screwed big time I was like wtf this is BS you can't go back that far.Now keep in mind I didn't care who won just like watching them scrap.After I cooled off and about 3 hours later I watched it again and was like wow you were so wrong that was 1 big scramble and at no time could you've stopped the match.So the whole last minute has to be rescored.Im not into how they scored the last minute that will never change.Im into did they follow procedure and the answer is yes.NFL playoffs this year the wrong team won and the league admitted it but didn't change the call because it was  a judgement call not a procedure error.

I think you are a little off here.  In FS the 5 seconds for the brick does apply and a challenge would be rejected to review action that happened 43 seconds earlier.  In this case the officials realized that they had violated the rules when they posted the 2 blue 2 red score.  The rules specifically say that if the ref & judge disagree the mat official has to pick one or the other or they have to conference and decide the proper score.  That is why they went back and reviewed the sequence again. 

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1 minute ago, GockeS said:

but im saying there would be time to wrestle the rest of the match... with the correct score... 

i know some people dont think so, but wrestlers compete with different strategy based on time and score of the match.

Freestyle doesn't work like that.They wrestled the clock out.And not sure how much wrestling you've done but in a 1 min long scramble neither guy is thinking strategy at that point.They wrestled the 1 min scramble all you do is rescore it and the match is over.It happens way more then people think.It happens probably 20 times at Fargo and that could be generous.Situtions happen and go to the review and comeback and review has it 6-2 instead of 4-2 and the guy was up 6 and the match is over by tech

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19 minutes ago, GockeS said:

 

interesting! thanks!

it does look more like it.

now if only the brick had been thrown at the right time.

this has been my argument from the start. if the challenge happens at the right time, yanni has a chance to wrestle and change the outcome. Bad time needs to be added into the rules.

its almost like waiting until the week after WTT to announce your aren't wrestling, and screwing over the competition.

yes, i know.. this thread and recent events have made me begin to hate PSU. which i haven't before now.

who am i kidding i can't root against these guys.

They don't stop the clock due to the brick toss, and they don't add time in freestyle. The timing of the brick too is meaningless here. 

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9 minutes ago, justafan said:

No what was supposed to happen was the chair was supposed to call a conference to discuss the error and didn't and they put 2 and 2 on the board which was wrong.During the conference they would've discussed the situation to see if they could agree on points.Since that didn't happen and the points went on the board you can throw the brick anytime the scoreboard is wrong to question the score.Since that happened Tucci had to rescore the entire sequence because it was 1 big scramble.If the chair called the conference and they agreed on points Cody could still throw the block to challenge.So the end result would've been the same Tucci would be rescoring the last minute regardless 

That is exactly right

 

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5 minutes ago, lu1979 said:

I think you are a little off here.  In FS the 5 seconds for the brick does apply and a challenge would be rejected to review action that happened 43 seconds earlier.  In this case the officials realized that they had violated the rules when they posted the 2 blue 2 red score.  The rules specifically say that if the ref & judge disagree the mat official has to pick one or the other or they have to conference and decide the proper score.  That is why they went back and reviewed the sequence again. 

I forgot to put it has to be rescored due to the scoring error thats my fault I will edit it good catch.Glad to see someone else is understanding this whole thing

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1 minute ago, justafan said:

I forgot to put it has to be rescored due to the scoring error thats my fault I will edit it good catch.Glad to see someone else is understanding this whole thing

I am glad I am understanding what happened too.  I was upset over what seemed to be a complete disregard of the 5 second rule and understanding what happened with the scoring SNAFU puts that to rest.  I do think this shows that the officials were just doing their best to get it right.  (that said I would have scored that sequence 2 blue, but see the grey there)

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50 minutes ago, GockeS said:

lol.

still not a fan of yanni. im a fan of doing things fairly.

read my first post in thread .

 

 

Doing things fairly?   The only fair way to be sure the correct wrestler won would be to review it.  They did.

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2 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

They don't stop the clock due to the brick toss, and they don't add time in freestyle. The timing of the brick too is meaningless here. 

this is what im saying... time to add a bad time rule.

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2 hours ago, GockeS said:

yet they did ignore it until the end of the match.

this is the problem that needs to be fixed.

Lol. They didn't "ignore" it, they waited until stoppage. There is a difference between the two. Geez, talking to you is like talking to a rock. 

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4 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Lol. They didn't "ignore" it, they waited until stoppage. There is a difference between the two. Geez, talking to you is like talking to a rock. 

ok, im iwth you on the stoppage. but  there is no bad time... how is that fair exactly? 

im ahead, im ahead, im ahead. oops. no you lost.

not, oops your behind. oops you LOST.

that's the part that isn't fair/right/judicious... insert adjective here.

 

i KNOW there is not a bad time rule in FS. im saying THAT needs to change.

Zain is the rep. he should be. but this is a problem that needs fixing.

 

Edited by GockeS

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1 minute ago, GockeS said:

ok, im iwth you on the stoppage. but  there is no bad time... how is that fair exactly? 

im ahead, im ahead, im ahead. oops. no you lost.

 

i KNOW there is not a bad time rule in FS. im saying THAT needs to change.

Zain is the rep. he should be. but this is a problem that needs fixing.

 

It isn't going to be adopted and I will explain to you why this is the case. The whole idea of wrestling is to force the wrestlers to actually wrestle. To engage. To add in a "bad time" rule would be an admission that wrestlers do in fact avoid wrestling i.e. attempting to improve when they are ahead. We all know that in practice they do this, but a bad time rule basically is tantamount to an admission of such. The powers that be in wrestling don't want to go there. 

This explanation has nothing to do with the Zain Yianni match, I'm just trying to help you better understand. 

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