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Jimmy Cinnabon

Is PSU the favorite next year now that Cassar and Rasheed are back?

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125 Teske/Matt Parker - NQ

133 RBY - mid-high AA

141 Lee - high AA

149 Verkleeren - NQ

157 Berge - R12

165 Joseph (Starroci RS) - finalist

174 Hall (Brooks RS) - finalist

184 Rasheed - finalist

197 Conel/Beard - low-mid AA

HWT Cassar (Nevills RS) - finalist

A conservative take is that PSU qualifies all 10 for nationals (first time in a while), has 7 AAs, 4 finalists and 2 champs.

Biggest questions are who mans 125 and 197 and if Verkleeren can get it done as a full time starter at 149.  Does this lineup have enough firepower in March to take out presumptive favorite Iowa?

Edited by Jimmy Cinnabon

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For kicks...Iowa's lineup:

125 Lee - champ

133 Desanto - high AA

141 Murin - low AA

149 Lugo - low AA

157 Young - R12

165 Marinelli - finalist

174 Kemerer - high AA

184 Wilke R12

197 Warner - mid AA

HWT Cassiopi - low AA

 

10 NQs, 8 AAs, 2 finalists and 1 champ.  A lot of fire power in that lineup...perhaps not as much bonus potential.

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10 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

125 Teske/Matt Parker - NQ

133 RBY - mid-high AA

141 Lee - high AA

149 Verkleeren - NQ

157 Berge - R12

165 Joseph (Starroci RS) - finalist

174 Hall (Brooks RS) - finalist

184 Rasheed - finalist

197 Conel/Beard - low-mid AA

HWT Cassar (Nevills RS) - finalist

A conservative take is that PSU qualifies all 10 for nationals (first time in a while), has 7 AAs, 4 finalists and 2 champs.

Biggest questions are who mans 125 and 197 and if Verkleeren can get it done as a full time starter at 149.  Does this lineup have enough firepower in March to take out presumptive favorite Iowa?

Are you saying Verk and Parker won’t make NCAA’s? Or that they won’t win a match there? 

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12 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

For kicks...Iowa's lineup:

125 Lee - champ

133 Desanto - high AA

141 Murin - low AA

149 Lugo - low AA

157 Young - R12

165 Marinelli - finalist

174 Kemerer - high AA

184 Wilke R12

197 Warner - mid AA

HWT Cassiopi - low AA

 

10 NQs, 8 AAs, 2 finalists and 1 champ.  A lot of fire power in that lineup...perhaps not as much bonus potential.

What in the world did Young do to your family?

 

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PSU now has 6-7 returning AAs (Konel being the question). Assuming no Konel, that means:

6 returning AAs including 4 potential champs

Out of the other 4 weights (125, 149, 157, 197)

125: #34 2018 recruit and had redshirt year

149: #20 2017 recruit, cadet world champion

157: #6 recruit 2017, Junior world bronze, NCAA qualifier, 

197: #11 recruit 2018

This doesn’t include Aaron Brooks, #2 recruit 2018 or Seth Nevills #22 2018. 

As an aside, the class of 2017 may end up being the best ever. 

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20 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

125 Teske/Matt Parker - NQ

133 RBY - mid-high AA

141 Lee - high AA

149 Verkleeren - NQ

157 Berge - R12

165 Joseph (Starroci RS) - finalist

174 Hall (Brooks RS) - finalist

184 Rasheed - finalist

197 Conel/Beard - low-mid AA

HWT Cassar (Nevills RS) - finalist

A conservative take is that PSU qualifies all 10 for nationals (first time in a while), has 7 AAs, 4 finalists and 2 champs.

Biggest questions are who mans 125 and 197 and if Verkleeren can get it done as a full time starter at 149.  Does this lineup have enough firepower in March to take out presumptive favorite Iowa?

Don't they now have the most points returning by a small margin?  If so, then by that measure I would say perhaps a slight favorite. Much different than last season when they were, by just about every measure, an overwhelming favorite.

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13 hours ago, LLB said:

Are you saying Verk and Parker won’t make NCAA’s? Or that they won’t win a match there? 

NQ = National Qualifier.

I also said: A conservative take is that PSU qualifies all 10 for nationals (first time in a while), has 7 AAs, 4 finalists and 2 champs.

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I still say if Iowa was not in a position to win it, PSU would throw in the towel with this lineup which could still be top 5.

125:  Teske

133:  ???

141:  ???

149:  Verkleeren

157:  Berge

165:  Manville

174:  ???

184:  Rasheed

197:  Conel

HWT:  Cassar

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On 6/11/2019 at 11:16 AM, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

For kicks...Iowa's lineup:

125 Lee - champ

133 Desanto - high AA

141 Murin - low AA

149 Lugo - low AA

157 Young - R12

165 Marinelli - finalist

174 Kemerer - high AA

184 Wilke R12

197 Warner - mid AA

HWT Cassiopi - low AA

 

10 NQs, 8 AAs, 2 finalists and 1 champ.  A lot of fire power in that lineup...perhaps not as much bonus bonus

I would put young at high all american, and murin rd 12

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6 hours ago, panewbie1 said:

Don't they now have the most points returning by a small margin?  If so, then by that measure I would say perhaps a slight favorite. Much different than last season when they were, by just about every measure, an overwhelming favorite.

Fair point. Worth noting that for weights without a returning AA, they have a high level recruit. They can even redshirt a guy like Mark Hall and still have a good shot at the title. 

Iowa in the other hand has a bunch of guys who could AA, but could also go out in R16 or R12. 141, 149, 184 and 285 are all in that category. Then you add in the risk at 165 (twice underperforming at NCAAs), 174 (two weights up after being severely injured), 197 which could end up scoring anywhere from 4-20 points...if I were an Iowa fan I’d be worried. 

Cornell I think is a legit dark horse here due to the high end fire power (125, 141, 184, and 197 could each score 20 points or more). They need a couple other guys to make the podium but they could very well break 100 points. 

 

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1 hour ago, Housebuye said:

Fair point. Worth noting that for weights without a returning AA, they have a high level recruit. They can even redshirt a guy like Mark Hall and still have a good shot at the title. 

Iowa in the other hand has a bunch of guys who could AA, but could also go out in R16 or R12. 141, 149, 184 and 285 are all in that category. Then you add in the risk at 165 (twice underperforming at NCAAs), 174 (two weights up after being severely injured), 197 which could end up scoring anywhere from 4-20 points...if I were an Iowa fan I’d be worried. 

Cornell I think is a legit dark horse here due to the high end fire power (125, 141, 184, and 197 could each score 20 points or more). They need a couple other guys to make the podium but they could very well break 100 points. 

 

I think it's a bit optimistic to assume Max Dean will score 20 points at NCAAs next year. He got super lucky this year with his draw/upsets elsewhere in the bracket. I'd put him more at #4 or #5 going into next year.

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1 hour ago, TobusRex said:

I think it's a bit optimistic to assume Max Dean will score 20 points at NCAAs next year. He got super lucky this year with his draw/upsets elsewhere in the bracket. I'd put him more at #4 or #5 going into next year.

You realize one of his draw/upsets was him beating the undefeated favorite to win it all?

 

edited to add:  in fact, the ONLY upset he benefited from was Bonaccorsi over Parker. 

Dean was the 5 seed. So he wrestled who we was supposed to the 1st round. Then beat the #12 seed(Wilcke), whom he was supposed to wrestle. Then had Nino instead of Emory. Then had to beat the #1 seed Martin. He would then lose to the 6seeded Foster in the finals. 

Edited by MSU158

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13 hours ago, TobusRex said:

I think it's a bit optimistic to assume Max Dean will score 20 points at NCAAs next year. He got super lucky this year with his draw/upsets elsewhere in the bracket. I'd put him more at #4 or #5 going into next year.

How did he get super lucky with draw/upsets elsewhere in the bracket?  He beat the very heavy favorite in the semis.  There was no one else close to Martin going in to that tournament. Foster's resume was as good as anyone's except Martin's & Parker. 184 really cleared out last year - 6 of 8 AAs graduated. Dean will start next year ranked 1st unless Zahid moves up then he will be ranked 2nd.  He will probablty be follwed in the preseason rankings by Geer, Rasheed, and Venz (that is the order I would go) 

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14 hours ago, MSU158 said:

You realize one of his draw/upsets was him beating the undefeated favorite to win it all?

 

edited to add:  in fact, the ONLY upset he benefited from was Bonaccorsi over Parker. 

Dean was the 5 seed. So he wrestled who we was supposed to the 1st round. Then beat the #12 seed(Wilcke), whom he was supposed to wrestle. Then had Nino instead of Emory. Then had to beat the #1 seed Martin. He would then lose to the 6seeded Foster in the finals. 

Yeah, forgot about the win over Martin, whom I had pegged as a "can't miss" champ last year! I did remember Dean losing to Foster (#6) in the finals.

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1 hour ago, lu1979 said:

How did he get super lucky with draw/upsets elsewhere in the bracket?  He beat the very heavy favorite in the semis.  There was no one else close to Martin going in to that tournament. Foster's resume was as good as anyone's except Martin's & Parker. 184 really cleared out last year - 6 of 8 AAs graduated. Dean will start next year ranked 1st unless Zahid moves up then he will be ranked 2nd.  He will probablty be follwed in the preseason rankings by Geer, Rasheed, and Venz (that is the order I would go) 

Yeah, forgot about the Martin upset. I looked at the bracket after seeing you and MSU158's comments. I think because the #2 and #3 seeds were both out by the end of quarterfinals that I just kinda chalked that weightclass up to "flukey" last year. Kinda like that year/weight when Kindig got 2nd.

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18 hours ago, TobusRex said:

I think it's a bit optimistic to assume Max Dean will score 20 points at NCAAs next year. He got super lucky this year with his draw/upsets elsewhere in the bracket. I'd put him more at #4 or #5 going into next year.

Yeah for sure. Not assuming that. Best case, but also a reasonable case. 

Worth noting that

1. He is on the U23 team, so he will get to train with different partners and coaches. This tends to help the young guys a lot. He wasn’t super high level in high school so he wasn’t traveling to the RTC all the time to train. 

2. Foster, Martin, Preisch, zavatsky, Parker and Ness graduated. Zahid may move up and a freshman like Hidlay could give him trouble, but the weight is far weaker this year than in the past 4 or 5 years. He can make the finals this year without a major upset if he is on the opposite side as Zahid. Other guys may be favorites over him, but not by a huge margin 

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For what is worth, I do not expect to see RBY at 133 this year.  He is currently weighing in at 143 and said that he is working on gaining weight.  My guess that if he does not red shirt this year (which he hinted at) is that we see him at 149. 

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