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The DECISION (yianni v retherford)

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2 hours ago, swoopdown said:

The optimal freestyle judge panel consists of 1) a mind reader to devine intent, 2) a physicist to differentiate continuous action and rest and 3) a poster from this forum to explain forevermore that the other two are wrong.

 

Sent from my moto e5 play using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

plus two more judges,   each with a stop watch watching different corners to insure the brick is thrown within the mandated 5 seconds.  A lot of times the replay may only show  when the brick lands on the mat,  but the rules clearly state "thrown"

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11 hours ago, Peso said:

We should be learning from this.  Improving our presentation and eliminating this situation totally as soon as possible..  Folkstyle has the advantage of control established before back points can be awarded.  I've watched the scoring in question and I tend to believe Yianni initiated that, but I admit I could not argue it was not Zain.  Just a few years ago we were about to be out of the Olympics.  We made the sport better and somehow stayed in the Olympics.  This is a fault in our sport.  This is a deal killer at so many levels.  We simply must have a sport where someone knows what the hell is going on.  If it takes days or weeks to interpret our own rules,  nobody wants that from the first time viewer through the lifelong fan.

The real issue is that there was no scoring issue and the match was over. How hard is it to kick that brick back to the NLWC?  Those are the rules.  No interpretation needed!

 

 

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5 hours ago, swoopdown said:

The optimal freestyle judge panel consists of 1) a mind reader to devine intent, 2) a physicist to differentiate continuous action and rest and 3) a poster from this forum to explain forevermore that the other two are wrong.

Sent from my moto e5 play using Tapatalk

 

You need two more things. Lawyers and Vodka. 

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11 hours ago, Peso said:

We should be learning from this.  Improving our presentation and eliminating this situation totally as soon as possible..  Folkstyle has the advantage of control established before back points can be awarded.  I've watched the scoring in question and I tend to believe Yianni initiated that, but I admit I could not argue it was not Zain.  Just a few years ago we were about to be out of the Olympics.  We made the sport better and somehow stayed in the Olympics.  This is a fault in our sport.  This is a deal killer at so many levels.  We simply must have a sport where someone knows what the hell is going on.  If it takes days or weeks to interpret our own rules,  nobody wants that from the first time viewer through the lifelong fan.

USA Wrestling or UWW should tell the entire wrestling community that whatever the ruling is on the mat and after all accepted challenges are reviewed (we have to allow for challenges) is final. What is happening here hurts the sport. 

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44 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

The real issue is that there was no scoring issue and the match was over. How hard is it to kick that brick back to the NLWC?  Those are the rules.  No interpretation needed!

Obviously Cody had an issue, otherwise he'd have not thrown the brick. If they agreed with your position they could have decided to not review, so the fact they did review indicates they thought there was an issue that required review, interpretation and resolution.

Edited by TBar1977

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1 minute ago, TBar1977 said:

Obviously Cody had an issue, otherwise he'd have not thrown the brick. If they agreed with your position they could have decided to not review, so the fact they did review indicates they thought there was an issue that required review, interpretation and resolution.

? He could have thrown that brick 45 seconds prior and then the outcome wouldn't be in question.  That risked a three point match and he was unwilling to do that.  The refs were not following the rules, so there will be arbitration.

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14 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

? He could have thrown that brick 45 seconds prior and then the outcome wouldn't be in question.  That risked a three point match and he was unwilling to do that.  The refs were not following the rules, so there will be arbitration.

They will go back to the officials who handled the match and it will all be deemed to be judgment calls. Also, the score could not have been 2-2 given how they arrived at 2-2, thus the review was going to happen anyway. We are beating this horse dead at this point. 

Edited by TBar1977

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50 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

USA Wrestling or UWW should tell the entire wrestling community that whatever the ruling is on the mat and after all accepted challenges are reviewed (we have to allow for challenges) is final. What is happening here hurts the sport. 

changing the score without redress hurts more.

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48 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Obviously Cody had an issue, otherwise he'd have not thrown the brick. If they agreed with your position they could have decided to not review, so the fact they did review indicates they thought there was an issue that required review, interpretation and resolution.

I think they waited on purpose. b/c they knew there would be no recourse for yanni.

just like they waited to announce for DT.

seeing a pattern here?

I can make **** up to, see? 

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2 hours ago, GockeS said:

I think they waited on purpose. b/c they knew there would be no recourse for yanni.

just like they waited to announce for DT.

seeing a pattern here?

I can make **** up to, see? 

Yeah, that was some wait for DT. Not. That is ridiculous. Bo Nickal was already sitting in the finals of Team Trials a weight class above and had no intention of moving down. The timing of that announcement becomes meaningless because of those facts. Stop with the tin foil hat conspiracy theories. 

Btw, did not Kyle Dake announce his injury status way later than taylor? Pretty sure he did. Nice try though on the tin foil hat conspiracy. 

Edited by TBar1977

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1 minute ago, ugarte said:

no idea why he'd prefer j'den to DT tbh

He knows how he matches up with Taylor.  If he knows he cant beat DT and he has never wrestled Cox, that is an easy decision. It is also an easy decision to pick wrestling a guy you teched at your natural weight vs up a weight against the reigning world champion. 

I feel like all this means he had no prior knowledge to DT forfeiting.  

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3 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

Obviously Cody had an issue, otherwise he'd have not thrown the brick. If they agreed with your position they could have decided to not review, so the fact they did review indicates they thought there was an issue that required review, interpretation and resolution.

This was against the rules. It isn’t Cody’s fault. The refs should’ve kicked the brick back like they did countless other times. 

 

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3 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

They will go back to the officials who handled the match and it will all be deemed to be judgment calls. Also, the score could not have been 2-2 given how they arrived at 2-2, thus the review was going to happen anyway. We are beating this horse dead at this point. 

It isn’t a judgement call. It is blatantly against the rules to revisit that sequence. 

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35 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

He knows how he matches up with Taylor.  If he knows he cant beat DT and he has never wrestled Cox, that is an easy decision. It is also an easy decision to pick wrestling a guy you teched at your natural weight vs up a weight against the reigning world champion. 

I feel like all this means he had no prior knowledge to DT forfeiting.  

At the time of the US Open, Taylor wasn't hurt! He got hurt at Beat the Streets, after Nickal chose to wrestle the US Open in Cox's weight class. Why would Nickal have been allowed to challenge Downey when they each won different weight classes at the US Open?

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You can watch these on youtube. 

I have it as follows:

1st match

Y              Z

2              0         1:21 (of youtube counter, not match time)

2              2         2:20 - 3:02   Where was Z's takedown.  I never saw it, they just gave it to him as he was on bottom fighting. 

should be 2-0

2              6          5:55   Z TD and Turn.   Legit.

Should be 2-4

4              6          7:10   Y TD  legit

should be 4-4

4              8           8:37 - Z TD   Again, I did not see it.  Where is the takedown?

should be 4-4

I see it as 1 st match for Y.

 

2nd Match

Y       Z  

4      0       1:14   Y with two turns.  I say the first was Z's the second was Y's.

should be 2-2

4      4       1:53   Where  did Z get 4 points from?  Never happened. 

should be 2-2

After this I lost focus and scored it myself.  So the rest is what it should be from my perspective

2      4      2:40   Z turn legit

4      4       4:04   Y TD

6      4        8:05    Y turn.   they scored this 2-2 but it was Y's turn all the way. 

That's it, 2nd Match for Y.

My opinion is that Y got robbed.  Pure and simple.  I think my scoring is pretty reasonable.  I scored it the way I saw it.  I was not scoring as a homer for Yianni.  I like him but I like Zain too.  Zain looked good.  Yianni won though.  I guess this will go to arbitration and beyond maybe.

mspart

 

 

Edited by mspart

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1 minute ago, Plasmodium said:

Wtt was after bts?

I guess that's right - he probably could have used the NCAA championship to chose his WTT weight class regardless of the US Open finish. That said, Nickal was at BtS, watching from matside. I think he knew as well as anyone else that Taylor was going to need surgery and wouldn't be at Final X. I hoped for the best but expected the worst.

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10 minutes ago, ugarte said:

At the time of the US Open, Taylor wasn't hurt! He got hurt at Beat the Streets, after Nickal chose to wrestle the US Open in Cox's weight class. Why would Nickal have been allowed to challenge Downey when they each won different weight classes at the US Open?

You are allowed to change weights once you qualify for WTT. Bo would’ve given up his bye, but he could’ve gone down to 86kg for trials

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nevermind - i see what you're saying but i'd have to rewatch to see the Zain TDs in the first match that you thought were bogus. Nobody else - including Yianni - seems to be contesting that scoring, though.

Edited by ugarte

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