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Pico TKO a few minutes ago

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2 minutes ago, Coach_J said:

JImmy Carr made an Olympic team at 16.  On course to win at least 2 Olympic medals, right?  Placed at NCAA once and pretty much was done.  Let's be careful about projecting what someone "would/could/should" have done.

The funny thing is I never projected anything. I just said that at 19 he was at Cejudo’s level at 19. Everything else is the other guys’ agenda arguments. 

I never said he would have won gold or would even be our rep if he came back. I just think he was that good, that young and had the potential to own 65kg for the foreseeable future. 

As a guy who wants the US to be the best I don’t see how it hurts to hope he comes back and proves to be at that level.....

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18 minutes ago, Frank_Rizzo said:

Pico and his team have attempted to put the cart before the horse at every stage of his sporting career.  It's a darn shame too, because a lot of talent is going down the tubes.  

His lack of success (so far) is one of the most puzzling things I've seen in some time.  I could come up with plenty of theories as to why things have repeatedly gone wrong for him, but I still have no idea why he can't put it together. The kid has immense talent and every physical gift imaginable.  By all accounts, and from some of the toughest guys in the world, he's a killer in the practice room.  

And who thought it was a good idea to follow up a 1st round KO loss by matching him up against a bigger, undefeated fighter with twice as many fights under his belt?  

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12 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

 

True, and Pico fans are doing it again in this very thread. The poor guy is destined to be the guy who never ascends to the top, but could have if things had just played out differently. In other words and to steal from another sport, a playground legend. 

Saying he’s a playground hero (or destined to be one) in wrestling is patently absurd. In MMA, yes...but not in wrestling. As far as I’m aware he’s lost matches to 2 people over the past 8 years. One to eventual Olympic champ Hasan Yazdani in the cadet world finals and the other to Molinaro in the best of 3 Olympic team trials final when Pico was 19 and not training full time for freestyle. 

Also I never said he would come back and start reeling off world titles...I just said I think he can get back to an elite level and be on Zain and Yianni’s level. I don’t really understand the argument that he can’t.

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I just watched the fight. Surprised there is even video of it that isn't blocked,  but there is.

Pico was on top of Borics for about 90% of the nearly two periods of time, but he has less offense from that position than even Phil Davis had early in his MMA career. Pico was winning easily just due to control, but he never came close to hurting Borics. Borics didn't even look slightly winded.  And then as soon as Borics got free the knee landed and out went the lights. 

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11 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

His lack of success (so far) is one of the most puzzling things I've seen in some time.  I could come up with plenty of theories as to why things have repeatedly gone wrong for him, but I still have no idea why he can't put it together. The kid has immense talent and every physical gift imaginable.  By all accounts, and from some of the toughest guys in the world, he's a killer in the practice room.  

And who thought it was a good idea to follow up a 1st round KO loss by matching him up against a bigger, undefeated fighter with twice as many fights under his belt?  

You're supposed to fight either other rookies or jobbers at the beginning of an MMA or boxing career. 

Pico's first fight was against a veteran from a higher weight class with an 8-2 record on a PPV card in Madison Square Garden.  He was set up to fail in that fight, and it took less than 30 seconds for him to do so.  Rather than learn from its mistakes, his team thought it prudent for him to come back from a first round TKO loss and fight a guy with a 12-0 record.  The result was equally as predictable.      

And while Pico has fought quality competition, only one of his opponents even has a Wikipedia page.  At the very least, his team is guilty of MMA malpractice.  At most, he doesn't have it in MMA.    

Edited by Frank_Rizzo

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1 hour ago, MDogg said:

Saying he’s a playground hero (or destined to be one) in wrestling is patently absurd. In MMA, yes...but not in wrestling. As far as I’m aware he’s lost matches to 2 people over the past 8 years. One to eventual Olympic champ Hasan Yazdani in the cadet world finals and the other to Molinaro in the best of 3 Olympic team trials final when Pico was 19 and not training full time for freestyle. 

Also I never said he would come back and start reeling off world titles...I just said I think he can get back to an elite level and be on Zain and Yianni’s level. I don’t really understand the argument that he can’t.

He lost to Dean Heil, Logan Stieber and Reece Humphrey too. Not sure about anyone else as he didn't wrestle in that many events. Great athlete, but a fact that he didn't beat the best world level wrestlers when he wrestled full time. I am just saying I doubt he'd beat the best world level wrestlers today because he is not really wrestling, he's an MMA guy. There is a difference. 

We will never know unless he tries to make a comeback, but its an insult to our world team reps to think an MMA guy with little true wrestling preparation would just walk into team trials and beat them. 

Edited by TBar1977

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4 minutes ago, Frank_Rizzo said:

And while Pico has fought quality competition, only one of his opponents even has a Wikipedia page.  At the very least, his team is guilty of MMA malpractice.  At most, he doesn't have it in MMA.    

I know... and it won't be much longer until Bellator cuts their losses on "Project Pico."

I'm not even sure what you do with him now.  It's a little late to just start feeding him cans.  

  

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30 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

The funny thing is I never projected anything. I just said that at 19 he was at Cejudo’s level at 19. Everything else is the other guys’ agenda arguments. 

I never said he would have won gold or would even be our rep if he came back. I just think he was that good, that young and had the potential to own 65kg for the foreseeable future. 

As a guy who wants the US to be the best I don’t see how it hurts to hope he comes back and proves to be at that level.....

My comment wasn't directed at you personally (didn't mention anyone by name) but to anyone who wants to imagine a trajectory for a promising young athlete.  Too many factors in play.  Jimmy Carr was the rage, a can't miss for the future.

I have no problem if Pico wants to drop the MMA thing and come back to wrestling--in fact, wish him the best of luck.  Just as transitioning from full-time wrestling to MMA is a huge adjustment (hence the need to bring a newbie up through the ranks with intelligence, which I don't think has happened with Pico), the adjustment from full-time MMA to wrestling would be equally challenging, particularly with Zain and Yanni hitting their prime and in full gear forward.  Best to him if he comes back.  Will be anything but smooth.

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29 minutes ago, Coach_J said:

My comment wasn't directed at you personally (didn't mention anyone by name) but to anyone who wants to imagine a trajectory for a promising young athlete.  Too many factors in play.  Jimmy Carr was the rage, a can't miss for the future.

I have no problem if Pico wants to drop the MMA thing and come back to wrestling--in fact, wish him the best of luck.  Just as transitioning from full-time wrestling to MMA is a huge adjustment (hence the need to bring a newbie up through the ranks with intelligence, which I don't think has happened with Pico), the adjustment from full-time MMA to wrestling would be equally challenging, particularly with Zain and Yanni hitting their prime and in full gear forward.  Best to him if he comes back.  Will be anything but smooth.

I knew that.  I just used your post to make that point.

I do agree with you that there is no surefire projection, although I DO believe he would have some Senior hardware if he stuck with wrestling.  Now,  I also agree that Pico likely wouldn't make a seamless transition back to wrestling.  I just truly believe he had the talent to be a force on the Senior Circuit and is young enough that he still could be.

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57 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

He lost to Dean Heil too. Not sure about anyone else as he didn't wrestle in that many events. Great athlete, but a fact that he didn't beat the best world level wrestlers when he wrestled full time. I am just saying I doubt he'd beat the best world level wrestlers today because he is not really wrestling, he's an MMA guy. There is a difference. 

We will never know unless he tries to make a comeback, but its an insult to our world team reps to think an MMA guy with little true wrestling preparation would just walk into team trials and beat them. 

Nobody said anything about him walking into the team trials “as is” and beating anybody. Everything I said was premised on him going back to focusing on wrestling full time and leaving MMA. If he continues to train full time or majority time for MMA and just enters high level tournaments on the side he’s not beating any of the elite guys. The fact he did beat some elite guys back in 2016 (at 19) without focusing full time on wrestling is evidence of how good he could be if he actually drops MMA and trains full time on wrestling.

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41 minutes ago, MDogg said:

Nobody said anything about him walking into the team trials “as is” and beating anybody. Everything I said was premised on him going back to focusing on wrestling full time and leaving MMA. If he continues to train full time or majority time for MMA and just enters high level tournaments on the side he’s not beating any of the elite guys. The fact he did beat some elite guys back in 2016 (at 19) without focusing full time on wrestling is evidence of how good he could be if he actually drops MMA and trains full time on wrestling.

Hearsay to be fair, but post number 2 in this thread states just that.

He told a friend of mine that he was training with Chamizo in Italy and he would have easily made the US world team this year.  Maybe he'll come back for next year's trials.  

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13 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Hearsay to be fair, but post number 2 in this thread states just that.

He told a friend of mine that he was training with Chamizo in Italy and he would have easily made the US world team this year.  Maybe he'll come back for next year's trials.  

That post has Pico himself saying that to an unnamed “friend” of a message board poster. An athlete having (over)confidence in himself is nothing new or noteworthy and doesn’t constitute “Pico fans doing it again on this very thread.”

Nobody would “easily” make the US world team at 65k this year. And again, I don’t think he has a real shot to make it in future years unless and until he were to drop MMA and focus on wrestling full time...which may never even happen.

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8 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

MDOGG, you did say that nobody said it. Pico himself said it. My comments are just the opposite pov to those comments. 

That’s a technicality to end all technicalities. I don’t want to argue semantics but Pico supposedly saying something to a 3rd party still doesn’t constitute “people on this thread...”

Every person who entered WTT likely told someone they were going to make the team. Doesn’t mean people on this thread are saying it.

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6 minutes ago, MDogg said:

That’s a technicality to end all technicalities. I don’t want to argue semantics but Pico supposedly saying something to a 3rd party still doesn’t constitute “people on this thread...”

Every person who entered WTT likely told someone they were going to make the team. Doesn’t mean people on this thread are saying it.

fair enough. I think we can both agree that if certain things were to happen in the future that perhaps, somehow, possibly, maybe he could find his way onto a team. Additionally, it will probably never happen. 

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1 minute ago, TBar1977 said:

fair enough. I think we can both agree that if certain things were to happen in the future that perhaps, somehow, possibly, maybe he could find his way onto a team. Additionally, it will probably never happen. 

Clever way to shift the focus from the fact you said people on this thread were saying things that nobody on this thread said. I’d probably do the same thing if I got caught making things up.

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On 6/14/2019 at 9:39 PM, TripNSweep said:

How does that make him sound bad?  He never lost to Retherford so he probably thinks that he would have been able to beat him for the world team spot.  He's wrestling with Chamizo so it isn't like he is training with nobodies.  

 

On 6/14/2019 at 9:19 PM, TripNSweep said:

He told a friend of mine that he was training with Chamizo in Italy and he would have easily made the US world team this year.  Maybe he'll come back for next year's trials.  

 

This in response to my saying he couldn't just flip the switch and win Trials...

On 6/15/2019 at 12:18 AM, MSU158 said:

Cejudo came back and almost did it. Pico was on that level in freestyle. He truly was.

 

18 hours ago, Mokoma said:

I believe Pico would handle Zain with ease today, and if he comes back will be US Olympic Rep.

 

1 hour ago, MDogg said:

Clever way to shift the focus from the fact you said people on this thread were saying things that nobody on this thread said. I’d probably do the same thing if I got caught making things up.

 

Yeah, the idea Pico can beat Zain today and/or make our team never even was implied in this thread. Try harder next time. 

Btw, MDOGG, had Pico not fought for Bellator this past weekend and instead trained the past month or two for World Team Trials in wrestling that he would have won that event? 

 

Edited by TBar1977

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25 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

 

 

 

This in response to my saying he couldn't just flip the switch and win Trials...

 

 

 

Yeah, the idea Pico can beat Zain today and/or make our team never even was implied in this thread. Try harder next time. 

 

There is a MAJOR difference between can, would and should.  Can he?  Of course he can.  Would he?  I wouldn't give great odds.  Should he?  Anyone that says that is biased and probably related to him.

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1 minute ago, MSU158 said:

There is a MAJOR difference between can, would and should.  Can he?  Of course he can.  Would he?  I wouldn't give great odds.  Should he?  Anyone that says that is biased and probably related to him.

Of course, but I am trying to explain not just my point of view, but why I posted it. Anything is possible, of course. Would he have won it this year? IMO, extremely unlikely. 

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6 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

Getting back to the subject of the thread, right now as it currently stands:

  1. Pico is an MMA Fighter with a Journeyman 4-3 record
  2. Pico has been knocked out 3 times in his brief MMA career. It appears he has a glass chin. 
  3. Pico has not wrestled competitively since when? 4 years ago? 

But Pico is good enough to win 65Kg or 70Kg right now!!!

Anyone want to buy that bridge over there? It's for sale!

Thank you. Some people, who are not trolling, think that he exists in a vacuum and will be just as good the day he walks on the mat as he was when he left. And no matter where he's at he's still behind Frank. Molinaro has been working on wrestling while Pico's been working on getting knocked out.

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57 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

 

 

 

This in response to my saying he couldn't just flip the switch and win Trials...

 

 

 

Yeah, the idea Pico can beat Zain today and/or make our team never even was implied in this thread. Try harder next time. 

Btw, MDOGG, had Pico not fought for Bellator this past weekend and instead trained the past month or two for World Team Trials in wrestling that he would have won that event? 

 

Only one of the posters you quoted actually makes the claim about Pico you’re purporting (the one by Mokoma). I said he could get back on that level if he quit MMA and trained freestyle full time. I also said it’s unlikely he could get back to that level fast enough for the 2020 trials even if he made the switch now...so that answers your smartass question about what I think he could’ve done at WTT with a month of training.

The facts are simple: I never said he could flip a switch and win anything. I said people who said too much time has passed and he could NEVER catch back up to the likes to Zain and Yianni are wrong.

He came a step-out point away from being our Olympic rep at 19 in 2016. He’s only 22 today. If he came back to training freestyle full time he could absolutely get back on Zain and Yianni’s level again. Not overnight but while still in his athletic prime. In other words it’s far from too late for Pico to come back to wrestling and (eventually) be world class. 

Feel free to keep pretending I’m saying something different. 

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6 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

Getting back to the subject of the thread, right now as it currently stands:

  1. Pico is an MMA Fighter with a Journeyman 4-3 record
  2. Pico has been knocked out 3 times in his brief MMA career. It appears he has a glass chin. 
  3. Pico has not wrestled competitively since when? 4 years ago? 

But Pico is good enough to win 65Kg or 70Kg right now!!!

Anyone want to buy that bridge over there? It's for sale!

Agreed, Pico is good enough to win 65 and 70 right now.

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5 hours ago, Coach_J said:

JImmy Carr made an Olympic team at 16.  On course to win at least 2 Olympic medals, right?  Placed at NCAA once and pretty much was done.  Let's be careful about projecting what someone "would/could/should" have done.

Yup, just more proof that FS and folk are different sports.

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