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gmdband

Freestyle Rules On Takedowns Defy Logic

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I have always thought that some of the criteria for takedowns in freestyle defy logic.

If, from a standing neutral position, one wrestler is gets completely behind another and has his arm around the waist of the bottom wrestler and the bottom wrestler is in a quadpod position, I think it should be ruled a takedown.  It certainly demonstrates control which should be one of the major goals of a takedown.  The issue of whether the bottom wrestler knee touches is confusing and sometimes ambiguous depending on what angle you are viewing from.

Folkstyle even gives a standing takedown in some cases (where the hands are not even touching the mat).

The Fix-Gilman Final X 3rd match is a good example of this.  From my viewpoint, Fix was on top of and behind Gilman who was just hanging on Fix's foot as a last gasp desperation tactic.

All this confusion and ambiguity does not really help the sport.

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1 hour ago, mlbruem said:

Nothing more confusing and unexplainable to the general public than he or she won 2 to 2

Tie breakers don't seem that confusing to me.

Baseball - tie goes to the runner (is this an actual rule?)

Weightlifting  - tie goes to the lighter competitor

Judo (old rules) - Referee and two match judges vote

I prefer OT, but to me there nothing confusing about tiebreakers.  Modern Judo has the tiebreaker I like best, which is unlimited period, but the matches are one period 4 minutes long and the tiebreaker is often decided on a penalty, which in my opinion as easier to call than wrestling penalties

Regulation ended in a tie score there has to be some way to pick the winner.  Folkstyle rules are almost as bad, after all the tiebreakers are done, they go to criteria as well.  If you remember in the 1970s/80s, referees would decide the winner, which I think gave way to a whole bunch of tiebreak criteria, the last of which was a coin flip.

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On 6/23/2019 at 12:15 PM, gmdband said:

I have always thought that some of the criteria for takedowns in freestyle defy logic.

If, from a standing neutral position, one wrestler is gets completely behind another and has his arm around the waist of the bottom wrestler and the bottom wrestler is in a quadpod position, I think it should be ruled a takedown.  It certainly demonstrates control which should be one of the major goals of a takedown.  The issue of whether the bottom wrestler knee touches is confusing and sometimes ambiguous depending on what angle you are viewing from.

Folkstyle even gives a standing takedown in some cases (where the hands are not even touching the mat).

The Fix-Gilman Final X 3rd match is a good example of this.  From my viewpoint, Fix was on top of and behind Gilman who was just hanging on Fix's foot as a last gasp desperation tactic.

All this confusion and ambiguity does not really help the sport.

It’s not all that confusing. Freestyle has nothing to do with control and the criteria that leads to no OT is one of the best things about the sport. It keeps the match entertaining until the end of the match.  

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This is truly a good time for FS rules. I can't speak for Greco, because I am too far out of touch and am only a casual observer at this point. 

 

Pools? Ball grabs? DOESN'T MATTER. Only 47,379 steps from full wrestle-backs and true bronze medals

 

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7 hours ago, Jim L said:

Tie breakers don't seem that confusing to me.

Baseball - tie goes to the runner (is this an actual rule?)

Weightlifting  - tie goes to the lighter competitor

Judo (old rules) - Referee and two match judges vote

I prefer OT, but to me there nothing confusing about tiebreakers.  Modern Judo has the tiebreaker I like best, which is unlimited period, but the matches are one period 4 minutes long and the tiebreaker is often decided on a penalty, which in my opinion as easier to call than wrestling penalties

Regulation ended in a tie score there has to be some way to pick the winner.  Folkstyle rules are almost as bad, after all the tiebreakers are done, they go to criteria as well.  If you remember in the 1970s/80s, referees would decide the winner, which I think gave way to a whole bunch of tiebreak criteria, the last of which was a coin flip.

Taking a stab at the "tie goes to the runner" in baseball. There is no such rule. Either safe or out. MLB has replay for another look at these plays when needed. 

In leagues where there's no replay involved, the baseball ump has to decide safe or out and live with it. When the umpires truly feel it is a tie, one helpful rule of thumb they can use is - if the defense makes a nice clean play and there is that "tie" the ump bangs the runner out. Reward the defense. If the defense (let's say shortstop for ex) bobbles the ball a little, or boots it a little, or whatever, then throws to first and we get that "tie", umps can call runner safe. Blame the defense. (No, not out loud, just by making the out call.)

Back to freestyle wrestling, they usually have the line under the points scored of the wrestler ahead on criteria with a tie score. That helps a lot.

Since we're on rules here, if I may go off on a little tangent, I noticed at Final X that the clocked ticked down from 3:00 minutes each period. Not a real big deal here, but I do like how UWW starts the first period ticking down from 6:00 and then the second period at 3:00 minutes. You can just look at the clock and automatically know what period you're in.

Edited by 2td3nf

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I hated criteria initially but have fully come around on it and prefer it to overtime.  That said, even though it changes nothing they should award an extra point after the match is over to make it simpler for casual fans.  Similar to the riding point in college - if the match ends in a tie score, award the criteria point after and make that the final score.

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