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I have been seeing a lot of input doubting that JB makes the Olympic squad next year.  I'm not so sure.  I think he will, Dake or no Dake.  I think it will be too much weight to lose for Dake  now that he has gone up and became a world Champ on his own.  But i think it will be JB's last year on the team.  I think he will hang it up after that. 

Any thoughts?

mspart

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JB will win another championship if not rattle off two straight, cementing his legacy.  However, he doesn't have another quad in him.  His recent interviews suggest his focus shifting more to his family and trying to get back to NJ.  

I'm not sure Dake will easily get by IMar by next year.  

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IMO, It hinges on whether JB medals at worlds, which would give him a bye to the final in the trials. Trials won’t be using a Final X format, so Dake (or anyone else) will have to go through the challenge tourney just to get to a fresh JB.

 

If he doesn’t medal at worlds, I don’t think JB beats Dake in a “fair” trials process.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, lu_alum said:

IMO, It hinges on whether JB medals at worlds which would give him a bye to the final in the trials. Trials won’t be using a Final X format, so Dake (or anyone else) will have to go through the challenge tourney just to get to a fresh JB.

If he doesn’t medal at worlds, I don’t think JB beats Dake in a “fair” trials process.


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I agree with @lu_alum and think it will be hard to beat JB if he is sitting in the finals fresh, and i do believe that he is placing this year. I am very interested to see how Dake bounces back after this injury, and on top of that... also becoming a father. I got my money on JB until he leaves his shoes in the center of the mat, if he is still lacing them up and competing, then i know he still got it in him to win. 

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39 minutes ago, lu_alum said:

IMO, It hinges on whether JB medals at worlds, which would give him a bye to the final in the trials. Trials won’t be using a Final X format, so Dake (or anyone else) will have to go through the challenge tourney just to get to a fresh JB.

 

If he doesn’t medal at worlds, I don’t think JB beats Dake in a “fair” trials process.

 

 

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Why do you think Dake is better? I’m pretty sure JB is 7-1 against Dake. 

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46 minutes ago, misterc said:

JB will win another championship if not rattle off two straight, cementing his legacy.  However, he doesn't have another quad in him.  His recent interviews suggest his focus shifting more to his family and trying to get back to NJ.  

I'm not sure Dake will easily get by IMar by next year.  

I think I read (or heard) recently that JB has said he isn’t interested in coaching...or maybe not NCAA coaching. If that’s true it would explain why he’s looking to move back to NJ where there’s only one major D1 wrestling program (and it’s not looking for a new coach). I wonder what he’s planning on doing? I know he’s done well for himself financially but no way I believe he has enough money to be set for life. He’s 30 with 2 young kids. Pretty hard to make any money from wrestling if you aren’t competing or coaching...

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6 minutes ago, MDogg said:

I think I read (or heard) recently that JB has said he isn’t interested in coaching...or maybe not NCAA coaching. If that’s true it would explain why he’s looking to move back to NJ where there’s only one major D1 wrestling program (and it’s not looking for a new coach). I wonder what he’s planning on doing? I know he’s done well for himself financially but no way I believe he has enough money to be set for life. He’s 30 with 2 young kids. Pretty hard to make any money from wrestling if you aren’t competing or coaching...

NJ has only one major d1 program? What about Rutgers? 

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27 minutes ago, Katie said:

Why do you think Dake is better? I’m pretty sure JB is 7-1 against Dake. 

Because every year Burroughs ages he loses a bit of freakish athleticism, which has always been a large part of his success. Theres a reason he's got a bronze and a DNP in the last 3 years, and it's because he doesnt have the same explosiveness he had when he started at the sr level. 

Edited by ohcomeon

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4 hours ago, ohcomeon said:

Because every year Burroughs ages he loses a bit of freakish athleticism, which has always been a large part of his success. Theres a reason he's got a 2 bronzes and a DNP in the last 4 years, and it's because he doesnt have the same explosiveness he had when he started at the sr level. 

Okay so your imagination tells you that if JB gets bye to the OTT finals against Dake, he cannot possibly legitimately win over him. Got it.

(Also, JB has two golds, a bronze, and a 9th place finish in the last four years. Dake’s record in the past four years is impressive, but not better than JB’s.)

Edited by Katie

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What is harder to overcome, aging a year and kids becoming more self sufficient or aging, injury recovery and a newborn?

I’ll go with JB, he is battle tested scouted and proven to overcome. Dake, I don’t think was nearly as scouted and I think last year’s performance might be too hard to replicate.  My struggle with all the above is that I am not sure if IMar is really that good - would you pick IMar over Dake?  I wouldn’t so maybe Dake does take the spot?

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2 hours ago, ohcomeon said:

Because every year Burroughs ages he loses a bit of freakish athleticism, which has always been a large part of his success. Theres a reason he's got a bronze and a DNP in the last 3 years, and it's because he doesnt have the same explosiveness he had when he started at the sr level. 

I echo Katie and say that  Dake is also getting older and obviously banged up what you wrote above applies to him too (except for the medalling, He's only got a gold in the last 3 years,  whereas Burroughs has a Bronze, a Gold, and a DNP in the last 3 years. 

mspart

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I think I read (or heard) recently that JB has said he isn’t interested in coaching...or maybe not NCAA coaching. If that’s true it would explain why he’s looking to move back to NJ where there’s only one major D1 wrestling program (and it’s not looking for a new coach). I wonder what he’s planning on doing? I know he’s done well for himself financially but no way I believe he has enough money to be set for life. He’s 30 with 2 young kids. Pretty hard to make any money from wrestling if you aren’t competing or coaching...


Opening wrestling clubs seems to be trending and I bet lucrative, especially when you’re the King. One of his gripes about coaching college was the recruiting process. Which he obviously wouldn’t have to deal with in a wrestling club.

I wouldn’t be surprised if he and his wife collaborated on a few things also. I believe he designed the camo shark singlet that was well received at Final X.



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15 minutes ago, misterc said:

 


Opening wrestling clubs seems to be trending and I bet lucrative, especially when you’re the King. One of his gripes about coaching college was the recruiting process. Which he obviously wouldn’t have to deal with in a wrestling club.

I wouldn’t be surprised if he and his wife collaborated on a few things also. I believe he designed the camo shark singlet that was well received at Final X.



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I assume he'll continue to get some income from Asics, to the extent people keep buying his shoes. Not sure what other endorsements he has and how long they'd last.

I'm sure he could become a D1 coach, an RTC coach, a wrestling academy owner, or a wrestling coach at an MMA gym.

He could also pursue a career outside of wrestling. He'd have a good start on that, given his college degree, his social-media presence, and his public-speaking skills.

Edited by Katie

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1 hour ago, Katie said:

I assume he'll continue to get some income from Asics, to the extent people keep buying his shoes. Not sure what other endorsements he has and how long they'd last.

I'm sure he could become a D1 coach, an RTC coach, a wrestling academy owner, or a wrestling coach at an MMA gym.

He could also pursue a career outside of wrestling. He'd have a good start on that, given his college degree, his social-media presence, and his public-speaking skills.

Maybe he'll replace Tim Johnson and/or Jim Gibbons?

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15 hours ago, Katie said:

I assume he'll continue to get some income from Asics, to the extent people keep buying his shoes. Not sure what other endorsements he has and how long they'd last.

I'm sure he could become a D1 coach, an RTC coach, a wrestling academy owner, or a wrestling coach at an MMA gym.

He could also pursue a career outside of wrestling. He'd have a good start on that, given his college degree, his social-media presence, and his public-speaking skills.

I hope he doesn’t leave wrestling. He can do well outside of wrestling given his talent and work ethic, but for those same reasons I want him to continue building wrestling in the US. Preferably as a coach

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For whatever reason I see JB medaling this year but not winning. Then winning next year in Tokyo and retiring, with the most impressive resume in USA Wrestling history. After his competition days I see a position with USAW or the RTC at Rutgers. I have nothing to back these “predictions”, just feel that way. 

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On 6/25/2019 at 2:54 PM, MDogg said:

I think I read (or heard) recently that JB has said he isn’t interested in coaching...or maybe not NCAA coaching. If that’s true it would explain why he’s looking to move back to NJ where there’s only one major D1 wrestling program (and it’s not looking for a new coach). I wonder what he’s planning on doing? I know he’s done well for himself financially but no way I believe he has enough money to be set for life. He’s 30 with 2 young kids. Pretty hard to make any money from wrestling if you aren’t competing or coaching...

He will go on a Nationwide tour and do exhibition matches against Tim Tebow.

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On 6/25/2019 at 3:46 PM, Katie said:

Why do you think Dake is better? I’m pretty sure JB is 7-1 against Dake. 

JB was able to sit in the finals prior to at least four of those wins (and I think it was actually six), while Dake had to wrestle two or three hammers earlier in the day (one year he had to beat Taylor and Andrew Howe just to face a fresh JB, all in one day).  Although I won't claim Dake would have beaten him fresh (I don't know), he was seriously disadvantaged.

The only time they met under equivalent conditions, in the 2017 US Open finals, Burroughs won a very controversial match.  He repeatedly smacked Dake in the face without consequence, and IIRC, some of the actual scoring was questionable.  Of course, Dake also dropped into his three point stance often, which was heavily criticized as stalling, so there was controversy on both sides.

Regardless, it was a very close match, and led to their final matches later that summer.  After dropping the first match, JB won the final two, so their most recent matches have been very even.

Personally, I think if Dake opens up more, he beats JB next season.  Unfortunately, he sometimes seems to clam up in finals matches regardless of the opponent, but especially against JB.  At that level, unsuccessful leg attacks often lead to opponent scores, and Dake's defense has been amazing the last few years, so he often gets away with it.

JB also looked beatable at Final X this year, especially his first two matches.  Whether that was due to weight management issues, which I doubt, or some other externality , I think Dake beats that JB handily.

Of course, as a huge Dake fan, my opinion should be taken with a grain of salt, but I think a healthy Dake has a good chance of making the Olympic team at 74 kg, and winning gold.

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36 minutes ago, whaletail said:

JB was able to sit in the finals prior to at least four of those wins (and I think it was actually six), while Dake had to wrestle two or three hammers earlier in the day (one year he had to beat Taylor and Andrew Howe just to face a fresh JB, all in one day).  Although I won't claim Dake would have beaten him fresh (I don't know), he was seriously disadvantaged.

The only time they met under equivalent conditions, in the 2017 US Open finals, Burroughs won a very controversial match.  He repeatedly smacked Dake in the face without consequence, and IIRC, some of the actual scoring was questionable.  Of course, Dake also dropped into his three point stance often, which was heavily criticized as stalling, so there was controversy on both sides.

Regardless, it was a very close match, and led to their final matches later that summer.  After dropping the first match, JB won the final two, so their most recent matches have been very even.

Personally, I think if Dake opens up more, he beats JB next season.  Unfortunately, he sometimes seems to clam up in finals matches regardless of the opponent, but especially against JB.  At that level, unsuccessful leg attacks often lead to opponent scores, and Dake's defense has been amazing the last few years, so he often gets away with it.

JB also looked beatable at Final X this year, especially his first two matches.  Whether that was due to weight management issues, which I doubt, or some other externality , I think Dake beats that JB handily.

Of course, as a huge Dake fan, my opinion should be taken with a grain of salt, but I think a healthy Dake has a good chance of making the Olympic team at 74 kg, and winning gold.

Okay so none of JB's seven wins over Dake count, but Dake's one win against JB counts. Got it.

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IMO the level of domestic competition in the US is one of the things that makes FS so great right now. At almost every weight, particularly in Olympic years, we have multiple guys who I feel can medal internationally. Regardless who you root for domestically, I believe we will ultimately have a contender internationally at nearly every weight. It’s pretty awesome. 

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I would love to see JB run the table the next two years and cement his legacy as the GOAT for America. I think he has a decent shot to do it. It is certainly not a given but I think he performs his best when he is a bit of an underdog. So hopefully everyone keeps overlooking him and he wins two more titles!

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