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Zain - Yanni outcome?

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37 minutes ago, drag it said:

Just noting that tomorrow will be exactly a month since the day that Coach Koll said (on the June 11 Rudis podcast) that he'd be submitting his written letter/appeal/petition to USA Wrestling and USOC.  

There are a lot of issues and it's a quasi-legal process, so you'd expect that it would take a little while, but we could be approaching the time when the authorities' delay in issuing a decision could start becoming harmful to the wrestlers.  If further wrestling is ordered, you'd want them to have enough time to prepare for the wrestle-off and then for the winner to be able to prepare for the Worlds.  You'd also want Zain to have peace of mind and clarity that his World-centric training won't be interrupted if there is no wrestle-off.  

in one of flo's yasar dogu videos is an interview with yianni and he shrugs and says that the arbitration procedure, if not the actual hearing, is underway but he has no idea when it will take place or when it will be resolved. his body language says to me that nobody is blowing smoke up his ass and telling him the protest is a slam dunk.

Edited by ugarte

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51 minutes ago, Fishbane said:

Good.  5 seconds is not.  

 

Foley argued that this is meant to be a guideline not a hard rule and that this can be clearly seen if you consider a challenge for points that are not awarded.  

“The coach has 5 seconds from the time the questioned score is posted on the official scoreboard to request a challenge.”

So supposing that’s a hard 5 second rule for questioning points awarded.   If the coach thinks points should have been awarded, but were not, then the questioned score could have been on the board since the beginning of the match since it didn’t change.   Does that mean he cannot challenge it?  Does that mean that rule is not applicable and there is no time limit on challenging points not awarded?  Does that mean the mat chair should interpret it as something along the lines of the coach has 5 seconds from when the points would reasonably be expected to have appeared on the official scoreboard to request a challenge?  Or does it mean 5 seconds is not strictly 5 seconds?

 

I think the answer on that is if you think points should have been awarded but were not, you have five seconds from the next stoppage, since that is the first definitive time that you can say the points were not put on the board.

That said, I am not making a claim that the five second "thing" is a hard and fast rule. I'd accept a ruling that it is a guideline. I'd even accept that you can wait almost a minute, if the panel determined that a minute is acceptable as a general rule or even more often than not. There are a lot of rulings that don't go Yianni's way that I'd consider reasonable, I just don't see why you'd kick up a fuss that he's protesting at all given all of the ... let's call them "procedural ambiguities."

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15 hours ago, hammerlockthree said:

Neither is "if your head touches you are out of bounds" but that's enforced across the board.

It's enforced because you are wrong and it is a rule: https://unitedworldwrestling.org/sites/default/files/2018-12/wrestling_rules.pdf

Article 29 – Interrupting and Continuing the Bout

When the wrestling has been stopped in standing or “parterre” position, it will recommence standing. Wrestling must be stopped and resumed at the center of the mat in the standing position if:
- One foot entirely touches the protection area and no action is executed.
- The wrestlers in a hold go into the passivity zone with three or four feet without executing the hold and stay there.
- If the bottom wrestler’s head entirely touches the protection zone. 

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51 minutes ago, IronChef said:

It's enforced because you are wrong and it is a rule: https://unitedworldwrestling.org/sites/default/files/2018-12/wrestling_rules.pdf

Article 29 – Interrupting and Continuing the Bout

When the wrestling has been stopped in standing or “parterre” position, it will recommence standing. Wrestling must be stopped and resumed at the center of the mat in the standing position if:
- One foot entirely touches the protection area and no action is executed.
- The wrestlers in a hold go into the passivity zone with three or four feet without executing the hold and stay there.
- If the bottom wrestler’s head entirely touches the protection zone. 

What does "entirely touches" mean?  I'd have trouble touching the entirety of my head to almost anything.

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1 hour ago, IronChef said:

It's enforced because you are wrong and it is a rule: https://unitedworldwrestling.org/sites/default/files/2018-12/wrestling_rules.pdf

Article 29 – Interrupting and Continuing the Bout

When the wrestling has been stopped in standing or “parterre” position, it will recommence standing. Wrestling must be stopped and resumed at the center of the mat in the standing position if:
- One foot entirely touches the protection area and no action is executed.
- The wrestlers in a hold go into the passivity zone with three or four feet without executing the hold and stay there.
- If the bottom wrestler’s head entirely touches the protection zone. 

it never ceases to amaze me how many "fans" have no clue what the rules are, yet, scream at the top of their lungs as if they do...

this phenomenon is replicated in coaches as well... some of them previous world team members who have an ego too large to keep up with the actual rules... some of those who coach at RTCs...

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26 minutes ago, Fishbane said:

What does "entirely touches" mean?  I'd have trouble touching the entirety of my head to almost anything.

it means any part of your head touching fully out of bounds and not on any portion of the protection zone line at all...

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15 hours ago, Fishbane said:

Good.  5 seconds is not.  

Foley argued that this is meant to be a guideline not a hard rule and that this can be clearly seen if you consider a challenge for points that are not awarded.  

“The coach has 5 seconds from the time the questioned score is posted on the official scoreboard to request a challenge.”

So supposing that’s a hard 5 second rule for questioning points awarded.   If the coach thinks points should have been awarded, but were not, then the questioned score could have been on the board since the beginning of the match since it didn’t change.   Does that mean he cannot challenge it?  Does that mean that rule is not applicable and there is no time limit on challenging points not awarded?  Does that mean the mat chair should interpret it as something along the lines of the coach has 5 seconds from when the points would reasonably be expected to have appeared on the official scoreboard to request a challenge?  Or does it mean 5 seconds is not strictly 5 seconds?

 

Its not about 5 seconds (although Koll is trying to make it about that), its about throwing the brick within a reasonable period of time. The officials doing the match ultimately believed that the brick was thrown within a reasonable period of time given the circumstances of the action in that match. 

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43 minutes ago, NJDan said:

The 5 second rule is actually a rule. That's why it's called a rule.

I saw knowledgeable people call it a "point". One knowledgeable guy, Tr Foley,  tried to explain it in his newsletter and some Cornell wrestling fan named NJDan ripped him. Hmmm. 

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Well tonight we will see Zain v Yianni again, I have no idea about the outcome, but I am pretty sure we are going to see a lot of action. I guess it will come down to two things, can Zain finish his shots, or will Yianni be able to counter and score. It's unfortunate in my opinion that these two have to face off in the first round, but there isn't anything to do about it now except watch these two go at it. 

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You know me, I'm always complaining when teammates from the same country are in the same half bracket and or even worse, the ridiculous chance they have to face each other in first round of an international tournament.  

This might be the only time where I really don't mind seeing 2 Americans match up in the first round of an overseas tournament.   :D

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Found it. 

Friday, July 12

4 AM ET - Preliminary rounds through semifinals (65-79-125 kg MFS) (53-57-62-68 kg WFS) repechage (57-61-70Kg MFS) (50-55-59-65Kg WFS)

10:30 AM ET - Bronze and Gold medal matches (57-61-70 kg MFS) (50-55-59-65 kg WFS)

 

Saturday, July 13

4 AM ET – Preliminary rounds through semifinals (74-86-92-97 kg MFS) (72-76 kg WFS) & Repechage (65-79-125 kg MFS) (53-57-62-68 kg WFS)

10 AM ET - Bronze and Gold medal matches (65-79-125 kg MFS) (53-57-62-68 kg WFS)

 

Sunday, July 14

4 AM ET  - Repechage (74-86-92-97 kg MFS) (72-76 kg WFS)

5:30 AM ET  - Bronze and Gold medal matches (74-86-92-97 kg MFS) (72-76Kg WFS)

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5 hours ago, treep2000 said:

Yianni wins is my prediction, and the appeal argument goes nutso.  

Good prediction. The more they wrestle, the better for Yianni, in my opinion. Only so many ch ages Zain can make to his style. Yianni has more to work with to adjust and we saw that tonight. It’ll be interesting what happens by next year as these two get more practice time together. 

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3 hours ago, CA_Wrestler said:

Why did Zain even stay on Yianni's back when there was a chance for Yianni to get exposure?  That looked more like a folkstyle mindset by Zain than anything else.

I wondered the same thing. Bad tactic there. 

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what exactly was he supposed to do?

yanni had his leg and arm wrapped... zain's other foot completely off the mat... he was going for a ride no matter what...

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