NCAA approves shorts

[jchapman 716]

Why do we think more middle schoolers will go out for wrestling if the NCAA allows shorts?

[Katie 612]

23 hours ago, Fletcher said:

I think we've figured out the answer. We'll ditch the singlet and teams will wear compression shirts and compression shorts, but to prevent the shirt from riding up, the shorts will be attached to the shirt so they're one article of clothing.

Totally agree. But what do we call this compression shorts-compression top combination?

[Sparky 15]

On 6/29/2019 at 1:34 PM, Katie said:

Back in 1956, it was normal for athletes to wrestle without a top whatsoever:

 

The Midwest tended to wrestle bare-chested.  The coasts tended to wear tops. 

[Sparky 15]

2 hours ago, jchapman said:

Why do we think more middle schoolers will go out for wrestling if the NCAA allows shorts?

Yeah, compression shirts/compression or fight shorts have been legal in HS and MS for a few years now.  Like you I don't see the connection with the NCAA rules....

[1032004 365]

1 hour ago, Sparky said:

Yeah, compression shirts/compression or fight shorts have been legal in HS and MS for a few years now.  Like you I don't see the connection with the NCAA rules....

The NCAA change is more about the viewers IMO

[GockeS 243]

On 6/28/2019 at 8:13 AM, rcoates1 said:

Have you never talked to middle school kids?  That’s their number one complaint.  It’s laughable how ignorant you are.

i dont buy it.

we did it.

none of those kids stayed out.

the list of excuses just grew.

[GockeS 243]

On 6/29/2019 at 3:14 PM, Fletcher said:

I think we've figured out the answer. We'll ditch the singlet and teams will wear compression shirts and compression shorts, but to prevent the shirt from riding up, the shorts will be attached to the shirt so they're one article of clothing.

maybe im missing sarcasm...

isn't that just a singlet?

[Fletcher 514]

9 hours ago, Katie said:

Totally agree. But what do we call this compression shorts-compression top combination?

A onelet.

[GreatWhiteNorth 59]

I've heard "Onesie", "leotard", etc. dozens of times. In groups of people, it generates a pretty good laugh and wrestling takes yet another unnecessary hit in the teeth.

I realize this forum is the wrong audience - but, seriously, normal non-hardcore viewers do not like singlets! Especially with a guys' junk outlined in detail. It becomes a joke that all non-wrestlers get and keeps them just that much further away from becoming legitimate fans.

How hard is it to realize this needs to change? As silly as it seems, it is really another barrier that keeps us from mainstream legitimacy.

[russelscout 1,013]

5 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

I've heard "Onesie", "leotard", etc. dozens of times. In groups of people, it generates a pretty good laugh and wrestling takes yet another unnecessary hit in the teeth.

I realize this forum is the wrong audience - but, seriously, normal non-hardcore viewers do not like singlets! Especially with a guys' junk outlined in detail. It becomes a joke that all non-wrestlers get and keeps them just that much further away from becoming legitimate fans.

How hard is it to realize this needs to change? As silly as it seems, it is really another barrier that keeps us from mainstream legitimacy.

I was born and grew up in Iowa. I started wrestling from the age of 4. For me the singlet was no big deal at all. However, I had a couple of the "popular girls" make fun of us throughout the season because we wore a singlet. I am sure in some schools, which have successful teams already, it is accepted. In my town where we only had a qualifier for state every year or so, the singlet was a joke. Once again, this was not a big deal to me or a couple of my friends who had been wrestling forever, but it was enough to keep a few guys on the fringe from going out. NCAA making this move would be important because guys like me were highly influenced by those guys. NCAA does it, High School and Middle will eventually follow suit. I think the positives outweigh the negatives here.

[jchapman 716]

16 minutes ago, russelscout said:

I was born and grew up in Iowa. I started wrestling from the age of 4. For me the singlet was no big deal at all. However, I had a couple of the "popular girls" make fun of us throughout the season because we wore a singlet. I am sure in some schools, which have successful teams already, it is accepted. In my town where we only had a qualifier for state every year or so, the singlet was a joke. Once again, this was not a big deal to me or a couple of my friends who had been wrestling forever, but it was enough to keep a few guys on the fringe from going out. NCAA making this move would be important because guys like me were highly influenced by those guys. NCAA does it, High School and Middle will eventually follow suit. I think the positives outweigh the negatives here.

NFSH already allows shorts in high school.

[russelscout 1,013]

33 minutes ago, jchapman said:

NFSH already allows shorts in high school.

Yes, but the kids do not make this decision. Coaches and administration do. If they are going to actually consult an athlete, they won't talk to a kid on the edge of going out. They are going to ask a kid like me who had been wrestling forever. What kid is going to out himself by saying "I don't want to look fat in the singlet and get made fun of for it." Not many. It has to become a norm before it will be adopted by High School and Middle.

Edited July 1 by russelscout

[Fletcher 514]

If we switch to shorts, how is the audience supposed to know if the competitors are circumcised?

[1032004 365]

Hopefully the shorts they use are better than the ones Flo used for WNO where everyone was just rolling them up and they looked kinda ridiculous.

 

 

Edited July 1 by 1032004

[wildcatfan1992 47]

9 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

I've heard "Onesie", "leotard", etc. dozens of times. In groups of people, it generates a pretty good laugh and wrestling takes yet another unnecessary hit in the teeth.

I realize this forum is the wrong audience - but, seriously, normal non-hardcore viewers do not like singlets! Especially with a guys' junk outlined in detail. It becomes a joke that all non-wrestlers get and keeps them just that much further away from becoming legitimate fans.

How hard is it to realize this needs to change? As silly as it seems, it is really another barrier that keeps us from mainstream legitimacy.

I don't know a single person that became a fan because of the uniform.  In fact, I don't know a single person that is a fan that was never involved in wrestling in some capacity (parents, siblings, etc.).  I just don't see how shorts will draw in a whole new fan base and make the sport "mainstream".  with that said, I prefer the singlet, but I don't care if teams wear shorts.

[Cooch1 114]

On 6/30/2019 at 4:16 PM, Sparky said:

The Midwest tended to wrestle bare-chested.  The coasts tended to wear tops. 

Ahhthe good ol days when men covered their ankles and left a little more to the imagination.

[Idaho 449]

Just think of how many potential ncaa champs...world champs...Olympic champs are out there that we missed because they wouldn’t wear a singlet...sigh. Now I know where to place all my negative energy in the sport. 

[russelscout 1,013]

8 minutes ago, Idaho said:

Just think of how many potential ncaa champs...world champs...Olympic champs are out there that we missed because they wouldn’t wear a singlet...sigh. Now I know where to place all my negative energy in the sport. 

Yeah, because only those wrestlers are the ones we should care about.... You may find it as a waste of time to push for this change, but people that are soooooo tied to tradition just because are the real joke here. I dont understand the staunch support for the leotard.

[Idaho 449]

21 hours ago, russelscout said:

Yeah, because only those wrestlers are the ones we should care about.... You may find it as a waste of time to push for this change, but people that are soooooo tied to tradition just because are the real joke here. I dont understand the staunch support for the leotard.

So if I understand you correctly, you are a supporter of shorts because it will help get a few fringe kids out for the sport? Is that correct? 

[russelscout 1,013]

7 minutes ago, Idaho said:

So if I understand you correctly, you are a supporter of shorts because it will help get a few fringe kids out for the sport? Is that correct? 

That and there is really no reason to stay with singlets other than tradition. 

[Idaho 449]

Just now, russelscout said:

That and there is really no reason to stay with singlets other than tradition. 

I really don't care about the issue one way or the other. So your only real answer - to get fringe kids to come out for wrestling? So, what is your plan to keep them out once they get past the singlet thing? You do realize that is one very small factor in a kid sticking with wrestling? Having coached for a very long time -my experience has been it is a very small factor. Just getting them to come out is one battle of many.  

No reason to stay with singlets other than tradition? I would argue that singlets are much more comfortable for competition and better suited for the action of the sport than a pair of shorts and shirt.  Would you also suggest that high level track and field also abandon their competition uniform? It is very much like a singlet and used for the same reasons. I really don't care either way, but to say that there is no reason to stay with them is not accurate. 

[russelscout 1,013]

9 minutes ago, Idaho said:

I really don't care about the issue one way or the other. So your only real answer - to get fringe kids to come out for wrestling? So, what is your plan to keep them out once they get past the singlet thing? You do realize that is one very small factor in a kid sticking with wrestling? Having coached for a very long time -my experience has been it is a very small factor. Just getting them to come out is one battle of many.  

No reason to stay with singlets other than tradition? I would argue that singlets are much more comfortable for competition and better suited for the action of the sport than a pair of shorts and shirt.  Would you also suggest that high level track and field also abandon their competition uniform? It is very much like a singlet and used for the same reasons. I really don't care either way, but to say that there is no reason to stay with them is not accurate. 

I also coached for many years. In my experience, the social stigma played a large factor in kids even entertaining the idea. If we can connect that mental bridge between MMA and wrestling, I think we get more kids interested. That is a whole new selling point that should be pursued.

If singlets are so much more comfortable, then why does 99% of the wrestling community not practice in them? High level track may have singlets, but where I am from you do not see that in the jr high level. 

[Idaho 449]

42 minutes ago, russelscout said:

I also coached for many years. In my experience, the social stigma played a large factor in kids even entertaining the idea. If we can connect that mental bridge between MMA and wrestling, I think we get more kids interested. That is a whole new selling point that should be pursued.

If singlets are so much more comfortable, then why does 99% of the wrestling community not practice in them? High level track may have singlets, but where I am from you do not see that in the jr high level. 

The connection is obvious, however that mental bridge is about 100 miles long....a kid is tough and and interested in MMA but won't wrestle because of a singlet? Yeah...loooonnnnng mentality bridge. 

Why don't we practice in singlets? For the same reason most sports don't practice in their competition uniform - you didn't find a singlet comfortable and best for competition? You ever wrestle those kids with shorts and a t-shirt? Getting a hand caught in the shirt, fingers snagged on shorts and collars. I see it happen in practice all the time - but that's not a competition.  Perhaps the solution at the lower level is to let a kid choose what he wants to wear in his school colors - the school singlet or a school color tight compression short/shirt that doesn't impede the opposing wrestler. Or would the singlet choice for some kids be a "joke" because they actually like competing in it more? 

 

[GockeS 243]

3 hours ago, russelscout said:

I also coached for many years. In my experience, the social stigma played a large factor in kids even entertaining the idea. If we can connect that mental bridge between MMA and wrestling, I think we get more kids interested. That is a whole new selling point that should be pursued.

If singlets are so much more comfortable, then why does 99% of the wrestling community not practice in them? High level track may have singlets, but where I am from you do not see that in the jr high level. 

i disagree to an extent. there is a social stigma, but i believe it has nothing to do with the singlet.

i believe, it has to do with not feeling comfortable in a combat situation and then making a way to make it look like your are cool and wrestlers are not.

[GreatWhiteNorth 59]

There is a HUGE social stigma associated with wrestling singlets (onesies, leotards, etc.) Not among wrestlers, nor among wrestling coaches, nor wrestling super fans. If you are one of these three sets of people, your personal opinion about singlets doesn't really count - you're not the subject of this discussion.

It exists with the people who are being introduced to the sport, and their first reaction to watching a match (because they don't know any better) is 'whoa - that guy's junk is showing' and then the laughs and belittlement of the sport follow. Yes - we understand the psychology behind it. People reject things they don't understand when there is an easy reason to reject it. 

No - poster from a few posts back - I'm not saying changing off of singlets will instantly create more fans. What I'm saying is that the potential casual fanbase for decades has had an 'easy out' of becoming a fan by either making fun of singlets or agreeing with those that make fun of them. These are potential casual fans who are friends with wrestlers, or maybe friends of friends, and who are turned away, at least to some degree, by it.

This isn't rocket science. Imagine if the NBA players wore singlets with their junk outlined because it is comfortable and efficient and other players didn't get their hands caught up in jerseys and shorts, etc. Stop and give it some serious thought. How well do you think that would go over? And, more importantly, consider why. (Don't pre-pick a side - stop and consider it seriously first.)

Edited July 3 by GreatWhiteNorth