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Cletus_Tucker

Flo I am disappoint

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Thought i'd leave this here for my forum brethren to see and be aware of.

 

Back during the All Star match, I ordered Flo's coverage and had a great time taking in the action. The match ended, I requested my service be terminated and then I was billed again in December. No big deal, a simple email got the problem fixed and my $20 were re credited back to my account. On January 13, I was billed again only I didn't look at my account until the following month where i was billed once again. I emailed again and asked for both months to be credited and to be removed from the billing process. no response. I went to my bank in early March and had the charges reversed. March 13, I was billed again! I went ahead and closed my account after having the March charges reversed, but still no reply from Flo.

 

At a time when wrestling needs everyone's support, I sadly will no longer be able to support Flo. I gave them several chances and they simply did not do their part. In fact they put me through quite a bit on inconvenience just to have the matter dealt with. This isn't to bash Flo or to ignite any hateful discussion, just letting fellow board members know what my experience has been.

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Your story is simply bad business practice. It has nothing to do with wrestling. If they continue treating customers similar to your experience, Flo will not last much longer.

 

Hopefully they will get their act together.

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Cletus, I'm currently challenging the $150 charge for Tech wave. I ordered on Jan 5, looked at my account on Jan 6 and freaked when I saw the 150 charge. I cancelled the next day and I still see it on my bill. Now I have to contact the credit card company again.

 

They've gotten a little big for their britches. I have no problem paying for things, and I'm going to spend a lot of money in Des Moines, but they have lost me as a customer. I hope something more professional to come along. I've Also grown tired of the Bader's. They were OK when we didn't have anything to watch consistently. But now, I would hope they would quit all the joking around and just call the match and give pertinent info.

 

Sorry to vent but I don't like to deal with the issue that I still have hanging over my head.

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Wow, they sound like Enzyte in this story.

 

I've always wanted a Flo account, but only for the winter months. It's a lot of money for me and I dont need it in the off season.

 

I was going to get an account for the Taylor-Dake match but I couldnt swing it because I crashed my mom's car. And then right after, a lot of people here complained that they were having a hard time canceling their account. That scared me but I assumed they all got it taken care of. I guess not.

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Tech wave is great, but better suited for a current wrestler or a coach (the John Smith low single is worth it). What I don't get is why is the live coverage associated with technique videos. Technique vidoes should be tech wave and the premium content should be live coverage and all the other stuff. Just odd, but as I said before, Flo is great for the sport of wrestling. Gonzo journalism for sure, but that is what i like. Check out vice.com for some really good gonzo journalism (the North Korean documentaries are awesome).

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This exact same thing happened to my roommate in college with Girls Gone Wild. No matter what he did, they just kept mailing new DVD's and charging his account every month. Changing your account was smart.

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Flo has done incredible things for the sport. It is an amazing product that is worth the money but I agree that it is disappointing how hard they make it to cancel. The auto-renew policy is run in almost every internet subscription company (xbox, cbs-ulive, boingo wireless, ect.) It is a crappy way to run business but that is the unfortunate way it is done. Flo deserves to make money but a company that appeals to such a loyal community should definitely have an easy cancellation policy.

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Flo has done incredible things for the sport. It is an amazing product that is worth the money but I agree that it is disappointing how hard they make it to cancel. The auto-renew policy is run in almost every internet subscription company (xbox, cbs-ulive, boingo wireless, ect.) It is a crappy way to run business but that is the unfortunate way it is done. Flo deserves to make money but a company that appeals to such a loyal community should definitely have an easy cancellation policy.

 

The same thing happened with me and Sports Illustrated. I ordered a 1 year subscription and paid up front. When that year ran out I was charged for a 2nd year. I called them up and said I understand this is my fault for not reading the fine print but this is a pretty S**tty way of doing business but since the transaction already came out can you just take me off the automatic renewal for next year. The lady says yes and then I say so I wont get anymore issues of anything or be charged another cent by you guys? She says yes.

 

I just got a $40 bill in the mail the other day from them for a year subscription for Sports Illustrated for kids which I NEVER signed up for ill guarantee that.

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I don't do nothing with a monthly reoccurring subscription bill, regarding the watching of wrestling online.

 

They do reoccurring thing for just this reason. What's better than one month billing cycle? How about 4-6 before the sucker can figure out how to stop it!

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I personally had a very good esperience with flo, which surprised me after hearing som of the stories on here. I watched the Southern Scuffle and the Clash, plus some technique videos....just for the one month fee. No complaints...will resubscribe for key events.

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I agree they should make the technique wave separate from the live events. I'm a coach so the added coverage was awesome for me but I do think it's an odd way to run things. I also have to wonder at what point do the kids in the video want to take ownership of the videos they are on. When flo started out they were supposed to be non profit. I remember Martin claiming the site would always be so. I have no problem with trying to monetize a good idea, but when you start making money off of high school kids competing in an amateur wrestling match, I start to reconsider especially when you said it was always going to be free. I just wonder when a kid is going to say, hey I'm paying to watch MYSELF!

 

I guess my questions are...is just coming up with the idea for the website enough when none of the content is original product but simply videotaping someone else? Does every kid sign off on their bout footage? Have none said no?

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I subscribed to FLO and I have to say they're creating a billing nightmare by making things so complicated. It really doesn't need to be. They should charge a lower fee from 2.95 - 9.95 for PPV access and a separate fee for technique wave. Bundling it together is a short sighted approach. It seems as though they initiated a quick PPV solution to increase revenue and decided to bundle it into their current technique wave system without investing in a more sophisticated system that would allow them to do it right the first time.

 

I'm practically on a first name basis with Molly from Technique Wave Support (techwave@flowrestling.org), She is also their billing rep that has been helpful with refunding my credit card for the double billings and other things. Despite her efforts I have yet to receive my refund for the double billing.

 

I'm happy that we have Flowrestling. How they get away with the flowrestling.org part of it is a little confusing because I see them as a "for profit" endeavor more than I could ever possibly see them as a non-profit organization.

 

They definitely seem to be experiencing growing pains and as a business owner I have to say the hardest transition is converting from a startup home office / grass-roots type of deal to a corporation with employees, management levels and major expenses and liabilities.

 

I think they would rather just show up at the events and entertain wrestling fans but it's a business and in the end they need to work things out.

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OK, now I'm fricking pissed. Just got my mail and the credit card co. denied my credit because the liars at flo said that I never cancelled my subscription. The problem for those idiots is that I have an email confirming my cancellation...which was within 24 hours after I subscribed. Now I have to d ick around some more.

 

Unless you are a wrestler or coach, stay the puck away from giving those clowns. If they want to screw around people...AND LIE, then they won't even get a click onto their website again from me. Youtube has just about all I need to see anyway.

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OK, now I'm fricking pissed. Just got my mail and the credit card co. denied my credit because the liars at flo said that I never cancelled my subscription. The problem for those idiots is that I have an email confirming my cancellation...which was within 24 hours after I subscribed. Now I have to d ick around some more.

 

Unless you are a wrestler or coach, stay the puck away from giving to those clowns. If they want to screw around people...AND LIE, then they won't even get a click onto their website again from me. Youtube has just about all I need to see anyway.

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This exact same thing happened to my roommate in college with Girls Gone Wild. No matter what he did, they just kept mailing new DVD's and charging his account every month. Changing your account was smart.

 

They are being compared to some reputable companies in this thread.

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I try to follow a lot of the start-up scenes and two years ago I noticed that Flo had hired to new CEO to run all of their different media outlets (wrestling is just one of the many sports they have targeted over the years). I remember wondering how it would effect their product and if it would propel them to an elite product or if it was telling that they did not have what they needed to succeed so the Flo guys were saying 'we need help'. I don't know what the answer is but after watching what has developed over the last two years it has looked like they have struggled. I think most people enjoyed their old product a lot more. Only time will tell...

 

http://m.statesman.com/news/technology/ ... r-1/nRZYs/

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I subscribed to FLO and I have to say they're creating a billing nightmare by making things so complicated. It really doesn't need to be. They should charge a lower fee from 2.95 - 9.95 for PPV access and a separate fee for technique wave. Bundling it together is a short sighted approach. It seems as though they initiated a quick PPV solution to increase revenue and decided to bundle it into their current technique wave system without investing in a more sophisticated system that would allow them to do it right the first time.

 

I'm practically on a first name basis with Molly from Technique Wave Support (techwave@flowrestling.org), She is also their billing rep that has been helpful with refunding my credit card for the double billings and other things. Despite her efforts I have yet to receive my refund for the double billing.

 

I'm happy that we have Flowrestling. How they get away with the flowrestling.org part of it is a little confusing because I see them as a "for profit" endeavor more than I could ever possibly see them as a non-profit organization.

 

They definitely seem to be experiencing growing pains and as a business owner I have to say the hardest transition is converting from a startup home office / grass-roots type of deal to a corporation with employees, management levels and major expenses and liabilities.

 

I think they would rather just show up at the events and entertain wrestling fans but it's a business and in the end they need to work things out.

 

Good to know. I signed up for the free 7 day trial a week ago to test it out, and then I was billed $150.00. I had no idea I had to cancel it before the 7 day trial ended. Kind of annoyed on that part.

 

Besides that, I think we are really happy with Flo. If you don't want to pay and watch it live, they always repost the matches later that night or the next morning. So, you can just wait and watch everything for free.

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Hey guys, I wanted to respond to some of these complaints and resolve issues users have going forward. Flowrestling does greatly value the user experience of its subscribers (and the community as a whole), and we have been working hard to systemize support so that subscribers who contact support are responded to in a timely manner and receive any/every refund, credit back that complies with our subscription policies and Terms and Conditions. At the end of the day, we care WAYYYYY more about our community than we do money...and with any developing business, there is going to be growing pains, and there are going to be users who are disappointed with one aspect or another of a given product -this is universal, every company in the world (including Apple, Netflix, Google, Nike, etc., etc.,etc.) receives customer/product complaints every single day. I want to stress that we have a great community of users (subscribers and not) who support our premium products and greatly value all that is Flowrestling. We appreciate these users BIG TIME, and we will continue to do more and more for them going forward.

 

I'll address some issues first, then try to get in contact with users like, Cletus_Tucker & Ryan, to work on their individual cases so that we can resolve any problems that've occurred.

 

Canceling Tech Wave: Some MB posters have complained that it is hard to cancel their subscriptions. I don't see how this is the case. The easiest way to cancel your subscription is by clicking on your username (located at the top right of every page) and then going into your 'Account Settings.' From there, you will find a tab, 'Manage Subscription,' which allows you to cancel. We also have a 'SUPPORT' button at the top right of the nav bar. This 'SUPPORT' button (and the nav bar) are visible on every single page users go to. Anyone who has a complaint or customer support need can email us right away. We have no problem canceling user subscriptions manually; we are even willing to walk those less internet-savvy through how to navigate the website, cancel their subscription, etc. Users also have the ability to cancel their subscriptions themselves by going into their "Subscription Settings," which can be found at the bottom of the 'Technicians' dashboard on any premium videos page. Users also have the ability to fill out our 'Contact Form,' which can be found at the bottom of every single navigable page on the site, to request a cancelation.

 

Subscription vs. PPV: We do not offer PPV just as Netflix does not allow you to purchase just one film. We feel that a Tech Wave subscription is well worth the money as users are given thousands of technique videos, original documentary-style productions as well as live access to the best wrestling events in the country. Users get this all AT ONCE as soon as they subscribe. Tech Wave offerings:

 

Tech Wave Techniques: Wrestlers often purchase DVD's from camps/clinics for $20+ -I know I've done it. These DVD's usually feature only one clinician and highlight no more than a few dozen techniques. We've over one hundred technicians showing thousands and thousands of techniques. The Program: I'm not even going to get into this one. I'd pay $20+ just to watch the series on Iowa. We offer series on Iowa, NC State, Ohio State, Cornell...and tOSU & Cornell series haven't even concluded yet. And, yes, we plan on doing 'The Program' on more and more schools.

LIVE: $20 is a small price to pay to see the best events in the country live. In less than one month's time, we live streamed the KC Stampede, Powerade, The Clash, The Southern Scuffle and Doc B for users. In the past month, we've live streamed the National Duals Regionals, Prep Nationals, the PA State Championships, the EIWA Championships, the NCWA National Championships, the NY vs NJ All Star Meet and the Dapper Dan. I'd definitely say a $20 subscription is worth the price.

 

Automatic Renewal vs. One Time Charges: Automatic renewal is the industry standard. I could site a million and a half examples of high-profile companies who run their subscription services through an automatic renewal system. Washedupcoach's post should get you started.

 

Cletus_Tucker

I will investigate into why you were charged again. I'm guessing there is some technicality with your account that prohibited your subscription termination for the period you mentioned. You did say that you recently canceled your subscription. I'd like to confirm that and then refund you for any months you were undeservedly charged. To expedite the process: please send an inbox message to our Facebook page right away with your first name, last name, username and email. We will take care of you right away, homie! I'm sorry for the stress you've encountered due to cancelation difficulties.

 

Ryan

Ryan, please inbox message our Facebook page with your first name, last name, username and email. Judging from the date you signed up (the date Doc B was live on FLO), I can tell you that you were supposed to be charged that day for watching the event (albeit at $20 and not $150). If you were charged $150, then that is because you signed up for a yearly subscription and not a monthly subscription. No worries. People do that all the time. We can credit you back for the difference. Concerning us lying to your credit card company: nothing could be further from the truth. When dealing with credit card companies, we send in all of our documented records that indicate every step of your subscription process (with records, data) that they ask for. I can assure you that they prefer to side with the credit card holder in nearly every scenario so if they ruled in our favor, you didn't send them (or us) any documentation showing a cancelation date, record of charges, etc. Regardless, we will do our best to help you out here, man.

 

Thanks for hearing me out, guys! I/we at Flo take it personally when users are upset with our products/way of doing business. We are not perfect, but we believe we are getting better and better at what we do. We will work with anyone who is having problems on a case by case basis. For help, please email: molly@flocasts.com

 

Hope to see y'all in Des Moines for one of the greatest NCAA Tournaments ever!

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Glane, make sure to work with your CC Company. I had to send off documentation this morning that they did the same thing to me and then lied to the CC Company and said I never canceled. I wish I didn't have to waste this time but I'm not letting this go.

 

As an aside, I agree with most folks that their commentary is irritating. If I see those guys at Nationals I'll graciously let them know how disappointed I am and that I'm not alone. If they get their crap together I will once again give them a shot but in the meantime they're dead to me. 8-)

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I wonder how Flo treats different wrestling programs. I know for Flo to showcase your school to attract recruits, the cost was $2,500.

 

But when Flo goes to schools like Oklahoma State, Iowa, Minny, Cornell, shortly afterwards you always see new technique videos from them popping up on their technique wave so they are technically making money when they go to those schools on their TW side.

 

I know Rider had Flo come a couple of years ago and Hangey had some technique videos pop up. So does it cost Rider $2,500 and what does it cost Iowa and Okie State (they always have the best workout videos as well). Is it a similar situation with USAW that kids from "certain schools" get to go to the OTC for free sometimes while kids from the wrong school have to pay their way?

 

What does Flo charge say Clovis HS wrestling or Young Guns WC?

 

It is also interesting PSU doesn't get too caught up in the whole Flo thing while Iowa, Cornell and Okie State live by it. Brands will even throw out the whole "Go Flo" quote from time to time.

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Flo did the same type of thing to me. I subscribed so I could watch the all star event, and it kept re-billing after I cancelled. My wife pays our bills, so I didn't notice this until a week ago. I went and re-canceled. Hopefully it actually cancels this time.

 

Total BS that you keep getting billed after you cancel something. That is as shady as it gets. I will never subscribe to anything on their website again.

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