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Cletus_Tucker

Flo I am disappoint

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I wonder how Flo treats different wrestling programs. I know for Flo to showcase your school to attract recruits, the cost was $2,500.

 

But when Flo goes to schools like Oklahoma State, Iowa, Minny, Cornell, shortly afterwards you always see new technique videos from them popping up on their technique wave so they are technically making money when they go to those schools on their TW side.

 

I know Rider had Flo come a couple of years ago and Hangey had some technique videos pop up. So does it cost Rider $2,500 and what does it cost Iowa and Okie State (they always have the best workout videos as well). Is it a similar situation with USAW that kids from "certain schools" get to go to the OTC for free sometimes while kids from the wrong school have to pay their way?

 

What does Flo charge say Clovis HS wrestling or Young Guns WC?

 

It is also interesting PSU doesn't get too caught up in the whole Flo thing while Iowa, Cornell and Okie State live by it. Brands will even throw out the whole "Go Flo" quote from time to time.

 

Yeah, I've wondered the same thing about how they decide to cover certain schools versus others. I used to enjoy seeing less-known schools get some air-time on Flo, and have to admit that one of the main reasons I've stopped going to their website lately is because they seem to favor a few schools (Iowa, Cornell, etc.). If the less known, smaller, or new-program schools now have to pay to have Flo come visit them, then it's understandable why that type of content has decreased. Sometimes it leads me to wonder if they're acting more like fans or responsible journalists. It's great to be a fan, but when their bias is so apparent, it's really off-putting.

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I don't have any inside knowledge on any other school but I can say that we have never paid Flowrestling to do any coverage of Clovis High School. They have done so on their own dime and own merits.

 

I can understand people being frustrated with billing issues. I've been through that (not with Flo) and it's the worst. However, I think we are quick to forget what we had before Flo and I for one am grateful for what they've done with wrestling in less than a decade. I hope the other areas of their business continue to improve because as they do, wrestling and wrestling fans are the winners.

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I don't have any inside knowledge on any other school but I can say that we have never paid Flowrestling to do any coverage of Clovis High School. They have done so on their own dime and own merits.

 

I can understand people being frustrated with billing issues. I've been through that (not with Flo) and it's the worst. However, I think we are quick to forget what we had before Flo and I for one am grateful for what they've done with wrestling in less than a decade. I hope the other areas of their business continue to improve because as they do, wrestling and wrestling fans are the winners.

 

Adam, the techniques you shared with them were excellent. You are obviously a very good coach. I hope (assume) they pay for you for that.

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Here is Redcast menu, for Cornell sports:

 

Subscription packages (see pricing below) are broken up into the following options:

 

A yearly subscription (Best Value) allows users unlimited access to all live events and archived material for one year from the date of purchase.

A monthly subscription allows users unlimited access to all live events and archived material for one month from the date of purchase.

A pay-per-view pass allows users unlimited access to all live events and archived material on the date of purchase only.

A sport pass allows users unlimited access to all live events and archived material for a specific sport good for one year from the date of purchase.

 

The varied subscription packages also assure subscribers will not be automatically charged at any time other than the initial purchase (no automatic renewal each month, etc.).

 

Customers like to select from a variety of products that best suit their interests. Check out the part where they describe the type of billing the consumer can expect. Pick a product and pay. Done deal.

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I agree with Adam, you guys have to remember what is was like pre-flo. The website is incredible and has done huge things for the sport. If you don't like the auto-renew, I understand, cancel and fight the charges. They definitely need to change the auto-renew and cancelation policy but its some people's nature to publicly complain about a flaw in an outstanding product. If you don't like Flo go to the other website that covers as much wrestling as well as they do.....

 

As far as the technique wave goes, I am pretty sure the coaches and clinicians do it for free. Flo is a great way to gain exposure for your school and get coverage for your program, the price may be to show a couple of moves or maybe these fine coaches just want to do it for the good of the sport.

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The website is incredible and has done huge things for the sport. If you don't like the auto-renew, I understand, cancel and fight the charges. They definitely need to change the auto-renew and cancelation policy but its some people's nature to publicly complain about a flaw in an outstanding product. If you don't like Flo go to the other website that covers as much wrestling as well as they do.....

 

Jeje. So because you like the site, who cares if others sign up for one month and get charged for indefinitely. Totally different issues. The product should sell itself and people should be able to decide if they want to pay each month for it or not.

 

Your advice, just go through the minor inconvenience of calling the credit card every month or in Cletus's case, canceling your credit card altogether.

 

like other companies who do this (gyms and TV products) this is a deliberate business model.

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I can respect those who are defending flo for the breakthrough in providing live and recorded wrestling.

 

However, they immediately went from a very helpful platform to a model that is bordering on egregious. That's the problem. I wouldn't be surprised if they start seeing competition. Let the free market decide. My sense is that they really need to become customer-friendly or they won't be seeing much money coming in. Since they are now strictly a "for profit" business, they should expect some competition for our dollars in the not too distant future.

 

Bader and company pale in comparison to many commentators out there. I wish we could clone Jim Gibbons. :cry:

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BTW, I'm glad we are having this discussion. I hope the Flo guys read this thread and maybe they can step it up real quick and make things right for all of us who are caught in this $$ situation.

 

I'm already spending around 2K for my vacation/trip to Nationals.......

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For those saying until something better comes along, I think most people have focused more on their CBS and BTN streams that allow for a lot of duals under one package. Does flo even stream college duals anymore? The All-Star is the only dual I can think of this past year. With all that said, Rutgers has offered all of their home duals for free and that has been great for the sport. More schools are going in house and partnering with major media so I am not sure flo will continue to offer much on the college level. I think they are becoming more of a high school brand.

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For those saying until something better comes along, I think most people have focused more on their CBS and BTN streams that allow for a lot of duals under one package. Does flo even stream college duals anymore? The All-Star is the only dual I can think of this past year. With all that said, Rutgers has offered all of their home duals for free and that has been great for the sport. More schools are going in house and partnering with major media so I am not sure flo will continue to offer much on the college level. I think they are becoming more of a high school brand.

 

Once Rutgers officially becomes part of the B1G, you can forget about the free broadcasts.

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I agree with Adam, you guys have to remember what is was like pre-flo. The website is incredible and has done huge things for the sport. If you don't like the auto-renew, I understand, cancel and fight the charges. They definitely need to change the auto-renew and cancelation policy but its some people's nature to publicly complain about a flaw in an outstanding product. If you don't like Flo go to the other website that covers as much wrestling as well as they do...

 

I do remember what it was like pre flow. No wrestling site taking money right our from my account while not authorized or against my deliberate objection. No needing to cancel my card altogether. No worries actually that someone I'm supporting will be taking my money against my will, over and over again. Yes I remember those days like it was only yesterday. You were going somewhere with that I take it?

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CSTV broke my subscription cherry. I didn't see it coming at all and it took me several months to find it and a couple more to end it, after I cancelled my credit card. That was about 6-7 years ago now (pre-flo).

 

Then CBS-whatever bought out CSTV and I fell for it again. I had to cancel the credit card to end that one too.

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BTW, I'm glad we are having this discussion. I hope the Flo guys read this thread and maybe they can step it up real quick and make things right for all of us who are caught in this $$ situation.

 

I'm already spending around 2K for my vacation/trip to Nationals.......

 

I read what you wrote, and I already responded. Read my post on page one of this thread. It's hard to miss as it is rather lengthy. At the end of it, I respond directly to you. And I think you're off with your criticism of Bader's commentary. Most people love Bader's stuff. You're in the minority.

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ha ha ha idk who you are nick but there have been a ton of posts on here about how flow has horrid commentary and all bader does is shout I have talked to many people who say they don't like it but I guess it doesn't matter since I don't know many people that are on the site anymore gohio and the other side sides use to have a lot more college wrestling but other than vegas and the eiwa there isn't much to watch

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ha ha ha idk who you are nick but there have been a ton of posts on here about how flow has horrid commentary and all bader does is shout I have talked to many people who say they don't like it but I guess it doesn't matter since I don't know many people that are on the site anymore gohio and the other side sides use to have a lot more college wrestling but other than vegas and the eiwa there isn't much to watch

 

I'm guessing you're talking about live? cuz we do college coverages all over the country -every week of the season. We just don't have the rights to go live for everything we'd like to. I'm sure you watched the Southern Scuffle though. I'd put that live event above Vegas and EIWA's.

 

And, yes, we've read the dozens of posts on Bader's commentary on here. I don't think I'm off in believing that the creators of those critical posts represent a relatively small, atypical cross section of the wrestling market. Maybe your network of friends who don't like his commentary is far larger than the themat.com message boards though...

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Believe me Nik, I'm much more concerned about you ripping my money off. As you can tell, little old me ain't the only one.

 

I look forward to you improving your product as time goes by or your business opportunity will go bye bye.

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Believe me Nik, I'm much more concerned about you ripping my money off. As you can tell, little old me ain't the only one.

 

I look forward to you improving your product as time goes by or your business opportunity will go bye bye.

 

Ryan, I am personally looking into your case right now (at least I'm trying to). You mentioned on page one of this thread that you signed up for a yearly subscription ($150) on January 5th...I found only one Ryan who signed up on January 5th. And he did not sign up for a yearly subscription, $150. He signed up for a monthly subscription, $20. I'm guessing that you either got your dates wrong or the amount of the charge wrong....or maybe your name isn't really 'Ryan.' Maybe that's just your avatar. Perhaps you could private message me -letting me know who you are so I can check on this charge. I'm sure you weren't "ripped off." If you want me to help you with your subscription, get you a full refund, etc., then message me. I'd love to help you out, take care of your case before I head to Des Moines for Nationals. Otherwise, I'm going to have to refer you to Molly, our customer support specialist. She'll be able to work with you over an extended period of time.

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We seem to have (2) separate issues in this thread:

 

(1) Flo's coverage style: If you want to start a thread on the coverage style, and if it should or shouldn't include as much humor as it does, etc. Then, by all means, you should. I find the coverage entertaining. It would be interesting to see what others can contribute. The 'you're the man-handler, he's the pan-handler' stuff in the Maryland match (if I remember correctly), was pretty darn funny (but then got old). We won't always agree on what's funny... and that's OK. The Flo guys get to make the final call.

 

(2) Billing - There is much less gray area here. Again, if the thread is about the recurring billing (which I can't stand, personally) - then let's get that conversation started. CBS sports (mentioned above) has changed their policy, and it's a great improvement - far superior to flo's cancellation policy. We all want Flo to succeed, so if you have some constructive critcism, let's get it out there in a constructive way

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We seem to have (2) separate issues in this thread:

 

(1) Flo's coverage style: If you want to start a thread on the coverage style, and if it should or shouldn't include as much humor as it does, etc. Then, by all means, you should. I find the coverage entertaining. It would be interesting to see what others can contribute. The 'you're the man-handler, he's the pan-handler' stuff in the Maryland match (if I remember correctly), was pretty darn funny (but then got old). We won't always agree on what's funny... and that's OK. The Flo guys get to make the final call.

 

(2) Billing - There is much less gray area here. Again, if the thread is about the recurring billing (which I can't stand, personally) - then let's get that conversation started. CBS sports (mentioned above) has changed their policy, and it's a great improvement - far superior to flo's cancellation policy. We all want Flo to succeed, so if you have some constructive critcism, let's get it out there in a constructive way

 

Amen.

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Fellas in the past I have experienced this sort of thing with "other" companies like RedBox or Comcast etc... One great way to get around all the hassle of the auto billing is to go the gift card route... What I mean by this is if you get a $20 or $40 Visa gift card it will count as a credit card and than if you only want one month you have that amount on the card... This way you can cancel when you like and you know that you won't be billed "accidently"... I will say I've never used the pay options on FLO... So I haven't had a negative experience to report on... However I have paid for Intermat's premium service and it was issue free... I see alot of comments about how Flo used to be and I must admit that the new layout and all the pay for technique stuff gets kind of old... My reasoning behind this statement is this... Nothing pisses a consumer off more than when you either...

 

A.) Don't get what you pay for and are expecting a certain product or service...

B.) Thinking your account is good to go and that everything is "taken care of" after you go through the hassle of emailing or calling and actually speaking with someone to explain the situation and then they say how they understand and will take care of it only to see it was not taken care of or was not done so in the agreed about manor...

C.) Contact customer service about a billing issue only to have them try to upsell you a new service or product while apologizing about your situation... (Drives me crazy)

 

As it looks and sounds from some of the posts on this topic I see one of my three taking place more often with Flo... Now being a finance guy I'm all about free enterprise and making a living on ones own idea and hard work... So my advice is this to Flo and any other pay site... If you just put it out there FROM THE BEGINING regarding what we get with the service that we pay for and how the transaction takes place there would be more people on this forum pumping up FLO rather than complaining about it...

 

I agree tht FLO has done for wrestling what very few have or even tried to do yet one thing that the wrestling community won't take lightly is being taken advantage of or feeling slighted... (See Keep Olympic Wrestling Campaign) Now I'm not saying that FLO is currently doing either however I wont say that they aren't either...

 

Anywho... At the end of the day go to your local grocery story purchase the $20 gift card and problem is solved... Hope this helps fellas...

 

Shout out to Pat Milkovich the youngest NCAA wrestling champ in history... and my high school coach... and my good friend and high school teamate...former Mizzou Tiger JP Reese who has a fight coming up in April...

 

Never Settle

LowSingleOTW

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I'd like to thank Nick for his attention to some of the concerns posted here. I'd recommend separate subscriptions for technique wave with auto-renewals, and recommend a PPV option or event subscription for those of us who sign up for technique wave merely to watch the live event coverage.

 

Why not list schedule of dates and pending dates prior to the start of season and charge a season rate of something like $59.95 up front that covers Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb and March live event coverage (non-auto-renew). Then continue to charge a monthly or annual subscription for Technique wave with, and Technique wave without live event exposure at different rates for different levels of access.

 

This is not a FLO complaint, just a general comment. I paid $20 to watch part of the Scuffle and part of the high school event that was going on at the same time, and I paid $20 to watch part of the EIWA and part of the B1G. I also paid CBS all-access $14.95 / mo. for the months they cover wrestling and I pay the extra sports package rate (something like $12.95/mo.) with Directv to watch the B1G Network coverage. I'm paying over $45/month and the poor student athlete gets zip :roll:

Despite the expense 90% of my viewing pleasure is dedicated to internet steaming and all the headaches that go along with logging in, choppy data transfer, configuring larger flat screen through my HDMI port, etc. It would be nice to watch it all on HDTV in the living room. Such is the life of a non-revenue sport fan.

 

The other interesting point made here is that I didn't know that programs pay $2500 and up for special on-site coverage and YES it occurred to me that Cornell, tOSU, OSU, Iowa and even Minnie seem to be much more chummy with the coverage than programs like Penn State.

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Nick - Thanks for responding to this thread.

 

However, at this point it is looking like "Ryan" and a couple of others are just out to bash Flo. Nick has provided you with an avenue to try to help fix the apparent issues you've been having and you have ignored him only to complain more.

 

I'm on Flo everyday and I do remember what it was like without Flo - NOTHING. As a coach, and a fan, I have no problem with the $150 fee for a yearly subscription. To me, Wrestling is worth 40 cents a day, but thats just me.

 

As for people complaining about Bader - or the person who is pumping up Jim Gibbons lol - Bader has done/is doing more the sport of wrestling that 99% of people out there that call themselves wrestling fans. His commentating is great, his sense of humor is great, but you are right, when I want to be put to sleep I do prefer Gibbons and Johnson. The only thing better than Gibbons are the awesome student announcers we get on half of the big ten broadcasts. uggh..

 

Nick - FloWrestling - keep up the good work - The large majority of REAL wrestling fans love you for it.

 

This year at our State Meet in Ohio, Bader was there filming. I overheard a group in our section saying "I feel like a celebrity just walked into the building." I felt the same way - I don't know if Bader drinks beer or not, but I'd love to grab a cold one and talk wrestilng with him.

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I'd like to thank Nick for his attention to some of the concerns posted here. I'd recommend separate subscriptions for technique wave with auto-renewals, and recommend a PPV option or event subscription for those of us who sign up for technique wave merely to watch the live event coverage.

 

Why not list schedule of dates and pending dates prior to the start of season and charge a season rate of something like $59.95 up front that covers Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb and March live event coverage (non-auto-renew). Then continue to charge a monthly or annual subscription for Technique wave with, and Technique wave without live event exposure at different rates for different levels of access.

 

This is not a FLO complaint, just a general comment. I paid $20 to watch part of the Scuffle and part of the high school event that was going on at the same time, and I paid $20 to watch part of the EIWA and part of the B1G. I also paid CBS all-access $14.95 / mo. for the months they cover wrestling and I pay the extra sports package rate (something like $12.95/mo.) with Directv to watch the B1G Network coverage. I'm paying over $45/month and the poor student athlete gets zip :roll:

Despite the expense 90% of my viewing pleasure is dedicated to internet steaming and all the headaches that go along with logging in, choppy data transfer, configuring larger flat screen through my HDMI port, etc. It would be nice to watch it all on HDTV in the living room. Such is the life of a non-revenue sport fan.

 

The other interesting point made here is that I didn't know that programs pay $2500 and up for special on-site coverage and YES it occurred to me that Cornell, tOSU, OSU, Iowa and even Minnie seem to be much more chummy with the coverage than programs like Penn State.

 

Thanks for the constructive feedback, Skikayaker. We will seriously take your subscription package ideas into consideration. Here is a link to our current live schedule (I will continue to update it regularly so that users are able to forecast the events they'd like to sign up for): http://www.flowrestling.org/article/184 ... t-Schedule

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Nick - Thanks for responding to this thread.

 

However, at this point it is looking like "Ryan" and a couple of others are just out to bash Flo. Nick has provided you with an avenue to try to help fix the apparent issues you've been having and you have ignored him only to complain more.

 

I'm on Flo everyday and I do remember what it was like without Flo - NOTHING. As a coach, and a fan, I have no problem with the $150 fee for a yearly subscription. To me, Wrestling is worth 40 cents a day, but thats just me.

 

As for people complaining about Bader - or the person who is pumping up Jim Gibbons lol - Bader has done/is doing more the sport of wrestling that 99% of people out there that call themselves wrestling fans. His commentating is great, his sense of humor is great, but you are right, when I want to be put to sleep I do prefer Gibbons and Johnson. The only thing better than Gibbons are the awesome student announcers we get on half of the big ten broadcasts. uggh..

 

Nick - FloWrestling - keep up the good work - The large majority of REAL wrestling fans love you for it.

 

This year at our State Meet in Ohio, Bader was there filming. I overheard a group in our section saying "I feel like a celebrity just walked into the building." I felt the same way - I don't know if Bader drinks beer or not, but I'd love to grab a cold one and talk wrestilng with him.

 

Buckeye, personal message me. Maybe we can all meet up in b/t sessions at Des Moines. Bader, Joe and Willie Smalls are wrestling encyclopedias....Bader, in particular, is like a college wrestling guru. He's made me privy to much in that arena. If time allows, we'll try to run into you and talk some wrestling!

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Anybody remember just a couple years ago when the mention of flowrestling on these boards meant your post would be deleted? USA Wrestling wouldn't allow them at their events and deleted every post that mentioned Flowrestling.

 

Personally, I am very grateful for them. I am on their page almost every single day watching matches, learning what is going on in the wrestling world, etc.

 

I think Bader and Joe are very exciting with commentary. There will always be people who aren't happy.

 

Martin used to bug me a lot - especially with his interviews. Kinda glad it has improved since then.

 

Tech wave is great. I'm always trying to learn techniques to teach my kids so it was a blessing in disguise getting billed for the year. I just hope I remember to cancel it in a year.

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