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Dake to compete in Spain before wrestle off with Dieringer

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2 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

What are you not getting? It's not that hard to figure out. Sheesh.

TBar - i asked simple questions.  Trying to understand.   Can you not clearly answer them?

I believe the rules are in place to allow an injured medalist to heal and get back to good form before the wrestle off.  Simple as that.  

You disagree with that, I think.  And you disagree vehemently from what I’ve read earlier.  I don’t get it.  

You answering my questions with any additional amplifying info can help me to understand your point.

 

 

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12 hours ago, boconnell said:

They wrestled with both guys on equal rest and he lost.  Then they wrestled with uneven rest and he lost.  There was nothing raw about 2017 except for getting stuck behind an all-time great he wasn't as good as.

Well except Dake outwrestled him, had two pushouts to one and "lost" because the ref kept putting him on the shot clock while allowing JB to have his hand in Dake's face all match. When the competitors are close the subjectivity of freestyle rules will dictate the result. And I'm not the only one who thinks that. Just look at the comments on the YT video. JB was treated favorably. And people trying to pretend the old challenge tournament format was fair are delusional. Look I give JB all the credit in the world, but the system was a cheat. That's why they changed it.

As to the current controversy, what's is so bad about letting an injured wrestler recover from injury? It will be decided on the mat. 

  

Edited by iha

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6 hours ago, Molsen said:

Isn't the purpose to give the returning medalist a chance at the team though? You aren't giving them a chance if they have to wrestle right when they are eligible to wrestle. So either dont have the delay, or you have to allow for them to knock off the rust/get into wrestling shape. Otherwise there is literally 0 point in having the delay in the first place.

He can “knock off the rust” in practice, which again most people didn’t have a problem with.

If we knew he had to enter a competition 6 weeks before the match with Dieringer to “knock off the rust,” then they should’ve announced the delay earlier than right before Final X, since everyone knew he hadn’t wrestled an official match in awhile.

Edited by 1032004

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2 hours ago, iha said:

Well except Dake outwrestled him, had two pushouts to one and "lost" because the ref kept putting him on the shot clock while allowing JB to have his hand in Dake's face all match. When the competitors are close the subjectivity of freestyle rules will dictate the result. And I'm not the only one who thinks that. Just look at the comments on the YT video. JB was treated favorably. And people trying to pretend the old challenge tournament format was fair are delusional. Look I give JB all the credit in the world, but the system was a cheat. That's why they changed it.

As to the current controversy, what's is so bad about letting an injured wrestler recover from injury? It will be decided on the mat. 

  

Sorry.  I didn't realize that there were youtube comments.  I take back everything I said.

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9 hours ago, nom said:

TBar - i asked simple questions.  Trying to understand.   Can you not clearly answer them?

I believe the rules are in place to allow an injured medalist to heal and get back to good form before the wrestle off.  Simple as that.  

You disagree with that, I think.  And you disagree vehemently from what I’ve read earlier.  I don’t get it.  

You answering my questions with any additional amplifying info can help me to understand your point.

 

 

USA wrestling disagrees with you. They told Dake no.

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What is the big friggin deal?  The rule allowing for a delayed wreswtle off would make no sense unless it tookj into account both the time for healing and the time togt back in shape.  Getting in shape encompasses more than aerobic fitness.  The fact that he chooses to use a tourney to get him to where he needs to be (ie; competitive) should be absolutely irrelevant.

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6 minutes ago, RED said:

What is the big friggin deal?  The rule allowing for a delayed wreswtle off would make no sense unless it tookj into account both the time for healing and the time togt back in shape.  Getting in shape encompasses more than aerobic fitness.  The fact that he chooses to use a tourney to get him to where he needs to be (ie; competitive) should be absolutely irrelevant.

USA wrestling doesn’t agree with your stance. JB doesn’t agree with your stance. It clearly is a “big friggin deal”

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That's what this all seems to get down to .....  when an injured wrestler tries to get back to wrestling shape and get ready for the wrestle off, what is he allowed to do.  Seems like some do not want live matches.  If you are ok with live matches, it is irrelevant if it is in a competition or at OTC or at own room, or in the next state over.  Dake can treat every single one of these matches as the same way and what it is meant for .......... matches to get back to form.  

No one has been able to explain why a match in Spain is giving Dake an unfair advantage vs a match at the OTC or in Ithaca.  Still waiting to hear that.

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2 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

USA wrestling doesn’t agree with your stance. JB doesn’t agree with your stance. It clearly is a “big friggin deal”

Housebuye - I'm not getting it.  I get that the optics look bad but when you pause to think about it .... who cares where Dake is getting live wrestling matches.  Why should it matter?

Or do you feel that he cannot wrestle live until he wrestles Dieringer?

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6 minutes ago, nom said:

Housebuye - I'm not getting it.  I get that the optics look bad but when you pause to think about it .... who cares where Dake is getting live wrestling matches.  Why should it matter?

Or do you feel that he cannot wrestle live until he wrestles Dieringer?

You aren’t responding to the argument I made.

I also happen to think there is a significant difference between wrestling live in practice and competing. USA wrestling, JB, and many others hold the same position. 

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2 hours ago, nom said:

Housebuye - I'm not getting it.  I get that the optics look bad but when you pause to think about it .... who cares where Dake is getting live wrestling matches.  Why should it matter?

Or do you feel that he cannot wrestle live until he wrestles Dieringer?

Wrestling live matches in practice is not the same as wrestling official competition matches.  Otherwise I doubt he would have even done it.

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Wrestling live matches in practice is not the same as wrestling official competition matches.  Otherwise I doubt he would have even done it.
I was the worst wrestler on earth in the practice room.

I was at least the 10th worst come tournament time.

The matches simply arent the same.

That said, I still oppose the delay

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Ok - seems we are at the crux of it.  

Seems like some feel that Dake being ready to compete in Spain, even if he can treat it like exhibition — the matches have no meaning to him — is somehow giving him an unfair advantage and should NOT be permitted as part of his game plan to get back to top wrestling form in time for the wrestle off.

People are saying that the live competition is not the same as practice live.  I don’t disagree.  I do feel that Dake can easily treat these as only having one purpose, get back to wrestling shape.  Thus, these ARE practice to him.  

How this is unfair has yet to be explained by anyone.

 

  

 

 

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2 hours ago, Housebuye said:

You aren’t responding to the argument I made.

I also happen to think there is a significant difference between wrestling live in practice and competing. USA wrestling, JB, and many others hold the same position. 

Your argument was that USA wrestling didn’t want Dake to do it.  Right?  

My question is why?  I don’t get it.

I guess a good counter is that when a vote was taken 4 said Ok.  Which is more than the 3 that said no.  I win?

No.  I’m trying to get to the why on why some people say no.

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20 minutes ago, nom said:

Your argument was that USA wrestling didn’t want Dake to do it.  Right?  

My question is why?  I don’t get it.

I guess a good counter is that when a vote was taken 4 said Ok.  Which is more than the 3 that said no.  I win?

No.  I’m trying to get to the why on why some people say no.

I think the overall sentiment is: 
He knew he had a set date for a wrestle off he claimed to be too injured to compete at, in general (in most sports), if you can't compete that's the end of it you lose. 
Not the case here....
His injury appeared to be a little older, and he seemed to have had time to recover but then apparently he won't be able to compete (doctors orders? as some have said) until the 17th of Aug. 
Then he goes and competes. 

Everyone wants the "best team" out there (I hate how often I see that as people's main argument) 
But this isn't a matter of the #1 guy in the World as a rep or My Fat A$$ going out there.... 
It's legit closer to 1A and 1B.... 

Yes Gamesmanship, within the rules, etc etc... it's all fine... it's already been settled, who cares anymore. 

But it's simply bad form, uncouth, unpalatable, etc... 
He's had time, he is obviously "able" to compete... I think most people think "Any other wrestler would strap em up"

Yeah yeah some of you weirdos will say, "So just because he wont, strap them up, and wrestle at a disadvantage he is somehow a bad guy?"
To which I reply, "Eat a Richard, if he wasn't ready in the normal time frame, switch your damn focus to the Olympics, he's a great wrestler but it's an unnecessary kink in the process."

 

Edited by spladle08

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6 hours ago, 1032004 said:

He can “knock off the rust” in practice, which again most people didn’t have a problem with.

If we knew he had to enter a competition 6 weeks before the match with Dieringer to “knock off the rust,” then they should’ve announced the delay earlier than right before Final X, since everyone knew he hadn’t wrestled an official match in awhile.

Wrestling live matches is not the same as wrestling competitive actual matches. Trying to knock off the rust in practice, without any sort of real competitive match puts the wrestler at a big disadvantage, Which, i guess, in this situation is what people want. If the goal is to give the returning medalist a shot at making the team, give him a real shot, or dont have a delay. Its that simple.

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14 minutes ago, nom said:

@spladle08 - ok.  So once ready to wrestle .. go!  You don’t need time to get back to form.  Your opinion.  I respect it.

Yeah, if you're going to "need time" adjust your time frame to fit your event. 

Hurdle- I sleep at night
Event- Work by 4:30am
Time to prepare = 30 minutes
Adjustment- I set my alarm for 3:30am 

I feel like if  this is his situation and he can't be "ready" by the time the event is taking place, he should just miss the event. 
I can't be more clear that, this is also how the people annoyed by the situation feel. No conspiracies or wanting a bad team.
It's just what people prefer. It's like, is there a chance they will push back Worlds if he wins the wrestle-off but re-tweaks it 

Hurdle- Injury 
Event- Final X
Time to prepare = had 9 months needs 11
Adjustment- move up "Recovery time" or skip the event for 2019 and focus on 2020

 

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Ok. So Final X date is the date.  No accommodations for injured medalists. I can be on board for that.

I would point out that the current system has a final date as right before departure for World’s acclimation camp (right?) in the case of injured medalists.  This is very similar.  There is a do or die date.

All good.  Peace.

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13 minutes ago, nom said:

Ok. So Final X date is the date.  No accommodations for injured medalists. I can be on board for that.

I would point out that the current system has a final date as right before departure for World’s acclimation camp (right?) in the case of injured medalists.  This is very similar.  There is a do or die date.

All good.  Peace.

Yeah peace. 
Note: the accommodation for medalist should only be Bye to Final X
Not a spare car if theirs breaks down.
Coupons for free meals if they can't afford their favorite restaurants.  
A social media campaign manager because they can't stand trolls. 
Etc etc. 
You place at Worlds, you get a pass to Final X while you rehab possible injuries
Peace

Edited by spladle08

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9 hours ago, nom said:

Your argument was that USA wrestling didn’t want Dake to do it.  Right?  

My question is why?  I don’t get it.

I guess a good counter is that when a vote was taken 4 said Ok.  Which is more than the 3 that said no.  I win?

No.  I’m trying to get to the why on why some people say no.

Because the delay is for recovering from injury.  There are various levels of WTF going on here IMO:

1.  Wrestling live matches in practice is fine, but you shouldn’t need to compete in something else in order recover from an injury

2.  Even if you do need to compete in something else first, that shouldn’t have to be 6 weeks before the match that got delayed

3.  If you did need to compete in something else first, you should have announced and agreed to that sooner

Edited by 1032004

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just admit that you are making these objections up from your own gut and that they have no formal basis in any rule or previous interpretation of a rule

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