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Dake to compete in Spain before wrestle off with Dieringer

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13 minutes ago, RajaThaiKnee said:


My thoughts exactly...what if he conveniently gets “injured” competing in Spain? Then he brings in more lawyers? Wrestles off in September? I want Ringer to have the maximum amount of time to train for the World Championship if he beats Dake (which is a real possibility imo). It’s one thing to think the system is unfair. It’s a completely different thing to game the system with a last minute injury, and compete in a major tournament before the date when your injury is healed up. This is some Shady, Entitlement, Lawyer BS....and they are gaming the system that was already set in place and favored Dake.

 

Yeah, doesn't make you feel good to know that the amateur sport you love is being subjected to a bunch of lawyering. 

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I wasn't positioning JB as milking the system (though I can see how that was interpreted from my last post). I was trying to comment on drake's next level ability to complain and throw tantrums that what he had to battle was unfair but then proceeds to take that unfair edge to the next level first chance he gets. I really want to see dieringer get the w in 2 matches at this point.

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3 minutes ago, Chet said:

If Dake brings home a Spanish Grand Prix title he may finally get the nod in a fantasy matchup with DT. I support this decision.

If he does he'll join DT on the illustrious list of champions of both the Spain Grand Prix, AND Paris Grand Prix.  The proverbial "Grand Slam" of international competition.  

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3 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Yeah, doesn't make you feel good to know that the amateur sport you love is being subjected to a bunch of lawyering

 

What is the definition of lawyering? How do you know that Dake has lawyers involved? If by chance he does, wouldn’t they be determining that competing before the AD match is perfectly legal? As far as gaming the system, this is done by many in various situations is it not? Seems all objectivity is lost whenever a guy does it that someone is rooting against. 

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3 minutes ago, DoubleHalf said:

If I may, how do you have all this inside information of when and how he uses lawyers? Again just curious if you know things the rest of us don’t based on your insights into Kolls legal affairs.

They reported this on FRL. I am taking them at their word that they know. By all means call that out claiming FRL doesn't know anything. Doesn't matter to me. I hope you think arguing this to death helps make Koll and Cornell look better. That will just make people remember Koll got lawyers involved. 

Btw, Koll himself brought up LAWYERS in an interview with Dernlan on the Rudis podcast. Koll mentioned lawyers. Not hard to presume FRL knows what they are talking about here. Maybe you should tell Koll to get some more lawyers to threaten to sue the Internet for mentioning the lawyer community he already mentioned. 

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TBar-  Take it easy brotha, I was just asking a question. I don’t have any association with Cornell and quite frankly have never even stepped foot on their campus so I doubt anyone from their Ivy League institution would listen to what I have to say. I’m just playing devils advocate to point out a glaring bias you have against all that is Cornell. 

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5 minutes ago, DoubleHalf said:

TBar-  Take it easy brotha, I was just asking a question. I don’t have any association with Cornell and quite frankly have never even stepped foot on their campus so I doubt anyone from their Ivy League institution would listen to what I have to say. I’m just playing devils advocate to point out a glaring bias you have against all that is Cornell. 

I do have that right now and fully accept that. I just don't like the idea of running to lawyers to get what you want on the field of play. Not in any sport. 

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4 minutes ago, DoubleHalf said:

TBar-  Take it easy brotha, I was just asking a question. I don’t have any association with Cornell and quite frankly have never even stepped foot on their campus so I doubt anyone from their Ivy League institution would listen to what I have to say. I’m just playing devils advocate to point out a glaring bias you have against all that is Cornell. 

Don’t feel intimidated by Cornell. Its basically like Rice or UCLA, except it has that agriculture college attached to it. 

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This entire post is lol-qble.

He has proven to be our best at 79.

If he needs a small tourney to shake out the rust so he is closer to 100% against the world #2 in Ringer, then I am all for it.

I want our best shot to win worlds at 79 just as I do 86 or any other weight. More world titles means better chance at a team title. Which is why I would prefer Nickal and Dake-Ringer loser face off to meet Downey. Downey could very well win that mini-tourney and shake all doubters. I don't think he would.

I am more confident in a 100% Dake to beat whoever Russia sends than I am Ringer. Ringer can horse with the best of them, and may be better than everyone at the weight at that, but Dake has that extra something that pushes him over the Rooskies.

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What if Dakes recovery was going better then expected, which is why the doctor cleared him early? Also if Dake gets injured Dieringer gets the spot anyways. Dieringer is an amazing talent and doesnt need Dake to be rusty to earn the spot. As for not caring whether dake is healthy or not, Dieringer likely believes he will win anyway. Beating a rusty Dake, doesnt show that your ready to win a gold medal. Beating a healthy dake does. And whoever ends up with the spot, that is likely the expectation of the fanbase, so might as well wrestle the best version of Dake you can.

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1 hour ago, Katie said:

What exactly did JB “milk”?

It seems to me he played by the rules, including by winning the US Open in 2011 and 2017 in order to earn byes to the WTT finals.

Is JB supposed to reject the qualification process to satisfy his competitors’ fans?

This is the difference.  JB  wasn't playing games. Kyle Dake is.

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20 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

This entire post is lol-qble.

He has proven to be our best at 79.

If he needs a small tourney to shake out the rust so he is closer to 100% against the world #2 in Ringer, then I am all for it.

I want our best shot to win worlds at 79 just as I do 86 or any other weight. More world titles means better chance at a team title. Which is why I would prefer Nickal and Dake-Ringer loser face off to meet Downey. Downey could very well win that mini-tourney and shake all doubters. I don't think he would.

I am more confident in a 100% Dake to beat whoever Russia sends than I am Ringer. Ringer can horse with the best of them, and may be better than everyone at the weight at that, but Dake has that extra something that pushes him over the Rooskies.

So why even make Dake wrestle off for the spot? Let's just give it to him. 

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This is not a good look for Dake at all.  If he's healthy enough to wrestle in Spain, he should be mandated to have the wrestle off now.  The winner needs maximum prep time to peak for world's.  I want the best team to compete, and I hope that Ringer is that guy now.

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Doesn't matter if he's the best in the world or not it's making a mockery of the system. Not one of you who think it's okay wouldn't change your tune in a second if it was your kid rather than Dieringer who was waiting in the wings. And by the way when you moan and bitch, cry, etc.that the system is unfair and then you game the system or just out-and-out cheat, that's supposed to be okay? I think the word is hypocrite! 

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4 hours ago, Jon_Kozak said:

The system is set up to favor guys who have already proven to be the best in the world. Dake was on the wrong side of that system for years and complained about it being unfair. Now he’s taking advantage of being a defending world champion and the advantages that come with that.

Correct, but I see more to it than that. 

The qualification system is definitely set up to favor those who have established themselves as the best is the same competition that is being qualified for.  A reasonable policy choice.

Dake was clearly disadvantaged by this for years.  He was very close to Burroughs and would have had a better chance without Burroughs' bye (for at least two reasons -- Dake worn out before wrestled fresh Burroughs; Burroughs could have lost before the finals).  

Dake is now taking advantage of the system.  OK.  But this is a qualitatively different advantage.  The challengers all know going in what the rules are.  This means the medalist gets a bye while the challengers have to fight it out, they have to -- and can -- plan around that.

But the challenger also sets up his training to wrestle on a certain date, which for this challenger has now been disrupted, shortly before that date.  And the challenger, if he ends up being the guy, would be better off for training purposes not having become the guy in mid-August.  Burroughs took advantage of none of that.  

Also, I think it's important to note that the Final X format (I assume) was designed to be LESS advantageous to the reigning medalist by letting a properly rested challenger face the top guy, as compared to what Dake had to do against Burroughs at the same tournament where he had(a earned the challenge spot.  So Dake is taking far more extreme advantage of the system at a time when the intent of the framers of that system is to lessen the defending medalist's advantages.

None of this is directly contradictory to your point that the system hurt Dake before and he's simply exploiting it to his advantage now.  But I think there is important context (in addition to what people are saying about doctor notes and lawyers) that explains why many are pretty riled up.  I say all this as a big fan of Dake.

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2 minutes ago, Perry said:

I enjoyed flo bringing up another memorable gaming of the system - nick marable allegedly falling off the treadmill and getting a concussion in advance of his match with green. Thankfully green went on to win the spot, let's hope things play out similarly for Alex here

If you think about it, a guy could be completely 100 percent healthy and show up with a doctor's note and get away with this type of gaming. All you need is a willing doctor to play along. 

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This idea that Dake may have been better than JB in 2013, 2015, and/or 2017 is getting ridiculous. 

In 2013 JB got a bye to the WTT finals as a returning medalist. In the finals, he went 2-0 against Dake, including a tech. Not close.

In 2015 JB got a bye to the WTT finals as a returning medalist. In the finals, he went 2-0 against Dake, including a tech. Not close.

In 2017 JB was not a returning medalist. He beat Dake at the US Open to get a bye to the WTT finals. Then he beat Dake two out of three times at the WTTs. There was no question JB was better that year.

Yet this myth that Dake may have been better lives on.

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5 hours ago, Jon_Kozak said:

The system is set up to favor guys who have already proven to be the best in the world. Dake was on the wrong side of that system for years and complained about it being unfair. Now he’s taking advantage of being a defending world champion and the advantages that come with that.

An un-scored upon defending champ who teched his way into the finals.

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