VakAttack 1,934 Report post Posted July 2 This feels....awful. And I say that as a huge Dake fan. 2 ConnorsDad and Housebuye reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GockeS 238 Report post Posted July 2 5 hours ago, Coach_J said: ^^^^This^^^^^ isn't that a bit hypocritical? do as i say, not as i do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CoachWrestling 252 Report post Posted July 2 2 hours ago, nhs67 said: This entire post is lol-qble. He has proven to be our best at 79. If he needs a small tourney to shake out the rust so he is closer to 100% against the world #2 in Ringer, then I am all for it. I want our best shot to win worlds at 79 just as I do 86 or any other weight. More world titles means better chance at a team title. Which is why I would prefer Nickal and Dake-Ringer loser face off to meet Downey. Downey could very well win that mini-tourney and shake all doubters. I don't think he would. I am more confident in a 100% Dake to beat whoever Russia sends than I am Ringer. Ringer can horse with the best of them, and may be better than everyone at the weight at that, but Dake has that extra something that pushes him over the Rooskies. This entire post is lol-able So you are okay with manipulating the system to make it easier for someone? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbert 556 Report post Posted July 2 1 hour ago, Cradle1 said: An un-scored upon defending champ who teched his way into the Who is also a coward, just like his coach Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bigredcard 0 Report post Posted July 2 1 hour ago, Katie said: This idea that Dake may have been better than JB in 2013, 2015, and/or 2017 is getting ridiculous. In 2013 JB got a bye to the WTT finals as a returning medalist. In the finals, he went 2-0 against Dake, including a tech. Not close. In 2015 JB got a bye to the WTT finals as a returning medalist. In the finals, he went 2-0 against Dake, including a tech. Not close. In 2017 JB was not a returning medalist. He beat Dake at the US Open to get a bye to the WTT finals. Then he beat Dake two out of three times at the WTTs. There was no question JB was better that year. Yet this myth that Dake may have been better lives on. So... they faced off once on equal footing, and Dake lost by criteria, having scored the only offensive points, with both JB's points coming from the shot clock (two of which were called against Dake; none against JB). So yeah; it might not be a completely "ridiculous" "myth". Granted that others have overcome the "bye" advantage (like Gilman). But, in any case, there's at least an argument that "all things being equal" they were pretty equal for some of those years. (This has nothing to do with current topic--just annoys me to read hyperbolic stuff losing touch with reality.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Housebuye 1,750 Report post Posted July 2 6 hours ago, Jon_Kozak said: The system is set up to favor guys who have already proven to be the best in the world. Dake was on the wrong side of that system for years and complained about it being unfair. Now he’s taking advantage of being a defending world champion and the advantages that come with that. Dake is cheating. USA wrestling told him no, so Dake threatened a law suit and USA wrestling decided it wasn’t worth it. The reason Dake got an extension is because he had a doctors note saying he couldn’t compete until August 17th. Either that is a lie, or it isn’t. If it’s a lie, he should wrestleoff ASAP. If he is too injured to wrestle off, he is too injured to wrestle. He is taking advantage of a rule designed to protect injured medalists. I’m a Dake fan. I like him a lot. This is shady and he is losing any goodwill he had left. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Molsen 71 Report post Posted July 2 How dare Dake try to give himself a chance! He should wrestle Dieringer at a disadvantage! What a cheater trying to knock off rust after being injured and not wrestling all year. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Housebuye 1,750 Report post Posted July 2 4 hours ago, buckeyehomer said: I feel like a dumbass here because I seem to be the only one who has no problem with this? Dude is a returning world champ. I feel like anyone who has a problem with it just knows Ringer ain't beating him at 100%... This is a ridiculous argument. Come on man. Returning world champs can just pick when they wrestle off now? That clearly wasn’t the intention of the rule. It is only happening because Dake threatened USA wrestling. 1 CoachWrestling reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Housebuye 1,750 Report post Posted July 2 3 hours ago, DoubleHalf said: What is the definition of lawyering? How do you know that Dake has lawyers involved? If by chance he does, wouldn’t they be determining that competing before the AD match is perfectly legal? As far as gaming the system, this is done by many in various situations is it not? Seems all objectivity is lost whenever a guy does it that someone is rooting against. I was and still am rooting for Dake. You can’t negate an argument by claiming bias without any evidence for bias. Dake has lawyers involved. He threatened USA wrestling if they didn’t let him wrestle. What he is doing is 100% against the intention of the rule, and likely against the rule itself. We won’t know because Dake took advantage of the fact that USA wrestling doesn’t want to spend the funds nor risk the ire of the USA Olympic body, so they backed off. There is gaming the system (not telling anyone he wouldn’t wrestling at FinalX until the last minute) and then there is “I have a doctors note saying I’m not cleared until August 17th.” Ok wrestle off scheduled. “Just kidding. I’m wrestling in July. If you say no I’ll sue you. I’ll just get another doctor’s note” Dake is being shady. He likely is now going to ruin this process for every other returning medalist going forward. 3 wildcatfan1992, CoachWrestling and ConnorsDad reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBar1977 3,141 Report post Posted July 2 3 minutes ago, Housebuye said: This is a ridiculous argument. Come on man. Returning world champs can just pick when they wrestle off now? That clearly wasn’t the intention of the rule. It is only happening because Dake threatened USA wrestling. C'mon, there are a lot of underemployed lawyers out there. Dake is just keeping the local bar in good stead. 1 Housebuye reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Housebuye 1,750 Report post Posted July 2 3 hours ago, nhs67 said: This entire post is lol-qble. He has proven to be our best at 79. If he needs a small tourney to shake out the rust so he is closer to 100% against the world #2 in Ringer, then I am all for it. I want our best shot to win worlds at 79 just as I do 86 or any other weight. More world titles means better chance at a team title. Which is why I would prefer Nickal and Dake-Ringer loser face off to meet Downey. Downey could very well win that mini-tourney and shake all doubters. I don't think he would. I am more confident in a 100% Dake to beat whoever Russia sends than I am Ringer. Ringer can horse with the best of them, and may be better than everyone at the weight at that, but Dake has that extra something that pushes him over the Rooskies. None of this is relevant, unless you are fine with the USA wrestling coaches picking the team and not honoring the trials. Don’t you want our best team? Do you really think Downey is our best guy at 86kg? I assume then you would support USA wrestling picking Bo Nickal to rep us at 86kg. He is way more likely to medal and that’s what matters, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
osufan12 16 Report post Posted July 2 8 minutes ago, Molsen said: How dare Dake try to give himself a chance! He should wrestle Dieringer at a disadvantage! What a cheater trying to knock off rust after being injured and not wrestling all year. Let's let Dake just pick who he wants to wrestle against. Scratch that, let's just let him decide whatever process gives him the best chance to win. Who cares about Ringer in the whole process. 2 Housebuye and Ultimatepip reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Housebuye 1,750 Report post Posted July 2 3 hours ago, Molsen said: What if Dakes recovery was going better then expected, which is why the doctor cleared him early? Also if Dake gets injured Dieringer gets the spot anyways. Dieringer is an amazing talent and doesnt need Dake to be rusty to earn the spot. As for not caring whether dake is healthy or not, Dieringer likely believes he will win anyway. Beating a rusty Dake, doesnt show that your ready to win a gold medal. Beating a healthy dake does. And whoever ends up with the spot, that is likely the expectation of the fanbase, so might as well wrestle the best version of Dake you can. If that’s the case, he should wrestleoff early. The delay is only allowed for injuries. If he isn’t injured, he should wrestleoff ASAP. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBar1977 3,141 Report post Posted July 2 (edited) 3 minutes ago, osufan12 said: Let's let Dake just pick who he wants to wrestle against. Scratch that, let's just let him decide whatever process gives him the best chance to win. Who cares about Ringer in the whole process. Ringer is obviously a second class wrestler compared to Dake, an unimportant foil in Dake's shadow, or so one would think watching all this chicanery. Edited July 2 by TBar1977 1 osufan12 reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Housebuye 1,750 Report post Posted July 2 (edited) Dr. Marc Siegel about fake doctor notes ”A doctor's signature on a sick form is in the same category as his signature to a prescription. In the case of the fake note, he is prescribing rest or several days off to someone he doesn't know as a form of political protest. Using our medical powers in this way is a distortion that dilutes the essential meaning of these powers.” Who is this doctor that is willing to forge notes for Dake? Sounds like a state medical board ethics investigation is warranted Edited July 2 by Housebuye Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Housebuye 1,750 Report post Posted July 2 15 minutes ago, Molsen said: How dare Dake try to give himself a chance! He should wrestle Dieringer at a disadvantage! What a cheater trying to knock off rust after being injured and not wrestling all year. I’m glad we agree that he is a cheater 2 Ultimatepip and tbert reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Housebuye 1,750 Report post Posted July 2 Imagine if anyone was doing to Dake what he is doing to Ringer. He would be complaining about it non stop. 2 wrestlingphish and GockeS reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hammerlockthree 1,500 Report post Posted July 2 You guys are just now figuring out how this system works? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Katie 610 Report post Posted July 2 21 minutes ago, Bigredcard said: So... they faced off once on equal footing, and Dake lost by criteria, having scored the only offensive points, with both JB's points coming from the shot clock (two of which were called against Dake; none against JB). So yeah; it might not be a completely "ridiculous" "myth". Granted that others have overcome the "bye" advantage (like Gilman). But, in any case, there's at least an argument that "all things being equal" they were pretty equal for some of those years. (This has nothing to do with current topic--just annoys me to read hyperbolic stuff losing touch with reality.) Again, JB teched Dake in 2013 and 2015. Then he beat him out in 2017 after going through a very fair process. All the excuses are getting out of hand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Housebuye 1,750 Report post Posted July 2 1 minute ago, hammerlockthree said: You guys are just now figuring out how this system works? What do you mean? How the injury delay works for returning medalists? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hammerlockthree 1,500 Report post Posted July 2 USA Wrestling is trying to pick the team. Thats how they've organized this process. I don't know why all of a sudden they would drop their laziness and cronyism in favor of fairness and transparency. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coach_J 1,828 Report post Posted July 2 1 hour ago, GockeS said: isn't that a bit hypocritical? do as i say, not as i do? The "system" has been gamed for decades (go back to Lewboo/Smith and take it up to Marable's "concussion"). The only ones who deserve any special treatment for extenuating circumstances are the proven competitors (returned World/Olympic medalists). Dake has earned that. The issue here is that there is no stipulation that someone granted an extension cannot compete until the wrestle-off takes place. If you have a problem, it's with USA Wrestling and vague rules and not with Dake, Koll, Yanni, the Boogie-Man, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildcatfan1992 47 Report post Posted July 2 My solution to all this is have one tournament (US Open) and have the winner rep us at Worlds/Olympics. If somebody is injured and can't compete, too damn bad, see you next year. Defending NCAA champs aren't given a bye to the NCAA finals the next year even though they "have earned it." I think it is a convoluted process that needs some serious tweaking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VakAttack 1,934 Report post Posted July 2 I don't know how anybody could really defend this. He has told us that he is unable to wrestle until 8/17 due to an injury, and that's why the wrestleoff had to be pushed. Now he wants to wrestle this weekend? That's patently unfair to Ringer. The phenomenon of getting the wrestleoff pushed is already something I'm not super comfortable with, but this is even worse. Part of sports is being healthy and competing on the day of the competition. They're certainly not moving the World Championships back if Dake is still feeling tender. 3 osufan12, wildcatfan1992 and TBar1977 reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scribe 1,616 Report post Posted July 2 48 minutes ago, Housebuye said: Dr. Marc Siegel about fake doctor notes ”A doctor's signature on a sick form is in the same category as his signature to a prescription. In the case of the fake note, he is prescribing rest or several days off to someone he doesn't know as a form of political protest. Using our medical powers in this way is a distortion that dilutes the essential meaning of these powers.” Who is this doctor that is willing to forge notes for Dake? Sounds like a state medical board ethics investigation is warranted Dake has a bone spur 1 Housebuye reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
